Bible Study Remember The Sabbath

[reba]

sheesh ok

 

[jocor]

Since we have a current person running for the White House I thought it good to bring this subject up.

The SDA (brought into existence by Laurie White) teaches that the Sabbath Day is Saturday and that if we go to church on a regular basis it needs to be that day...

Her name is Ellen G. White.

While they aren't wrong in attending that day of the week it isn't exactly what God had in mind when issuing that Commandment.

That is one important aspect He had in mind which is why Yeshua kept the Sabbath holy and attended a holy convocation every Sabbath. The main aspect is rest, ceasing from work.

ON the Day that Jesus paid for our Sins He also instituted a New Covenant with us all. He did it with His blood. Those in the past showed faith in the Messiah to come by taking that one day a week off. Those with no faith were removed from the gene pool.

They showed faith in Yahweh (Messiah's Father) by keeping the Sabbath holy.

And the word "remember" isn't exactly meaning to "recall" something to mind. It is a call to action...not a recalling to memory. God doesn't forget...ever so when you hear "remember your people" it isn't God forgot it is asking God to act on their behalf.

The word means "recall, don't forget" as the lexicons state. Yahweh knew the Israelites and future believers would forget about keeping the Sabbath holy so He commanded us to remember it. It is a command to us not to forget it. It is not a command to Him to act.

So what God was saying was that the Old Covenant was to stop and the New Covenant was to be introduced and that we now have Direct Access to God because of Jesus...and that the showing of faith in a messiah to come by going to church on Saturday wasn't going to work any longer because the Messiah has come.

How you derived that from the fourth commandment is beyond me. So tell me, why will the Sabbath be kept in the new heavens and new earth (Isa 66:22-23).

The Old Testament...and especially the Torah is all about Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of Man, the Seed of the Woman, Abraham's Seed, the Seed of David, The Only Lord of the Sabbath to come...and I am so glad He did.

and He did it on The Sabbath Day, otherwise called Today...as in Today if you hear my voice do not harden your hearts....

Messiah Yeshua kept all of Yahweh's commandments, including the Sabbath. He is our example. Neither he, nor Father Yahweh, nor any apostle ever commanded us to not keep the Sabbath holy. It is for all believers, first covenant and new covenant, from Adam to at least the end of the Millennium and possibly beyond.

 

[JohnDB]

Her name is Ellen G. White.


That is one important aspect He had in mind which is why Yeshua kept the Sabbath holy and attended a holy convocation every Sabbath. The main aspect is rest, ceasing from work.


They showed faith in Yahweh (Messiah's Father) by keeping the Sabbath holy.


The word means "recall, don't forget" as the lexicons state. Yahweh knew the Israelites and future believers would forget about keeping the Sabbath holy so He commanded us to remember it. It is a command to us not to forget it. It is not a command to Him to act.


How you derived that from the fourth commandment is beyond me. So tell me, why will the Sabbath be kept in the new heavens and new earth (Isa 66:22-23).


Messiah Yeshua kept all of Yahweh's commandments, including the Sabbath. He is our example. Neither he, nor Father Yahweh, nor any apostle ever commanded us to not keep the Sabbath holy. It is for all believers, first covenant and new covenant, from Adam to at least the end of the Millennium and possibly beyond.

Yes, but the subtle differences between us in understanding the Bible brings a huge divide.


This is why I posted. Many people do these things but have no idea as to why we go on Sunday.

Now the commandments were given in a logical order from the most important to the least.
If SDA Church is to be believed then ceremony and speech and parental discipline is more important than life...

Or...maybe I could be right.

 

[jocor]

Yes, but the subtle differences between us in understanding the Bible brings a huge divide.


This is why I posted. Many people do these things but have no idea as to why we go on Sunday.

Now the commandments were given in a logical order from the most important to the least.
If SDA Church is to be believed then ceremony and speech and parental discipline is more important than life...

