Bible Study Remember The Sabbath

[JLB]

Explain to me how Yahweh's holy, just and good commandments caused a hatred (enmity) between Jew and Gentile. You included the Feasts among those "ordinances" that were abolished. How did they cause a hatred if they have absolutely no affect on Gentiles unless they were proselytes? Do you include the Ten Words in those ordinances?

Jews separated themselves from Gentiles.

The law of Moses created a division, a distinction that set apart the Children of Israel from the nations.

Did the the Gentiles distinguish between eating pork or not?

Was there a distinction between Jew and Gentile before the law of Moses?

Jews consider Gentiles as "unclean".


JLB

 

[jocor]

Jews separated themselves from Gentiles.

At the command of Yahweh.

The law of Moses created a division, a distinction that set apart the Children of Israel from the nations.

The division was created by Yahweh when He chose a people unto Himself. He then gave them holy, just and good laws, founded upon love, that would help them to live in a pleasing way in His sight.

Did the the Gentiles distinguish between eating pork or not?

If they became proselytes, they did.

Was there a distinction between Jew and Gentile before the law of Moses?

Yes. Genesis 10 describes the divisions of the nations that came from the loins of Noah's sons. The line of Shem brought forth the children of Israel and the lines of Japheth and Ham brought forth the Gentile nations. Geographical boundaries divided Jews and Gentiles.

Jews consider Gentiles as "unclean".

And Yahweh corrected such thinking through Peter's vision.

 

[JLB]

At the command of Yahweh.


The division was created by Yahweh when He chose a people unto Himself. He then gave them holy, just and good laws, founded upon love, that would help them to live in a pleasing way in His sight.


If they became proselytes, they did.


Yes. Genesis 10 describes the divisions of the nations that came from the loins of Noah's sons. The line of Shem brought forth the children of Israel and the lines of Japheth and Ham brought forth the Gentile nations. Geographical boundaries divided Jews and Gentiles.


And Yahweh corrected such thinking through Peter's vision.

The line of Shem brought forth the children of Israel and the lines of Japheth and Ham brought forth the Gentile nations. Geographical boundaries divided Jews and Gentiles.

No such Jew and Gentile separation until Moses.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,...
Ephesians 2:14-15

the law of commandments contained in ordinances... Is a reference to the law of Moses, which God Himself declared to be obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

Paul taught that there is nothing unclean of itself, whereas the law declared certain foods to be unclean.

Paul taught that Sabbaths were only a shadow of the good things to come but the substance was Christ.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:16-17

The food laws and sabbath laws have been abolished that created division between Jew and Gentile, where Jews considered the food that Gentiles ate to be unclean, and
Wouldn't eat with them.



The law of Moses commanded death to a person for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Exodus 31:15

Because Sabbath ordinances have been done away with, this law of death to those who kindle a fire on the Sabbath is no longer enforced.


Jesus purified all foods.


Again, what would God have to do with abolishing man made laws from His Covenant that He never added?

JLB

 

[jocor]

No such Jew and Gentile separation until Moses.

Genesis 10 mentions the first division between Gentiles and the lineage that Yahweh was choosing. That lineage led to the Jews. When the first Jew was born, he was already separated from Gentiles.

Paul taught that there is nothing unclean of itself, whereas the law declared certain foods to be unclean.

I showed you the word is "koinos" (common), but you would not reply to my facts. Instead, you just repeat yourself over and over again.

Paul taught that Sabbaths were only a shadow of the good things to come but the substance was Christ.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
Colossians 2:16-17

The Greek word "soma" means "body". It is never translated "substance" in the NT except in this verse and then, only by post KJV translations that allow their bias to enter the translation. Paul used it 8 times in Colossians alone and each time it referred to the physical body or the Body of Messiah (the believers). The NT uses it 142 times, but only once translates it "substance". Why? Bias.

The verse should correctly read;

16 So let no one judge you . . . but the Body of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17
​

Only believers can judge one another regarding those things. Those outside the Body who do not hold Yeshua as head have no say in the matter. If those things were fulfilled shadows, Paul would not be telling us that they "ARE" shadows of "things TO COME". He wrote that about 30 years after they were supposedly fulfilled/abolished, but he did not write, "WERE" or "things THAT CAME".

The food laws and sabbath laws have been abolished that created division between Jew and Gentile, where Jews considered the food that Gentiles ate to be unclean, and
Wouldn't eat with them.

They considered certain Gentile foods unclean because Yahweh said they were unclean. They were unclean BEFORE a Jew ever existed (Gen 7:1-2). The Sabbath also existed before any Jew ever existed (Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:11).

