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Revelation 17 Harlot

Actually man is not an eternal or everlasting being, man had a beginning, the word eternal when it comes to man is a bad translation and simply means age or ages. Yes man will live form one age to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, to another age, etc. Yes we both exist in reality, but God is a spirit I am flesh. I do not see God literally. Yes there will be a “new†heaven and “new†earth. This new heaven and new earth will not be a fallen state of death and carnal flesh. Jesus had a glorified flesh and we will we like him.

veteran said:
Benoni said:
You're simply not paying attention to how you use that word 'literal'. God's creation is just as 'literal' as He is, both exist in Reality, and both will continue to exist, everlasting. Or haven't you understood about the new heavens and a new earth He is going to work for His Eternity?

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If you had "eyes to see, and ears to hear", you would know better than to say Christ's Book of Revelation is all 'spiritual' and not literal.

I do see it is spiritual, you are the one giving your bias opinion based on who knows what and I am the one quoting God’s Word. You are the one who does not see. Unless you can stop quoting opinion and quoting God’s Word. Chapter and verse please?
 
God has His Mysteries of the Kingdom which He shows His servants who remain in Him, and then the devil has his own copy of 'mysteries' which were taught by the ancient pagan priests of occultism out of which came the various systems of occult 'mysticism' and ceremonial initiation. Only one initiated into the 'mysteries' was given its secrets by oral tradition. By the way, the word 'occult' means 'hidden'.

Is any one quoting the occult here? Just because the occult has mysteries does not stop God from hiding His deep and awesome word from the religious mind set. The word hidden is also used 17 times in the Bible.
 
How one goes about searching out a thing matters. How did Christ's Apostles receive the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven like our Lord Jesus said? Through oral traditions of men within occult mystery schools and the practice of mysticism, or by Divine revelation through The Holy Spirit? You don't have to become a mystery school initiate to receive understanding in God's mysteries of His kingdom. Nor can you go through man to get that.

Divine revelation is the way the Holy Spirit reveals the mysteries of His Word, not thought the traditions of man’s religion. This is a singular hearing not a plural hearing taught by Baby-lon. God’s Word, though His spirit and anointing. Not man’s seminaries based on some bias religious leader. You keep bringing up the occult as if it has any relevant to God’s Word; you the one quoting Webster.
 
Well, maybe you'll think next time you say something off the wall, like our Lord's Book of Revelation i has only 'spiritual' meaning, because that kind of statement is indeed aligned with the Christian Mysticism movements that came Europe to the Americas in the late 1800's.
 
What? Are we to believe our Lord literally meant the hidden estoric knowledge of occult arcana you seem to be pointing to?

What does this mean? You have two misspelled words and are getting a long way from quoting God’s Word. How about sticking to scripture?

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come.

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)


God’s Word is a long way from simple, unless of course you are speaking of the milk of the Word, any baby can drink milk.

The white stone in Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

This verse has a lot of deep spiritual meaning, notices the “ear†to hearâ€, not ears plural. It is speaking to the overcomers; there are two groups of people in the Book of Revelation. Those who overcome and everyone else.

Notice they are given the hidden manna, the hidden manna was in the ark, it did not perish and it was hidden from all except the high priest on the Feast of Tabernacles. Not like yesterday’s manna which was also food from God that had to be gathered daily, which is a great spiritual example like the yesterdays manna taught in religion today.. If you ate yesterdays manna is stunk. The new name speaks of a new name/nature character and authority and seeing only the overcomer will rule and rein with Christ this makes a lot of spiritual sense. So yes there are a lot of hidden spiritual symbolism to this awesome and deep verse which has nothing to do with the Occult which you seem really fascinated with. Yes the “initiated are those who have ear to hear, the Overcomers.



Is that "white stone" about some mysterious ancient mystery school teaching that only the initiated can know? That kind of thinking and working is not of God. That's how the pagan priests of old held control over the masses, treating God's Truth as some hidden mystery that only THEY could impart knowledge of. In doing that, they created all sorts of addition philosophical and hidden meanings on top of it, which is what the leaven of the scribes and Pharisees was even about. That's confusion, and it's not from God. Instead, God gives understanding that makes things simple to understand, removes the mysteriousness out of it. Satan's workers compound the mysterious instead.
 