Or...maybe I could be right.

Sunday worship is founded upon tradition, not Scripture. One could say (erroneously) the abolishment of the Sabbath is founded on Scripture, but not its change to Sunday.

Using the SDA church as your foundation for understanding the Sabbath is faulty. Use Scripture.

>>If SDA Church is to be believed then ceremony and speech and parental discipline is more important than life...
​

Can you elaborate on that? Why "life"?

 

[JohnDB]

Sunday worship is founded upon tradition, not Scripture. One could say (erroneously) the abolishment of the Sabbath is founded on Scripture, but not its change to Sunday.

Using the SDA church as your foundation for understanding the Sabbath is faulty. Use Scripture.

>>If SDA Church is to be believed then ceremony and speech and parental discipline is more important than life...
​

Can you elaborate on that? Why "life"?

BTW I do apologize for getting Ellen's first name wrong. Dunno why I keep doing that.

Because the Prohibition against murder comes after parental honoring...a whole two Commandments later.

Abraham was given the Seed...not seeds. Abraham was God's friend. As such Abraham was holy, holy. Because the Universe is holy it is hostile to mankind (unholy) but it doesn't contain the capacity to forgive. This is the reason for the promise/truth of long life/days. Living a Holy lifestyle has less enmity between you and the Universe.

Under this New Covenant its understood to mean eternal life.

The ceremony of Saturday worship cannot be more important to God. It creates a legalism which Jesus was dead set against. John even related this in his Gospel as Jesus broke the sabbath day as a custom and disparaged the mechanical following of rules.

 

[JLB]

Since we have a current person running for the White House I thought it good to bring this subject up.

The SDA (brought into existence by Laurie White) teaches that the Sabbath Day is Saturday and that if we go to church on a regular basis it needs to be that day...
While they aren't wrong in attending that day of the week it isn't exactly what God had in mind when issuing that Commandment.

Lets look at the order of the commandments (decalogue).
The commandment right in front of it was all about God's name...
The commandment right after it is about obeying your parents. (more on this later)
Both of these came before the commandment about murder...as these are more important than not murdering people.

So what could be so special as to remembering God's name and what day of the week you could go to church or obeying your parents have to do with anything...and these commandments were capitol in justice as well. You violated these and you got removed permanently from the world.

But to understand these concepts you have to understand the Ancient Near East mindset of the Jews.

First off to abuse or misuse God's name is to try to change God's identity to those around you. OK...then if you believe in Holiness you understand that you have just set off a ton of dynamite while you are sitting on top of the pile...not a good idea to begin with. You don't mess with things that are holy. It will kill you without the proper respect shown or ignorance of it's power can inadvertently destroy you...either way it is not a good idea.

Then Children need to obey their parents. Now most of us are adults who now recognize that we had flawed parents. They were sinful but loved us. Although the world is filled with parents who did a lousy job of showing that love to their children too. They abuse and anger their children to no end. The Bible tells of Israelites who sacrificed their own children's virginity to worthless gods of their own making. Again more abuse...but if you crossed them you were to be killed? Again not what a truly loving God would have in mind.

Hebrew is a metaphoric language with so many idioms of speech it was hard to understand even if you did know the words. So what was God saying with these commandments that everyone had to follow?

First off Abraham was God's Friend. God came to Abraham's house to eat a meal. (which was tantamount to having a lifelong peace treaty with all of Abraham's household...and it was God's lifetime that was considered...not Abraham's as he was the one hosting the meal.)
So when it comes to understanding Hebrew there isn't any word for Grandfather...or even forefather. Only the word "Father" exists in that language...the same goes for "Mother". So when God told the Israelites to honor their Father and Mother He was referencing Abraham and Sarah. Be their kids...and remember YOUR heritage and who to be like. IOW remember your identity...