The law of Moses commanded death to a person for picking up sticks on the Sabbath. Exodus 31:15

Because Sabbath ordinances have been done away with, this law of death to those who kindle a fire on the Sabbath is no longer enforced.

Yahweh commanded the death penalty for Sabbath breakers which tells us how incredibly important Yahweh views the holiness of the Sabbath. The Sabbath command still exists for believers today, but the death penalty for breaking it has been paid for by Yeshua.

Jesus purified all foods.

I addressed this earlier by explaining the context, but you did not reply to the facts. Instead, you just keep repeating yourself.

Again, what would God have to do with abolishing man made laws from His Covenant that He never added?

He abolished man-made commands because they were causing His people to break His commands (Matthew 15:3-9). They were also causing Jews and Gentiles to hate one another (Eph 2:15a). Any Gentile proselyte in that day would be extremely thankful to be given the gift of the Sabbath rest so he wouldn't be forced by his boss to work hard seven days a week. I say "in that day" because modern Christian teaching has turned the Sabbath rest into a burden contrary to 1 John 5:3. They are teaching Gentiles to hate Yahweh's literal Sabbath.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Genesis 10 mentions the first division between Gentiles and the lineage that Yahweh was choosing. That lineage led to the Jews. When the first Jew was born, he was already separated from Gentiles.


I showed you the word is "koinos" (common), but you would not reply to my facts. Instead, you just repeat yourself over and over again.


The Greek word "soma" means "body". It is never translated "substance" in the NT except in this verse and then, only by post KJV translations that allow their bias to enter the translation. Paul used it 8 times in Colossians alone and each time it referred to the physical body or the Body of Messiah (the believers). The NT uses it 142 times, but only once translates it "substance". Why? Bias.

The verse should correctly read;

16 So let no one judge you . . . but the Body of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17
​

Only believers can judge one another regarding those things. Those outside the Body who do not hold Yeshua as head have no say in the matter. If those things were fulfilled shadows, Paul would not be telling us that they "ARE" shadows of "things TO COME". He wrote that about 30 years after they were supposedly fulfilled/abolished, but he did not write, "WERE" or "things THAT CAME".


They considered certain Gentile foods unclean because Yahweh said they were unclean. They were unclean BEFORE a Jew ever existed (Gen 7:1-2). The Sabbath also existed before any Jew ever existed (Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:11).


Yahweh commanded the death penalty for Sabbath breakers which tells us how incredibly important Yahweh views the holiness of the Sabbath. The Sabbath command still exists for believers today, but the death penalty for breaking it has been paid for by Yeshua.


I addressed this earlier by explaining the context, but you did not reply to the facts. Instead, you just keep repeating yourself.


He abolished man-made commands because they were causing His people to break His commands (Matthew 15:3-9). They were also causing Jews and Gentiles to hate one another (Eph 2:15a). Any Gentile proselyte in that day would be extremely thankful to be given the gift of the Sabbath rest so he wouldn't be forced by his boss to work hard seven days a week. I say "in that day" because modern Christian teaching has turned the Sabbath rest into a burden contrary to 1 John 5:3. They are teaching Gentiles to hate Yahweh's literal Sabbath.

Why are you writing on here today?
It's the Sabbath.

 

[jocor]

Why are you writing on here today?
It's the Sabbath.

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. The works of man are forbidden, but not the works of Yahweh.

I'm glad you acknowledge that today is, indeed, the Sabbath!

 

[JLB]

. I say "in that day" because modern Christian teaching has turned the Sabbath rest into a burden contrary to 1 John 5:3. They are teaching Gentiles to hate Yahweh's literal Sabbath.

I have never heard of any Christian teaching that teaches to hate the Sabbath.

What is taught and taught correctly, is that we are not required to "keep the Sabbath" according to Moses law.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Christ is the substance, that cast's the shadow.

Paul clearly taught us that those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law of Moses.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

The Holy Spirit does not led us to keep the law of Moses.

...if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


Those of us who believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, YHWH believe He has the authority [all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me] to declare obsolete the Sinai Covenant, Hebrews 8:13, and abolish in His flesh the law of ordinances, Ephesians 2:14-15, and remove what was added, Galatians 3:19, for He has become the Mediator of the New Covenant.

Only the Covenant Maker, YHWH, has the authority to do that.

as He Himself has said -

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

Do you believe the testimony of Jesus, concerning Who He claims to be?

The Jews who believed at the time, did not believe He is YHWH, I AM, for... they took up stones to throw at Him.


JLB

 

[jocor]

I have never heard of any Christian teaching that teaches to hate the Sabbath.

