Regaining Salvation...

[Douglas Summers]

believer had faith.. But a believer without faith, was at joy with the Gospel message, but did not put their faith in God.(John 12:42). Putting your faith in Christ also comes with a verbal confession. A verbal confession in the born again is not from the mouth alone, but starts from the heart (Romans 10:8-13) There is nothing confusing about that Scripture. Notice (Matt.16:13-20) God reveals Himself to those He calls, not to those who join. Salvation is a Godly manifestation, not a Carnal imagination. Matt. 10:32, Christ here is talking about confessing Him before men. Confessing Jesus before men is no just His name, but confession is telling of Christ and His doctrine of eternal life and the Kingdom of the heavens.

The Scriptures make clear the difference between mere Professors and Believers. From the very beginning in the Garden of Eden, even until now, there have been those who professed to be Godly or saved (but in fact were not) and this will continue until the end of the ages. It is called a mixed multitude (Ex. 12:37-38).

BELIEVERS are saved -------------------------------------------------------------- PROFESSORS are lost

• Luke 7:50 Acts 8:13, 21
• Acts 2:42 1 John 2:19
• John 10:27, 29 Matt. 12:43-45
• John 6:37, 39 John 6:64-66
• Matt. 25:10 Matt. 25:11-12
• Rom. 3:22 Matt. 23:28, 33
• Rev. 19:7-8 Matt. 22:11, 13

Believers are rewarded ------------------------------------------------------------- Professors are condemned

• Matt. 25: 19-23 Matt. 25:24-30
• Luke 12:42-44 Luke 12:45-47
• Col. 3:24 Matt. 7:22, 13

These are just a few to study.

Yes, The enemy planted bad seed among the wheat, but the tares are those who believed Satan rather than God and sat right in the midst of the congregation. It was the Lord Himself who planted the good seed. But the Lord says let them grow together (hoping that the tares might repent. (The Lord always gives man time to repent). So the congregation was filled with the SAVED and the UNSAVED.

Here is the question I would like you to answer. If you do not trust the Lord to bring you to His promise of escape from The Wrath of God, or Judgment and to eternal life in a new heaven and earth and has offered you a position as a Son of God and Brother of Christ, How are you going to Get There? And if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you do not trust Christ that said, NO one can take us out of His hands and the Gates of Hell could not came against His Church?

 

[Douglas Summers]

There is a difference between a born again believer, and just a believer. The born again believer had faith.. But a believer without faith, was at joy with the Gospel message, but did not put their faith in God.(John 12:42). Putting your faith in Christ also comes with a verbal confession. A verbal confession in the born again is not from the mouth alone, but starts from the heart (Romans 10:8-13) There is nothing confusing about that Scripture. Notice (Matt.16:13-20) God reveals Himself to those He calls, not to those who join. Salvation is a Godly manifestation, not a Carnal imagination. Matt. 10:32, Christ here is talking about confessing Him before men. Confessing Jesus before men is no just His name, but confession is telling of Christ and His doctrine of eternal life and the Kingdom of the heavens.

The Scriptures make clear the difference between mere Professors and Believers. From the very beginning in the Garden of Eden, even until now, there have been those who professed to be Godly or saved (but in fact were not) and this will continue until the end of the ages. It is called a mixed multitude (Ex. 12:37-38).

BELIEVERS are saved -------------------------------------------------------------- PROFESSORS are lost

• Luke 7:50 Acts 8:13, 21
• Acts 2:42 1 John 2:19
• John 10:27, 29 Matt. 12:43-45
• John 6:37, 39 John 6:64-66
• Matt. 25:10 Matt. 25:11-12
• Rom. 3:22 Matt. 23:28, 33
• Rev. 19:7-8 Matt. 22:11, 13

Believers are rewarded ------------------------------------------------------------- Professors are condemned

• Matt. 25: 19-23 Matt. 25:24-30
• Luke 12:42-44 Luke 12:45-47
• Col. 3:24 Matt. 7:22, 13

These are just a few to study.

Yes, The enemy planted bad seed among the wheat, but the tares are those who believed Satan rather than God and sat right in the midst of the congregation. It was the Lord Himself who planted the good seed. But the Lord says let them grow together (hoping that the tares might repent. (The Lord always gives man time to repent). So the congregation was filled with the SAVED and the UNSAVED.