Now we come to the Commandment in the middle of these two majorly important Commandments all about the Sabbath Day.
Now notice that it is singular...not plural. There doesn't exist a singular meaning a plural in the Hebrew Language to begin with. (Look at Galatians 3:16 for further evidence of this) That is one of the oddities of Hebrew. A part of speech that didn't exist that we have in ours. (They usually have parts of speech that we don't in ours...but I'm digressing)

That means that God had in mind ONE DAY...a singular Day. And in this particular instance this "Day: was actually one single day and not a period of time. (usually the case)

Now Sabbath also means "cease" or to stop.
People weren't to do any work (with exceptions) on that particular day of the week or face dire consequences.

Now we, the Westernized Cultures, think of worship as something we attend or go and do for a set amount of time. We go to worship services, we worship for a period of time in our houses with song or prayers or bible study. The Ancient Jews didn't. Their whole lives were dedicated to worshipping God. From the clothes they wore to the food they ate to the holidays they observed and even the things they said were all governed by their worship of God.
God existed in time and in order to have a proper worship of God you must stretch the worship of God over a significant portion of it. So everyone was to behave as Abraham and Sarah did over the Eons and in that you could be recognized as being one of Abraham's children. you could have a peace treaty with God as such. You were a member of Abraham's household as you conduct your life as he would want you to.
Also since God was Holy Holy Holy you, as an average individual, couldn't have a personal relationship with Him. You had to gain access to God through others which were leaders in your family, community or city...or Nation. (The Priests and elders) You couldn't just pick up a Torah and begin reading it to someone who was unfamiliar with it and explain it all...you didn't have the right or the standing to do such. After all this was Holy Holy Holy stuff to repeat God's words to someone else. And not being given the right to do so would get you killed.

So...

ON the Day that Jesus paid for our Sins He also instituted a New Covenant with us all. He did it with His blood. Those in the past showed faith in the Messiah to come by taking that one day a week off. Those with no faith were removed from the gene pool. Even Jesus took the Nazarite vows (an abbreviated form of them) when facing his crucifixion...according to Jewish tradition. (yeah...its kinda odd that they who don't believe in Jesus would provide that tidbit)

And the word "remember" isn't exactly meaning to "recall" something to mind. It is a call to action...not a recalling to memory. God doesn't forget...ever so when you hear "remember your people" it isn't God forgot it is asking God to act on their behalf.

So what God was saying was that the Old Covenant was to stop and the New Covenant was to be introduced and that we now have Direct Access to God because of Jesus...and that the showing of faith in a messiah to come by going to church on Saturday wasn't going to work any longer because the Messiah has come.

The Old Testament...and especially the Torah is all about Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of Man, the Seed of the Woman, Abraham's Seed, the Seed of David, The Only Lord of the Sabbath to come...and I am so glad He did.

and He did it on The Sabbath Day, otherwise called Today...as in Today if you hear my voice do not harden your hearts....

Thanks for sharing your insights with us John.

The Sabbath day of rest was/is a reference to the 1000 years, 7th Day of rest to come.

By saying "Today", if you hear His Voice do not harden your hearts, is a reference to receiving His message and thus entering with Him into that rest He has set aside for us, that is to come.

For we who have believed do enter that rest... Hebrews 4:3
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.... Hebrews 4:9

These two verse's seemingly contradict each other, however one speaks of our entering that rest by faith in Jesus Christ, while the other speaks of the reality of us in that rest to come, the 1000 year rest, 7th Day Rest, with our glorified bodies that are free of sin.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The ceremony of Saturday worship cannot be more important to God. It creates a legalism which Jesus was dead set against.

The Sabbath that was instituted by God, and set apart the seventh day of the week as a day of rest.

Prophetically this points to the 1000 year, Seventh Prophetic Day of rest, that we can enter now by faith, in which we will enter in realty when He returns to Gather His people for the Resurrection.

True rest will come when we have ceased from striving against the flesh nature we have until the redemption of our body.


This does not negate Saturday as being the Sabbath Day.