I did not mean that they say to Gentiles, "We are to hate the Sabbath." I meant that as a result of teaching that the Sabbath is a burden that is not imposed on New Covenant believers, that they cause the Sabbath to be hated.

What is taught and taught correctly, is that we are not required to "keep the Sabbath" according to Moses law.

16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. Colossians 2:16-17

Christ is the substance, that cast's the shadow.

Again, you just repeat yourself over and over again without addressing the facts I teach. Explain to me why, out of 142 occurrences of "soma" or a form of it, that it was only translated "substance" in this one verse. Explain why "substance" is correct rather than "body".

Paul clearly taught us that those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law of Moses.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18

The Holy Spirit does not led us to keep the law of Moses.

...if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

This does not mean we are free to break the law. It means we are no longer under its condemnation. There are many commands found in the "Law of Moses" that are still commands for us today, ie; the two greatest commandments, at least nine of the ten commandments, etc. Are those commandments included in Gal 5:18? Absolutely not.

Those of us who believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, YHWH believe He has the authority [all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me] to declare obsolete the Sinai Covenant, Hebrews 8:13, and abolish in His flesh the law of ordinances, Ephesians 2:14-15, and remove what was added, Galatians 3:19, for He has become the Mediator of the New Covenant.

Only the Covenant Maker, YHWH, has the authority to do that.

Yeshua has that authority because Yahweh gave it to him. He did not always have it. He did NOT command Yahweh's "law of ordinances" to be abolished. That is your false interpretation of Eph 2:14-15.

as He Himself has said -

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you,

before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58

Do you believe the testimony of Jesus, concerning Who He claims to be?

The Jews who believed at the time, did not believe He is YHWH, I AM, for... they took up stones to throw at Him.


JLB

If you want me to answer this, then start a new thread.

 

[JLB]

Yeshua has that authority because Yahweh gave it to him.

Jesus is YHWH.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

YHWH speaking through Zechariah, as He did through all the prophets.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

It was YHWH who spoke through the old testament prophets.

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of the Lord God, YHWH.


How could anyone less than God, be in and speak through the old testament prophets all at the same time, indicating the Omnipresence of Christ.


JLB

 

[jocor]

Jesus is YHWH.

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

YHWH speaking through Zechariah, as He did through all the prophets.

10 Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, 11 searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow. 1 Peter 1:10-11

It was YHWH who spoke through the old testament prophets.

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of the Lord God, YHWH.


How could anyone less than God, be in and speak through the old testament prophets all at the same time, indicating the Omnipresence of Christ.


JLB

If you want to discuss your "Jesus is YHWH" doctrine, start a new thread.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Since we have a current person running for the White House I thought it good to bring this subject up.

Hi JohnDB, To remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy was never a day of worship as we do and the Jew did in OT times, It was simply a day of rest for man and beast as you allured to. God created everything that He needed, to accomplish and bring to completion His will. That includes our salvation, the calling out of Israel and the new heaven and earth. And He states that in Scripture. That is why in Hebrews He tells us to have a Sabbath days rest in His work to save us, apart from our works and rest in His finished work given to all by Faith. Some do not believe this because they think that means to sit idly by and do nothing. But in the finished work of God in Jesus Christ was the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was given in the OT, but never as a permanent possession. It could be taken away.(Ps. 51:11). Not so with the Body of Christ, it is a permanent possession in us to accomplish good works and sanctification to the end, a new body and new earth, void of transgressions. Amen

 

[JLB]

If you want to discuss your "Jesus is YHWH" doctrine, start a new thread.

It's called the doctrine of Christ.

Jesus is Lord.

That is part of the Gospel message, whereby we confess Jesus as Lord.

He is our rest.

For we who have believed do enter that rest... Hebrews 4:3


JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Did you read and understand the OP?

This was more about the Ten Commandments that centered around the Sabbath Day Commandment and what and why the order was given in the order given based upon what they truly intended to mean.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Did you read and understand the OP?

This was more about the Ten Commandments that centered around the Sabbath Day Commandment and what and why the order was given in the order given based upon what they truly intended to mean.

It was too much to read to explain what the Torah already teaches, and where the NT describes the intention of the law. The Ten Commandments are Spiritual whereas Israel used it for justification by the works of the flesh. These commandments will be part of the Constitution of the Kingdom of God. Did you understand the Sabbath Day's rest in Hebrews?

 

[JohnDB]

It was too much to read to explain what the Torah already teaches, and where the NT describes the intention of the law. The Ten Commandments are Spiritual whereas Israel used it for justification by the works of the flesh. These commandments will be part of the Constitution of the Kingdom of God. Did you understand the Sabbath Day's rest in Hebrews?