Here is the question I would like you to answer. If you do not trust the Lord to bring you to His promise of escape from The Wrath of God, or Judgment and to eternal life in a new heaven and earth and has offered you a position as a Son of God and Brother of Christ, How are you going to Get There? And if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you do not trust Christ that said, NO one can take us out of His hands and the Gates of Hell could not came against His Church?

 

[JLB]

Because it (salvation) does most certainly depend on what it is exactly that a person believes. As I said, and as I gave examples for. And it's not shameful to say so, as you claim.

Believing the Gospel, not some other thing, is how we are saved.

You, trying to distract from the simple and plain truth that Jesus taught us, by attempting to redirect the discussing about "other things" that we can believe, that are most certainly not about the context of believing the Gospel, which is what Jesus is teaching from Luke 8:13, is a shameful attempt at trying to "muddy the water" about the plain and clear truth that Jesus taught from this parable.

You tried to imply that the first example, did believe, but just didn't

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Believe is the prerequisite for being saved.
These in the second example did in fact believe. But only endured for a while. They didn't endure to the end.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

Believe = Saved
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21

You can't get around it, or change this truth, from it's context.

Depends on what, exactly, a person believed in. For example. If a person believes for a while that Jesus has not risen, then becomes an atheist, this person is still not saved. Never was saved. A person must believe in the true and complete Gospel to become saved.

Another example is a person that believes for a while that being a 'christian' means to never experience trials and testing. Then that person experiences trials and testings and becomes an atheist. This person is still not saved. Never was. A person must believe in the True and complete Gospel to become saved. Nothing else saves a person under the New Covenant.

So your saying, those in the second example, were never saved, even though they believed?

That's the opposite of what your buddy Freegrace teaches. He teaches that these were saved and continue to be saved, because it's impossible for them to become "unborn again", which as I recall you agreed with him.

How many variations of OSAS is there?

Besides, You are adding your own requirements to what Jesus said... lest they believe, and are saved.

The Gospel, that Jesus preached is the true Gospel, unless you have some requirements to add to the Gospel, then believing the Gospel is how Jesus said those are to be saved in His teaching.

The second group believed... for a while.



JLB

 

[JLB]

believer had faith.. But a believer without faith, was at joy with the Gospel message, but did not put their faith in God.(John 12:42). Putting your faith in Christ also comes with a verbal confession. A verbal confession in the born again is not from the mouth alone, but starts from the heart (Romans 10:8-13) There is nothing confusing about that Scripture. Notice (Matt.16:13-20) God reveals Himself to those He calls, not to those who join. Salvation is a Godly manifestation, not a Carnal imagination. Matt. 10:32, Christ here is talking about confessing Him before men. Confessing Jesus before men is no just His name, but confession is telling of Christ and His doctrine of eternal life and the Kingdom of the heavens.

The Scriptures make clear the difference between mere Professors and Believers. From the very beginning in the Garden of Eden, even until now, there have been those who professed to be Godly or saved (but in fact were not) and this will continue until the end of the ages. It is called a mixed multitude (Ex. 12:37-38).

BELIEVERS are saved -------------------------------------------------------------- PROFESSORS are lost

• Luke 7:50 Acts 8:13, 21
• Acts 2:42 1 John 2:19
• John 10:27, 29 Matt. 12:43-45
• John 6:37, 39 John 6:64-66
• Matt. 25:10 Matt. 25:11-12
• Rom. 3:22 Matt. 23:28, 33
• Rev. 19:7-8 Matt. 22:11, 13

Believers are rewarded ------------------------------------------------------------- Professors are condemned

• Matt. 25: 19-23 Matt. 25:24-30
• Luke 12:42-44 Luke 12:45-47
• Col. 3:24 Matt. 7:22, 13

These are just a few to study.

Yes, The enemy planted bad seed among the wheat, but the tares are those who believed Satan rather than God and sat right in the midst of the congregation. It was the Lord Himself who planted the good seed. But the Lord says let them grow together (hoping that the tares might repent. (The Lord always gives man time to repent). So the congregation was filled with the SAVED and the UNSAVED.

Here is the question I would like you to answer. If you do not trust the Lord to bring you to His promise of escape from The Wrath of God, or Judgment and to eternal life in a new heaven and earth and has offered you a position as a Son of God and Brother of Christ, How are you going to Get There? And if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you do not trust Christ that said, NO one can take us out of His hands and the Gates of Hell could not came against His Church?

Who are you addressing, and which post are you responding to.