What ceased is keeping the Sabbath according to the ordinances of Moses, not the Sabbath as it was before Moses.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16


It was these ordinances of the Law of Moses that were added... such as putting to death someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was not abolished.


JLB

 

[JohnDB]

The Sabbath that was instituted by God, and set apart the seventh day of the week as a day of rest.

Prophetically this points to the 1000 year, Seventh Prophetic Day of rest, that we can enter now by faith, in which we will enter in realty when He returns to Gather His people for the Resurrection.

True rest will come when we have ceased from striving against the flesh nature we have until the redemption of our body.


This does not negate Saturday as being the Sabbath Day.

What ceased is keeping the Sabbath according to the ordinances of Moses, not the Sabbath as it was before Moses.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16


It was these ordinances of the Law of Moses that were added... such as putting to death someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was not abolished.


JLB

OK
But I'm not claiming that The Sabbath Day was abolished...only Saturday worship service... The Sabbath referred to in the Commandments was fulfilled and revealed.

But look closely at the "Today" in Hebrews...its capitalised in the middle of a sentence. It's a holiday.

 

[JLB]

Messiah Yeshua kept all of Yahweh's commandments, including the Sabbath. He is our example. Neither he, nor Father Yahweh, nor any apostle ever commanded us to not keep the Sabbath holy. It is for all believers, first covenant and new covenant, from Adam to at least the end of the Millennium and possibly beyond.

A.] Jesus is YHWH.

B.] Jesus did everything His Father said, and did not need to keep the law of Moses which was for sinners. Please show us the scripture where Jesus sacrificed animals for sin, didn't do any work or travel on the Sabbath, submitted to the Levitical Priesthood.

By Confessing Jesus as YHWH, the Lord God, we receive the salvation that is by faith in Him.

...with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

This is an unmistakable reference to YHWH.

And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls. Joel 2:32


For there is no other name by which men can be saved.

let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:10-12


Jesus is YHWH, the Lord our Savior.

...looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, Titus 2;13



JLB

 

[JLB]

OK
But I'm not claiming that The Sabbath Day was abolished...only Saturday worship service... The Sabbath referred to in the Commandments was fulfilled and revealed.

But look closely at the "Today" in Hebrews...its capitalised in the middle of a sentence. It's a holiday.

Today is a reference to this age, any day in this age is called today.

On the last day, Jesus will raise us up, [John 6:39-40] and it will no longer be called Today after the last Day.

The last Day, being a reference to the last Day of this age.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage.
35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36


JLB

 

[jocor]

Because the Prohibition against murder comes after parental honoring...a whole two Commandments later.

Got it! That just goes to show the Ten Words are NOT in order or importance. The first four fulfill the greatest commandment - to love Yahweh with all your heart...and the last six fulfill the second greatest commandment - to love thy neighbor...

The ceremony of Saturday worship cannot be more important to God. It creates a legalism which Jesus was dead set against. John even related this in his Gospel as Jesus broke the sabbath day as a custom and disparaged the mechanical following of rules.

What creates a legalism, "Saturday worship" or making Saturday worship more important than life? Sabbath worship cannot be a legalism because Yahweh commanded His people to worship Him on that day via a holy convocation (Lev 23:3). That is one of the purposes of ceasing from work. It affords us the time, without excuse, to come before Him in worship. It also provides time to fellowship, study the Word, and gives our bodies needed physical rest.

 

[jocor]

The Sabbath that was instituted by God, and set apart the seventh day of the week as a day of rest.

Prophetically this points to the 1000 year, Seventh Prophetic Day of rest, that we can enter now by faith, in which we will enter in realty when He returns to Gather His people for the Resurrection.

True rest will come when we have ceased from striving against the flesh nature we have until the redemption of our body.


This does not negate Saturday as being the Sabbath Day.