Yes, and I went farther than Hebrews by explaining the writings that Hebrews alludes to.

Try carefully reading the OP.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Jews separated themselves from Gentiles.

The law of Moses created a division, a distinction that set apart the Children of Israel from the nations.

Did the the Gentiles distinguish between eating pork or not?

Was there a distinction between Jew and Gentile before the law of Moses?

Jews consider Gentiles as "unclean".


JLB

In the Beginning God dealt with all men the same with no separate distinction. It was God who separated Israel from mankind, called the Gentiles. Even the Semitic tribes related to Israel were included in the Gentile nations. The distinction started with the calling of Abraham. The separation started with the Exodus and was ratified with the Law of Moses in Exodus Chapter 19. The Law of Moses does not mean he was the author of the Law but the progenitor of the Law. (he began the development of the Law). Given by God and accepted by the people.(Ex. 19:8)

 

[Chopper]

Since we have a current person running for the White House I thought it good to bring this subject up.

The SDA (brought into existence by Laurie White) teaches that the Sabbath Day is Saturday and that if we go to church on a regular basis it needs to be that day...
While they aren't wrong in attending that day of the week it isn't exactly what God had in mind when issuing that Commandment.

Lets look at the order of the commandments (decalogue).
The commandment right in front of it was all about God's name...
The commandment right after it is about obeying your parents. (more on this later)
Both of these came before the commandment about murder...as these are more important than not murdering people.

So what could be so special as to remembering God's name and what day of the week you could go to church or obeying your parents have to do with anything...and these commandments were capitol in justice as well. You violated these and you got removed permanently from the world.

But to understand these concepts you have to understand the Ancient Near East mindset of the Jews.

First off to abuse or misuse God's name is to try to change God's identity to those around you. OK...then if you believe in Holiness you understand that you have just set off a ton of dynamite while you are sitting on top of the pile...not a good idea to begin with. You don't mess with things that are holy. It will kill you without the proper respect shown or ignorance of it's power can inadvertently destroy you...either way it is not a good idea.

Then Children need to obey their parents. Now most of us are adults who now recognize that we had flawed parents. They were sinful but loved us. Although the world is filled with parents who did a lousy job of showing that love to their children too. They abuse and anger their children to no end. The Bible tells of Israelites who sacrificed their own children's virginity to worthless gods of their own making. Again more abuse...but if you crossed them you were to be killed? Again not what a truly loving God would have in mind.

Hebrew is a metaphoric language with so many idioms of speech it was hard to understand even if you did know the words. So what was God saying with these commandments that everyone had to follow?

First off Abraham was God's Friend. God came to Abraham's house to eat a meal. (which was tantamount to having a lifelong peace treaty with all of Abraham's household...and it was God's lifetime that was considered...not Abraham's as he was the one hosting the meal.)
So when it comes to understanding Hebrew there isn't any word for Grandfather...or even forefather. Only the word "Father" exists in that language...the same goes for "Mother". So when God told the Israelites to honor their Father and Mother He was referencing Abraham and Sarah. Be their kids...and remember YOUR heritage and who to be like. IOW remember your identity...

Now we come to the Commandment in the middle of these two majorly important Commandments all about the Sabbath Day.
Now notice that it is singular...not plural. There doesn't exist a singular meaning a plural in the Hebrew Language to begin with. (Look at Galatians 3:16 for further evidence of this) That is one of the oddities of Hebrew. A part of speech that didn't exist that we have in ours. (They usually have parts of speech that we don't in ours...but I'm digressing)

That means that God had in mind ONE DAY...a singular Day. And in this particular instance this "Day: was actually one single day and not a period of time. (usually the case)

Now Sabbath also means "cease" or to stop.
People weren't to do any work (with exceptions) on that particular day of the week or face dire consequences.

Now we, the Westernized Cultures, think of worship as something we attend or go and do for a set amount of time. We go to worship services, we worship for a period of time in our houses with song or prayers or bible study. The Ancient Jews didn't. Their whole lives were dedicated to worshipping God. From the clothes they wore to the food they ate to the holidays they observed and even the things they said were all governed by their worship of God.
God existed in time and in order to have a proper worship of God you must stretch the worship of God over a significant portion of it. So everyone was to behave as Abraham and Sarah did over the Eons and in that you could be recognized as being one of Abraham's children. you could have a peace treaty with God as such. You were a member of Abraham's household as you conduct your life as he would want you to.
Also since God was Holy Holy Holy you, as an average individual, couldn't have a personal relationship with Him. You had to gain access to God through others which were leaders in your family, community or city...or Nation. (The Priests and elders) You couldn't just pick up a Torah and begin reading it to someone who was unfamiliar with it and explain it all...you didn't have the right or the standing to do such. After all this was Holy Holy Holy stuff to repeat God's words to someone else. And not being given the right to do so would get you killed.