There are many discussions going on.


JLB

 

[chessman]

So your saying, those in the second example, were never saved, even though they believed?

It's way, way, past your turn to answer my simple question and defend your position/interpretation of this parable. Here it is, once again:
Can a person (a soil) who does not understand the true and complete Gospel become saved (yes or no)?

 

[JLB]

It's way, way, past your turn to answer my simple question and defend your position/interpretation of this parable. Here it is, once again:
Can a person (a soil) who does not understand the true and complete Gospel become saved (yes or no)?

I have never heard of this true and complete Gospel.

What is the difference between the true and complete Gospel, and the Gospel that Jesus preached.

Here's an example:


11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:11-13

Jesus gives the perquisite for being saved: Believe... lest they should believe and be saved.

The second group received the word with joy, because they understood what it meant, and did indeed experience the joy of salvation... for a while.


What would cause them to experience joy when they believed and received the word, other than understanding what it meant?



JLB

 

[Jim Parker]

if you do not believe that God in Jesus Christ can save those in whom He has saved and set apart,

Of course God can save. I never suggested otherwise.

what do you believe?

I believe what the Bible says about salvation.

(1) JN 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit,......... 15:5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 IF ANYONE DOES NOT REMAIN IN ME, HE IS LIKE A BRANCH THAT IS THROWN AWAY AND WITHERS; SUCH BRANCHES ARE PICKED UP, THROWN INTO THE FIRE AND BURNED.

(2) Ro 11:17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For IF GOD DID NOT SPARE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, HE WILL NOT SPARE YOU EITHER. 22 CONSIDER THEREFORE THE KINDNESS AND STERNNESS OF GOD: STERNNESS TO THOSE WHO FELL, BUT KINDNESS TO YOU, PROVIDED THAT YOU CONTINUE IN HIS KINDNESS. OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.

(3)1CO 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

(4) 1CO 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

(5) COL 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now HE HAS RECONCILED YOU BY CHRIST'S PHYSICAL BODY THROUGH DEATH TO PRESENT YOU HOLY IN HIS SIGHT, WITHOUT BLEMISH AND FREE FROM ACCUSATION-- 23 IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

(6) HEB 3:12 See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 WE HAVE COME TO SHARE IN CHRIST IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

(7) HEB 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 IF THEY FALL AWAY, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting himto public disgrace.

(8) PHP 3:7 But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. 8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. 10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

PHP 3:12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

(9)2PE 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For IF YOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NEVER FALL,

(10) 2PE 2: 20 IF THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE CORRUPTION OF THE WORLD BY KNOWING OUR LORD AND SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST AND ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED IN IT AND OVERCOME, THEY ARE WORSE OFF AT THE END THAN THEY WERE AT THE BEGINNING. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.

(11) EZE 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.”

 

[chessman]

I have never heard of this true and complete Gospel.

Here then, let me help you out:
The true and complete Gospel includes:
1. Jesus of Nazareth being both The Son of Man (see Daniel 7:13-14) and also being the Messiah (Christ) spoken of in the O.T. (see Mark 1:1-3)
2. Jesus (The Son of Man and the Messiah) being The Son of God. (see Mark 1:11)
3. Jesus (The Son of God and Messiah and The Son of God) dying and being buried (see Matt 26:12)
4. Jesus Christ risen from the dead (see Mark 9:9)

Or as Paul says:

1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (LEB) For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures,
​

What is the difference between the true and complete Gospel, and the Gospel that Jesus preached.

Nothing really. So let's go with what you've heard of then and let me ask an apologetic question relative to proper interpretation of the parable of the soils:

Can a person (a soil) who does not understand the Gospel that Jesus preached become saved (yes or no)?

 

[FreeGrace]

Paul stomps that claim quite securely into nothing in Romans 7:17-21.

Yes, sin dwelt in his own flesh, stated twice therein.
So, maybe some reworking is in order on your end?

OK, sin indwells us. But, how does that relate to eternal security? That is the prime question that you seem unable to answer.

Your claim is VOID of Gods Adverse Judgments against SIN in ANY in whom it is found.

What do you mean?

For your claims, SIN and EVIL for believers is a SO WHAT?!

Sure. For eternal security, how does sin and evil have any relevance.

That, I reject. Gods Judgments are NOT VOID.

I never said they were void. My question is how sin and evil have any relevance to eternal security.

