Repentance Vs. Eternal Security

[Butch5]

WRONG ** THEY DO HAVE TO REPENT eternal security is not the ability to say o well if i sin and do not repent ..i will still make it to heaven.. true eternal security is placing your faith in Christ Knowing he is the author and finisher along with knowing he is able to keep one from falling..... it is not a license to sin... let me show you the rest of your scripture....... 1 And{ such were some of you:} but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. living in total sin is not the new creation in Christ.. facts are you can be secure in Christ 2. you can have a know so salvation. 3. you can go to be at night saved and still be saved the next morning....:amen

You quoted the rest of the passage in 1 Corinthians 6 which indicates that a man has a part in his salvation.

 

[Butch5]

What do you guys do with the Scriptures that speak of those who fell away? If the Scriptures are the final authority and they say some people fell way and were lost doesn't that take priority over someone's opinion?

 

[ezra]

What do you guys do with the Scriptures that speak of those who fell away? If the Scriptures are the final authority and they say some people fell way and were lost doesn't that take priority over someone's opinion?

show the scripture i will go from there ..read my explanation of eternal security very close....

 

[Butch5]

show the scripture i will go from there ..read my explanation of eternal security very close....

Well, there's Judas for one. Paul speaks of women who left Christ.

11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. (1Ti 5:11-15 KJV)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

If any man is in Christ, he is a new creature. Old things have passed away. Behold! The new has come.... A new creature in Christ will not go to Hell. There will be no Born-Again people in Hell. Some embarrassed folks in Heaven.

So a Christian can steal and yet be saved, 1 Cor 6:9-11 ?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

To steal once verses a habit of stealing are two different things. This example is no different than committing adultery. If you take a glance at a wife of another man and lust after her and then have a heart attack which leads to your death, will you go to Hell? No. A lifestyle of adultery, Yes ... Pick any "sin". It is not a sin that sends people to Hell. We already started with a sin nature. It is not having a restored relationship with Jesus.

I think this is where my Arminian friends miss it. As mentioned before, true believers are new creatures in Christ... Not a sinner with a Christian mask on ...

So a Christian can steal and commit adultery and yet be saved, 1 Cor 6:9-11 ?

If a Christian can do one act of unrighteousness and still be saved, why can't they do four or five acts of unrighteousness and still be saved? Or nine or ten and still be saved? Twenty or twenty five and still be saved?


(I am not Arminian by the way)

 

[John 8:32]

[COLOR="#8b0000"] WRONG ** THEY DO HAVE TO REPENT eternal security is not the ability to say o well if i sin and do not repent ..i will still make it to heaven.. true eternal security is placing your faith in Christ Knowing he is the author and finisher along with knowing he is able to keep one from falling..... it is not a license to sin... let me show you the rest of your scripture....... 1 And{ such were some of you:} but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. living in total sin is not the new creation in Christ.. facts are you can be secure in Christ 2. you can have a know so salvation. 3. you can go to bed at night saved and still be saved the next morning....:amen [/COLOR]

But the next day this can happen...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So it behooves us to continue in a repentant attitude rather than the smug attitude of having already attained...

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Notice that Paul saw this as a future event, something to strive for?

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

WRONG ** THEY DO HAVE TO REPENT eternal security is not the ability to say o well if i sin and do not repent ..i will still make it to heaven.. true eternal security is placing your faith in Christ Knowing he is the author and finisher along with knowing he is able to keep one from falling..... it is not a license to sin... let me show you the rest of your scripture....... 1 And{ such were some of you:} but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. living in total sin is not the new creation in Christ.. facts are you can be secure in Christ 2. you can have a know so salvation. 3. you can go to bed at night saved and still be saved the next morning....:amen

You posted " ** THEY DO HAVE TO REPENT eternal security is not the ability to say o well if i sin and do not repent ..i will still make it to heaven

I agree with this statement. Salvation is CONDITIONAL upon the Christian repenting keeping all his sins cleansed by the blood of Christ, 1 Jn 1:7

Eternal security says salvation is UNCONDITIONAL whereby repenting or not repenting has no effect on salvation one whit and therefore it does not matter if one repents


1 Cor 6:11 even though Paul said the Corinthians had been washed, sanctified, justified (past tense) but a little bit later Paul still warns them "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." 1 Cor 10:12

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

What do you guys do with the Scriptures that speak of those who fell away? If the Scriptures are the final authority and they say some people fell way and were lost doesn't that take priority over someone's opinion?

What do they do with 1 Cor 6:9-11 that explicitly states thieves will not inherit the kingdom of heaven?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well, there's Judas for one. Paul speaks of women who left Christ.