So...

ON the Day that Jesus paid for our Sins He also instituted a New Covenant with us all. He did it with His blood. Those in the past showed faith in the Messiah to come by taking that one day a week off. Those with no faith were removed from the gene pool. Even Jesus took the Nazarite vows (an abbreviated form of them) when facing his crucifixion...according to Jewish tradition. (yeah...its kinda odd that they who don't believe in Jesus would provide that tidbit)

And the word "remember" isn't exactly meaning to "recall" something to mind. It is a call to action...not a recalling to memory. God doesn't forget...ever so when you hear "remember your people" it isn't God forgot it is asking God to act on their behalf.

So what God was saying was that the Old Covenant was to stop and the New Covenant was to be introduced and that we now have Direct Access to God because of Jesus...and that the showing of faith in a messiah to come by going to church on Saturday wasn't going to work any longer because the Messiah has come.

The Old Testament...and especially the Torah is all about Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of Man, the Seed of the Woman, Abraham's Seed, the Seed of David, The Only Lord of the Sabbath to come...and I am so glad He did.

and He did it on The Sabbath Day, otherwise called Today...as in Today if you hear my voice do not harden your hearts....

Hi John. Thank you for this thread. Presently, I am re-studying the 10 Commandments as well as the Blessings given by Jesus in Matthew Five. Quite frankly, the Sabbath has always been a question in my mind because of how important it seems to me.

Your command of the Hebrew language is impressive and I'm taking your word on this as being true and it answers many questions of my heart. This statement of yours "On the day that Jesus paid for our sins, He also instituted a New Covenant with us all. He did it with His Blood." Even though I knew that, for some reason, those words were what I needed. So, now I'll read what others have written. For my mind, your post makes sense.

 

[JLB]

I said -

Jews separated themselves from Gentiles.

At the command of Yahweh.

Yes, that is why it says the law of commandments, not man's commandments but the law of commandments of the Lord.

For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, Ephesians 2:14-15

The ordinances of the law of Moses, that was added, is what was removed, having been made obsolete... in other words, the Sabbath wasn't removed, but rather the way the Sabbath was kept, such as putting to death someone for picking up sticks to make a fire.

The Sabbath, Evening of Friday to Evening Saturday, is the day the Lord has set aside to rest, pointing to the 7th prophetic Day, in which we will rest with Him for a thousand years, with a sinless glorified body that will never die, being free from the striving of the flesh against the Spirit.


Now that will truly be a rest.


JLB

 

[JohnDB]

Hi John. Thank you for this thread. Presently, I am re-studying the 10 Commandments as well as the Blessings given by Jesus in Matthew Five. Quite frankly, the Sabbath has always been a question in my mind because of how important it seems to me.

Your command of the Hebrew language is impressive and I'm taking your word on this as being true and it answers many questions of my heart. This statement of yours "On the day that Jesus paid for our sins, He also instituted a New Covenant with us all. He did it with His Blood." Even though I knew that, for some reason, those words were what I needed. So, now I'll read what others have written. For my mind, your post makes sense.

I'm glad to help. My wife says I got a talent for telling stories verbally. She has the real writing talents in the house though...

Most of this post is scripture simply restated in a different fashion and put together in modern speech.

The Gospel isn't really complicated. But for some reason we seem to make it that way. Granted this stuff was written in another language and culture but when uneducated slaves clearly understood it but us in this "instant information age" can't. It's obvious that there is a problem with the way we understand things.

I really like the beatitudes and how they seem to be Jesus' commentary on the Ten Commandments. My favorite is the Pure/Holy/Passionate of heart. It's still true to this day. The poetry of the Aramaic is beautiful too. Granted none of this shows up in Greek or Latin but its still astounding

 

[Chopper]

HINT .. Discussion not debate admin

I agree with Reba. It really shows, IMO, how human many people are when responding to someone's thread or post. Can't we all respond to a post without viewing it with the mindset of picking it apart and finding fault.

Reba said "discussion not debate" I'm wondering, what causes debate? Is it not that we think our doctrine is better than someone else? Is not debate the energy of pride? Debate seems to bring out the flesh and not the Spirit.

Discussion that is prayerfully thought out is a learning tool of great minds....Just saying.