Why is this question so difficult to answer?

 

[FreeGrace]

But a believer without faith...

No such thing.

 

[smaller]

OK, sin indwells us. But, how does that relate to eternal security? That is the prime question that you seem unable to answer.

Your answer to indwelling sin and evil present is "so what?"

I have no response to that outright total dismissal of Gods Judgments against sin and evil.

Paul presents the opposite case:

Romans 2:9
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

So what!?

 

[chessman]

OK, sin indwells us.

Forgiven sin does!

Thank God for The Righteous One.

1 John 2:1-2 (LEB) My little children, I am writing these things to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one, and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

 

[chessman]

So your saying, those in the second example, were never saved, even though they believed?

No. I just asked you another perfectly reasonable question about Jesus' interpretation of the parable (not from enduring The Tribulation or another context). I am trying to stay on topic. THE PARALBE OF THE SOWER.

Here it is again. Note, this is unaltered, un-twisted and in context Scripture from Jesus Himself explaining the very parable you claim 'proves' soil #2 lost their salvation. You should really address this question or me and everybody reading are not going to know how you've come to your conclusion about soil #2 being once saved then de-saved (from Jesus' own interpretation of it, that is).

Matthew 13:23 (LEB) But what was sown on the good soil—this is the one who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit ...”​

How can the other soils be saved if the good soil is the one soil who understands the word?
Especially since Jesus just got through saying that the seed that fell on the path (soil#1) did NOT understand it and was NOT saved!

Surely you've got a reasoned answer to this reasonable Biblically related question. I'd love to hear it.

[Note to moderation: I know this might be the third time asking this question be answered by JLB and/or JB. Sorry about that. That's the last time I ask it of either of them. But I really, really do need an answer to it.]

That's the opposite of what your buddy Freegrace teaches.

I'm just asking you to defend your own teaching about soil #2, not mine or his. If you ask me what I think about soil#2's salvation, I answer your question. Right after you answer mine above. But since Freegrace loves the Lord then yes, he's my buddy. So are you.

 

[smaller]

Forgiven sin does!

Thank God for The Righteous One.

1 John 2:1-2 (LEB) My little children, I am writing these things to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous one, and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

It's quite unreasonable to to extend forgiveness past to point where it doesn't work:

2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Believers are forgiven. The devil and his messengers never were, never will be and never had forgiveness or any other of the finery of God to start with.

And as some few might readily see, it is not just "man" or "believers" alone that are involved with sin.

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

We do have an adversary (or many adversaries, really.)

2 Timothy 2:26
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

One of the first blinding efforts that Satan makes is to blind believers to his involvement with SIN. And I might observe this blinding is effective.

We all like to see and have our sins forgiven. But that is not the entire story. We may not be so apt to heap forgiveness where it doesn't belong if we see "unforgiveness" is upon Satan and his messengers.

It was not just Paul in the flesh, as he noted.

For this reason, Paul describes the "flesh" as factually contrary to and against the Spirit in Gal. 5:17.

IF we look upon this "unseen" reality we'll know the reasons for this state of the flesh/spirit:

2 Corinthians 7:1
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

A believer is led straight to the fear and terribleness of God WHEN they see it is not just "them" in the flesh that God is engaging.

But the other party has no fear, particularly, in the blinded to their presence. They will instead lead a believer straight into hypocrisy.

Luke 11:39
And the Lord said unto him, Now do ye Pharisees make clean the outside of the cup and the platter; but your inward part is full of ravening and wickedness.

Paul exposes this internal reality upon himself, here:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

That "evil present" will NEVER be justified by God in Christ, ever. It is always under His Condemnation.

And about the time GOD ALLOWS any believer to see this, they will know exactly what Isaiah spoke of here, and will say IDENTICALLY to him:

Isaiah 6:5
Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

Paul was no different in his sights, HERE:

Romans 7:24
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Who are you addressing, and which post are you responding to.

There are many discussions going on.


JLB

For some reason when I post my answer or question, it leaves some of my format off? I will try again.

 

[JLB]

No. I just asked you another perfectly reasonable question about Jesus' interpretation of the parable (not from enduring The Tribulation or another context). I am trying to stay on topic. THE PARALBE OF THE SOWER.

That's just it, you just don't seem to even realize that is what Jesus is teaching.

That is the context.

That is what example # 2 is discussing, and all the while, you are arguing against something that you have now proved you don't even understand.