What ceased is keeping the Sabbath according to the ordinances of Moses, not the Sabbath as it was before Moses.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.
Ephesians 2:14-16


It was these ordinances of the Law of Moses that were added... such as putting to death someone for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was not abolished.


JLB

I agree the Sabbath was not abolished. However, Eph 2:14-16 has absolutely nothing to do with Yahweh's commandments. Paul is addressing man made commandments that caused a hatred between Jew and Gentile. Yahweh's commandments foster love between the two.

 

[jocor]

OK
But I'm not claiming that The Sabbath Day was abolished...only Saturday worship service... The Sabbath referred to in the Commandments was fulfilled and revealed.

But look closely at the "Today" in Hebrews...its capitalised in the middle of a sentence. It's a holiday.

There is no capitalization in the Hebrew or Greek text. That is an English practice. "Today" is not a holiday. "Today" refers to whatever day we hear His voice. We are not to put off obedience until "tomorrow" for "tomorrow" may never come.

 

[JohnDB]

There is no capitalization in the Hebrew or Greek text. That is an English practice. "Today" is not a holiday. "Today" refers to whatever day we hear His voice. We are not to put off obedience until "tomorrow" for "tomorrow" may never come.

Yeah. The translators faithfully copied the capitalised letters from Greek into English. And Hebrews has it capitalised mid sentence in Latin and Greek manuscripts. Check Saianiticus. It's online...and the oldest manuscript. From 300 AD.or earlier.

 

[JohnDB]

Got it! That just goes to show the Ten Words are NOT in order or importance. The first four fulfill the greatest commandment - to love Yahweh with all your heart...and the last six fulfill the second greatest commandment - to love thy neighbor...


What creates a legalism, "Saturday worship" or making Saturday worship more important than life? Sabbath worship cannot be a legalism because Yahweh commanded His people to worship Him on that day via a holy convocation (Lev 23:3). That is one of the purposes of ceasing from work. It affords us the time, without excuse, to come before Him in worship. It also provides time to fellowship, study the Word, and gives our bodies needed physical rest.

Not much of a chance for you to convince me (or many others) of Ellen's theology.

But I did want to put it out there for others to understand where I am coming from.

If you take some time and consideration of how I can believe what I have shown here you should come to the conclusion that where I have no animosity towards the SDA I certainly won't follow their teaching.

 

[reba]

HINT .. Discussion not debate admin

 

[jocor]

Yeah. The translators faithfully copied the capitalised letters from Greek into English. And Hebrews has it capitalised mid sentence in Latin and Greek manuscripts. Check Saianiticus. It's online...and the oldest manuscript. From 300 AD.or earlier.

The Sinaiticus manuscript uses ALL capital letters. You can view it here.

 

[Edward]

Watch it i have an unending supply of

NPD?

You can say that again...

Watch it i have an unending supply of

NPD?

Oh, you did, lol.

 

[jocor]

Not much of a chance for you to convince me (or many others) of Ellen's theology.

But I did want to put it out there for others to understand where I am coming from.

If you take some time and consideration of how I can believe what I have shown here you should come to the conclusion that where I have no animosity towards the SDA I certainly won't follow their teaching.

Just so you will know, I am not a SDA, nor do I follow their doctrines or their prophetess E.G. White.

 

[Edward]

Thanks for sharing your insights with us John.

The Sabbath day of rest was/is a reference to the 1000 years, 7th Day of rest to come.

By saying "Today", if you hear His Voice do not harden your hearts, is a reference to receiving His message and thus entering with Him into that rest He has set aside for us, that is to come.

For we who have believed do enter that rest... Hebrews 4:3
There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.... Hebrews 4:9

These two verse's seemingly contradict each other, however one speaks of our entering that rest by faith in Jesus Christ, while the other speaks of the reality of us in that rest to come, the 1000 year rest, 7th Day Rest, with our glorified bodies that are free of sin.


JLB

Aren't we, early in the morning of the 7th day, right now?