You want to carnalize the most spiritual Book in the Whole Bible go for it. There is no doubt in my mind what I was saying was what God's Word declares. You are the one who keeps bringing up the Occult, this has nothing to do with some so called "Christian Mysticism movements" and everything to do with what God's Word is declaring.


veteran said:
Well, maybe you'll think next time you say something off the wall, like our Lord's Book of Revelation i has only 'spiritual' meaning, because that kind of statement is indeed aligned with the Christian Mysticism movements that came Europe to the Americas in the late 1800's.
 
If you are saying something to me it would be nice to know what you are saying, is my point.

mdo757 said:
Two misspelled words, oh my. The world is coming to an end. :nag :rolling
 
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Benoni, at least you do understand that scriptures have parables. I have come across Christians that were so literal, that they believed some of the most horrific things.
 
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Benoni said:
If you are saying something to me it would be nice to know what you are saying, is my point.

mdo757 said:
Two misspelled words, oh my. The world is coming to an end. :nag :rolling
I have had Christians say to me that they can not believe what I say has any truth because I misspelled a word. Don't sweat the small stuff.
 
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It has really nothing to do with spelling and everything to try and understand his view point. He is the one offended.

mdo757 said:
Benoni said:
If you are saying something to me it would be nice to know what you are saying, is my point.

mdo757 said:
Two misspelled words, oh my. The world is coming to an end. :nag :rolling
I have had Christians say to me that they can not believe what I say has any truth because I misspelled a word. Don't sweat the small stuff.
 
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The deeper you go the deeper He is.

mdo757 said:
Benoni, at least you do understand that scriptures have parables. I have come across Christians that were so literal, that they believed some of the most horrific things.
 
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The "initiated" have NOTHING to do with God's people. I'm not fasinated with the occult side of things, but you obviously are, otherwise you wouldn't be so ready to throw out the idea that Revelation is a "spiritual" work, and not literal. And you still don't know what that manna and white stone are.
 
If you have a problem with Revelation be a spiritual work then how about showing it is literal as you claim, seeing I showed you using Gods Word not my bias opinion it is spiritual.

Manna is simple it is God's Word.

"And will give him a white stone." Biblical history gives some interesting insight, five things of which we would make mention. Five is the number of grace, and GRACE stands out all the way, enabling us to gain the victory, and freely giving us all things.
1 ) The white stone bespeaks of acquittal. In their judicial process, coming to a decision, if they handed the individual a black stone, it meant condemnation; and sometimes the Greek word "theta" was engraved upon the stone, implying death. But if handed a white stone, it meant that he was judged not guilty. Thus to be handed a white stone, the overcomer has instant confirmation that he is fully justified, acquitted of all sin. "Therefore being justified by faith..." (Romans 5:1).
Justified-- NOT "just-as-if-I'd-never-sinned," as some teach, that holds the implication that you did sin, but we'll say you didn't. The Greek word does not allow such a doctrine, it literally means: NOT GUILTY, NEVER BEEN GUILTY. Yet we know that "All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23). How then can we be given a white stone? Because there is ONE LIFE that never did sin, He knew no sin, and He comes to dwell within us to BE OUR NEW LIFE. "No more I, but Christ liveth in me." Just as He is the hidden manna, He also is the sinlessness of the white stone. All of this is more of the revelation of Jesus Christ.
2) The white stone was given to the winner of a race, or contest. "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." ( 1 Corinthians 9:24). HE RAN! HE WON! And now in union with Him the overcomer shares the victory. "Thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ." (2 Corinthians 2:14).
White stones are also said to have been given to the victors in the Olympic games, with their names (or initials) engraved on them. "And in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." The name bespeaks of the nature, the character, and thus again it is a revelation of Him in us.
3) The white stone was used in the casting of lots in election, with the black stone for "nay" and the white stone for "yea." Jesus said, "Ye have not chosen Me, but I have chosen you." (John 15:16). "According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love." (Ephesians 1:4). And if He be for us, who can be against us?
4) The white stone was betimes handed to a guest, as a token of hospitality, a right to all that is in the house. He said, "In My Father's house are many mansions (rooms):... I go to prepare a place for you." (John 14:2). We are well aware that this is figurative language, but when He hands us that white stone, it is a word of WELCOME, your place is ready, you are joyfully received into Him, to share all the blessings of Father's house.
5) White stones were used in the allotting of an inheritance. We separated these points to examine them, but they all blend together. "He that overcometh shall inherit all things: and I will be his God, and he shall be My son." (Revelation 21:7). What tremendous love is revealed to us in the receiving of a white stone.
"He that overcometh, and keepeth My words unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of My Father. And I will give him the morning star." (Revelation 2:26-28).
How beautifully the revelation unfolds, step by step, as we come into this intimate relationship with our Lord. So one in Him, so overcome BY Him, that He can now share His power with us, literally, AUTHORITY to rule over the nations. This privilege comes after we have learned to fully yield ourselves to His authority. Thus we become a manifestation of His will and purpose in action-- an extension of His life in the earth.
Rule-- the Greek word means "to shepherd." This is no action of a tyrannical despot, but it is the tenderness of a shepherd, guiding in love, corrective when necessary, yet always the welfare of those in his care are his first concern. The subduing in all men shall be complete, even as it must be in us, but the end result is the total restoration of every man in Christ. "Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus." (Colossians 1:28). Thus shall he truly become "All in all."