Here is the most recent post, number 283, where I provided the scriptures from Matthew 13, the parable of the Sower, in which Jesus used the same language, as He did in Matthew 24.

Believe is the prerequisite for being saved.
These in the second example did in fact believe. But only endured for a while. They didn't endure to the end.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

Believe = Saved
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21

Believing the Gospel, not some other thing, is how we are saved.

You, trying to distract from the simple and plain truth that Jesus taught us, by attempting to redirect the discussing about "other things" that we can believe, that are most certainly not about the context of believing the Gospel, which is what Jesus is teaching from Luke 8:13, is a shameful attempt at trying to "muddy the water" about the plain and clear truth that Jesus taught from this parable.

You tried to imply that the first example, did believe, but just didn't

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

Believe is the prerequisite for being saved.
These in the second example did in fact believe. But only endured for a while. They didn't endure to the end.

But he who endures to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

Believe = Saved
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21

You can't get around it, or change this truth, from it's context.




So your saying, those in the second example, were never saved, even though they believed?

That's the opposite of what your buddy Freegrace teaches. He teaches that these were saved and continue to be saved, because it's impossible for them to become "unborn again", which as I recall you agreed with him.

How many variations of OSAS is there?

Besides, You are adding your own requirements to what Jesus said... lest they believe, and are saved.

The Gospel, that Jesus preached is the true Gospel, unless you have some requirements to add to the Gospel, then believing the Gospel is how Jesus said those are to be saved in His teaching.

The second group believed... for a while.

How can the other soils be saved if the good soil is the one soil who understands the word?
Especially since Jesus just got through saying that the seed that fell on the path (soil#1) did NOT understand it and was NOT saved!

The ones in example #4 did have a heart to understand, and endured with patient's by keeping, which is "holding fast" the word until it did bear fruit.

The ones in example #2 & #3, did understand, but did not endure with patient's to bear fruit.


Here is the parable of the sower from Mark, Luke and Matthew.

But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8:15

Remember this word from 1 Corinthians 15:2 -
Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

Same word here in Luke 15 - keep

But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.


Hold fast, keep - Strong's G2722 - katechō

1. to hold back, detain, retain
   1. from going away
   2. to restrain, hinder (the course or progress of)
      
      1. that which hinders, Antichrist from making his appearance
      2. to check a ship's headway i.e. to hold or head the ship
         
   3. to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of
      
2. to get possession of, take
   1. to possess
      

again

But these are the ones sown on good ground, those who hear the word, accept it, and bear fruit: some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some a hundred. Mark 4:20

again

But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.” Matthew 13:23


What you are now attempting to say, is because the example from group # 4 had understanding, that group #2 & #3 couldn't possible have understand, as if understanding was the ONLY thing required to produce fruit.


Keeping it, which is holding fast the word, with a good and noble heart, patiently enduring persecution and temptation unto producing fruit.



JLB

 

[JLB]

It's quite unreasonable to to extend forgiveness past to point where it doesn't work:
1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

So you don't believe he who sins needs to be forgiven?

What religion is that?

JLB

 

[chessman]

The ones in example #2 & #3, did understand, ...

Well, there you have it.

Jesus' very interpretation is that soil#4 was the one soil that did understand. Yet you say soils 2 & 3 did understand. And you accuse me of twisting, redefining, etc. (without one stitch of proof I should say).

Read Jesus' interpretation of the very parable in question again and compare it to what you just said:

Matthew 13:18 ... 23 “You, therefore, listen to the parable of the sower:
...
But what was sown on the good soil—this is the one who hears the word and understands it, ...” ​

 

[Douglas Summers]

No such thing.

Sorry, I'm afraid there is. There are many that believe Jesus is the Christ, or believed and had joy in His Gospel, but never had faith in Christ. Now, there are no born again believers that do not have faith, they have been born again. They trust (have faith) in Christ. The Scriptures are full of people who believed Jesus was the Christ but did not put their faith in Him. John 12:42-43 Matthew Chapter 12 & 13; John 11:45-53.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Believe = Saved
Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

Here is the question I would like you to answer. If you do not trust the Lord to bring you to His promise of escape from The Wrath of God, or Judgment and to eternal life in a new heaven and earth and has offered you a position as a Son of God and Brother of Christ, How are you going to Get There? And if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you do not trust Christ that said, NO one can take us out of His hands and the Gates of Hell could not came against His Church?