11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
15 For some are already turned aside after Satan. (1Ti 5:11-15 KJV)

..and to dismiss the "they were never really saved to begin with" card, how can they cast off a faith they never really had to begin with? How can they turn aside if they were always turned to Satan?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

But the next day this can happen...

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So it behooves us to continue in a repentant attitude rather than the smug attitude of having already attained...

Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Notice that Paul saw this as a future event, something to strive for?

Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

.....But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[Butch5]

..and to dismiss the "they were never really saved to begin with" card, how can they cast off a faith they never really had to begin with? How can they turn aside if they were always turned to Satan?

The only way I can see anyone getting around this passage is to ignore it. There is no way one can dismiss Paul's words here and remain intellectually honest. He clearly says that the casting off of their first faith is against Christ.

 

[Butch5]

What do they do with 1 Cor 6:9-11 that explicitly states thieves will not inherit the kingdom of heaven?

I don't see how one can get around it.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I don't see how one can get around it.

Their only argument would be a Christian can be a thief and still be saved, which they will have an impossible time proving this.

 

[beardedad]

But thieves will not inherit the kingdom of God, 1 Cor 6:9-11

He was talking about the unsaved. If this be the case nobody would make it to heaven. In Gods eye stealing a horse or goofing off at work, which is stealing time from your boss, is the same. Are you going to lose your salvation for one and not the other? I believe Paul understood what Christ was talking about when it comes to our salvation. In Romans Paul talks about such things as, that there is no one worthy, that Christ died for the ungodly. In Timothy ha calls himself the chief among sinners. Christ hung on the cross for our sins; he took them on and as the ultimate sacrifice paid the cost for them. The price has already been paid all we have to do is accept the gift.

 

[John 8:32]

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

He was talking about the unsaved. If this be the case nobody would make it to heaven. In Gods eye stealing a horse or goofing off at work, which is stealing time from your boss, is the same. Are you going to lose your salvation for one and not the other? I believe Paul understood what Christ was talking about when it comes to our salvation. In Romans Paul talks about such things as, that there is no one worthy, that Christ died for the ungodly. In Timothy ha calls himself the chief among sinners. Christ hung on the cross for our sins; he took them on and as the ultimate sacrifice paid the cost for them. The price has already been paid all we have to do is accept the gift.

Paul was talking about thieves - period. Paul made no exceptions...thieves (all of them no matter who they are) will not inherit the kingdom of God. But those Christians that conditionally repent of their sins can make it to heaven. 'Goofing off at work' is stealing time from the employer and the Christian should not be doing it and had better repent and quit doing if they are. Nowhere did Paul, in Romans or elsewhere, make any allowances or give any license to Christians to sin yet can still maintain their salvation. There is no such thing as a Christian can commit X number of sins and still be saved. One sin is sufficient to make one be lost. That is why Paul said in Eph 1:4 that Christians are 'holy and without blame' and it takes conditional obedience in repenting to keep the Christian without blame, 1 Jn 1:7. WHen Paul said he was chief among sinners Paul was expressing a present regret over his past sinning. 1 Tim 1:13 Paul spoke of his sinning in the past not in the present and Paul was not presently a sinner who was sinning "ignorantly in unbelief". If Paul was presently a sinner and saved, that contradicts a host of verses Paul wrote. Paul once wrote "Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ." 1 Cor 11:1. This means if Paul was a chief sinner then Christ was a chief sinner as Paul followed Christ's example. Paul wrote Rom 6:6,11 "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin....Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. " If Paul was a sinner his old man was not crucified and he was not following his owns words in that Christians are not to serve sin and Paul would not be alive to God but alive unto sin.

 

[Butch5]

Their only argument would be a Christian can be a thief and still be saved, which they will have an impossible time proving this.

Exactly, that's when the Scriptural gymnastics begin.

 

[ezra]

so tell me ERNEST... do you worry about losing your salvation all the time?

 

[Dustoftheearth]

Repent metanoeō :

Thayer's Lexicon:

--To change one's mind,

--Used esp. of those who, conscious of their sins and with manifest tokens of sorrow, are intent on obtaining God's pardon

--To change one's mind for the better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins

--Conduct worthy of a heart change and abhorring sin

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3340&t=KJV


Matthew 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:"

Acts 26:20 "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."

Luke 13:3,5 "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.



Can a Christian steal his neighbors horse, keep the stolen horse yet maintain his salvation?

Let's take a biblical example:

Can a Christian have his father's wife and then boast about it, and still be saved if he has not repented of it?

1Cor 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.