veteran said:
The "initiated" have NOTHING to do with God's people. I'm not fasinated with the occult side of things, but you obviously are, otherwise you wouldn't be so ready to throw out the idea that Revelation is a "spiritual" work, and not literal. And you still don't know what that manna and white stone are.
 
You guys are driving me nuts. As Christians we need to be well balanced in all things. We always need to keep in mind that there are many parables at work in scripture. So then we need to be careful not to be to literal. We want to pay attention to the numbers, but not to the point we start believing in Numerology. Do not turn to the right or left, but maintain your balance.
 
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Benoni said:
If you have a problem with Revelation be a spiritual work then how about showing it is literal as you claim, seeing I showed you using Gods Word not my bias opinion it is spiritual.

First of all, the MAJORITY of the symbols given in our Lord's Book of Revelation come from OTHER Books in God's Word. A lot of it comes directly from the Old Testament Books of the prophets. For example, the symbolic locusts of Rev.9 comes from a teaching in the Book of Joel. The MYSTERY BABYLON idea comes from several Books of the O.T. prophets, like Isaiah and Jeremiah for starters. And there's many direct parallels in the start of Genesis with the last two chapters of Revelation, which also relates directly to the last 9 chapters of Ezekiel. There's also direct parallels in the Book of Daniel and with our Lord's Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Lamentations involves parts of Revelation too, likewise as the Pslams.

So when someone says Revelation is all meant in the 'spiritual' sense, it's like they're saying ALL of God's Word is only meant in the spiritual sense. Someone who has read and studied all The Bible would know better than to think that.

But false prophets long ago threw out the lie that Revelation may have come from a pagan writer, because of it reading so different than the other Books of the New Testament. The REALITY is that Revelation is NOT different than the rest of God's Word, because It contains ideas FIRST WRITTEN OF in the other Books of God's Word, especially the Old Testament prophets. The problem many have understanding our Lord's Book of Revelation is because they have not been faithful in studying all of God's Word, which is a requirement to understand It.

So was God's creation of the heavens and the earth, and His Garden of Eden with Adam a spiritual idea only? No, and neither will His forming of the new heavens and a new earth per the end of Revelation be just a spiritual idea either. Is that River mentioned at the end of Revelation just a spiritual idea? No, for that River flowed out of God's Garden in Eden to feed four OTHER literal rivers upon the earth, per Genesis 2. And in Ezekiel 47 we're even given on what area of the earth it will be located. That's literal, not spiritual.

Is the locust metaphor of Rev.9 spiritual? The metaphor itself is, but not the ones which the locust metaphor represents, because who it represents is very... literal, evil workers on the earth in the last days that literally rape the wealth of God's people, which is one of the matters God reveals about them in the Book of Joel.

Is that Holy City the New Jerusalem in Revelation situated in the Heavenly? Right now it is, but one day it won't. As described in Revelation it is shown coming down out of Heaven to the earth. Ezekiel 40-48 shows exactly where on earth it will be situated. Is that spiritual then? Only for someone who doesn't even know what the Books of the prophets contain, which is the case with lots of believers today.

BECAUSE our Lord Jesus pulled from so many... Scriptures in other Books of The Bible that acts as a safeguard against treating His Book of Revelation like some Gnostic spiritual gospel. But clearly, the Churches that teach the lie that all the Old Testament Books are now dead history, and thus treat Revelation like some great spiritual manifesto that has little or no substance in the rest of The Bible are leading many astray. And that's exactly how mysticism has crept into some types of Churches since the late 1800's and early 1900's.
 
The Catholic Church is generally thought of as the Mother Church. It makes this claim itself:

I acknowledge the Holy Catholic Apostolic Roman Church for the mother and mistress of all churches. — Art. 10, Creed of Pope Pius IV. Double Bull of Pope Pius IV, Nov. 13 and Dec. 9, 1564, trans. in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom, New York: Harper, 1919, Vol. 1, p. 99.

With this in mind, and with the knowledge that an immoral woman in Bible prophecy is the symbol of a false church, consider Revelation 17:1-6: “And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying to me, Come hither; I will show you the judgment of the great whore that sits upon many waters.”

You will remember that water represents humanity. “Many waters” in this verse, therefore, refers to the many nations over which this prostitute, the papacy, has influence. In other words this false church is worldwide, having its organization in every nation. Continuing with verse two: “With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

Fornication in this verse is referring to spiritual adultery, the defiling of the pure doctrine of the Bible with pagan practices and beliefs. Here we see that the nations of the earth have willingly accepted this harlot’s doctrine. Fornication also refers to the illicit union of the church and the state (nation) in which the church uses the police power of the state to enforce its doctrine.

Continuing with verse three: “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication.”

The cup filled with abominations and filthiness of her fornication and the wine mentioned in verse two represent the false, pagan doctrines that this church teaches. Verse two indicates that the entire world is drunk on this wine of the papacy. Practically the entire world has believed the lies and deceptions that the Roman Catholic Church has put forth as Bible truth. The world is so intoxicated on this wine of the papacy that people will not even listen to the truth, much less consider it. No wonder God warns us in First Peter 5:8 to be sober and not drunk on this wine of the papacy. “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour.”

Don’t misunderstand here. The Catholic Church is NOT a Christian religion. It is a strange combination of all the old pagan religions with a Christian facade. Just because they claim to be a Christian church does not make it so.

Continuing with Revelation 17:5, “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” Notice that Babylon is a name that the Bible gives to the harlot and her family, and it represents this mother church and all the false daughter churches. The word “Babylon” means “confusion.” What better term to describe the religious situation in the world today? This harlot, the Catholic Church, is the mother of harlots; she has spawned many other churches that teach much of the same doctrine that this mother church teaches, and they all worship on Sunday instead of Saturday, God’s holy Sabbath day of the fourth commandment.

Notice that the design on the Vatican 100 Lira coin displays a woman holding a cup in her hand with the symbol of the sun god in the cup. This is a rather graphic fulfillment of the prophecy in Revelation 17:4. It strongly implies that they know they are the great harlot of Revelation 17.

Remembering that the Catholic Church slaughtered hundreds of millions of God’s true Christians during the dark ages, continue with verse six: “And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.”

How many denominations are there of Christ’s true church, the one that He Himself established? Ephesians 4:4-6 tells us that there is one — and only one — true church. “There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” The 500 or so church denominations we find in the world today are the daughter churches of this harlot and are not of God, and they do not serve God, although they think they do. What better way for the devil to keep people out of Christ’s true church than to have some 500 denominations, each claiming to be the true church? It is easy to see why those searching for the truth would give up in despair. Satan is clever enough to make sure that when a person gets into one of his counterfeit churches, that person feels as if he were in God’s church. Satan provides all kinds of spiritual “highs” to make people believe that their experiences are from God. They are drunk on the wine of Babylon. How thoroughly Satan has deceived the people of the world! How complete is their deception at the hands of this master liar and his ministers! But God will never accept any of Satan’s counterfeit religions

all from THE MYSTERIOUS 666

of course the Mother makes her daughter look like her.
Rome is a decoy. she's equally apostate, but she ain't the Mother.
here's a glimpse into the very same thing:

interesting that it's HEROD.

7 Herods ruled as (Jewish converts) Kings in Jerusalem at the same time the 10 Caesars rules Imperially....i believe possibly the coming mosiach will be the eight "Herod" (Edomite) (?)

interesting that the "illegitimate wife" of herod gets her daughter to do the dirty work of talking the crazy king into killing the Baptist (type of christian?).

just sayin'...prolly nuthin' to it, but it's interesting.

zone.

Mark 6
21And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee; 22And when the daughter of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee. 23And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom. 24And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist. 25And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist. 26And the king was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath's sake, and for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her. 27And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison, 28And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother. 29And when his disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb.
 
You guys are driving me nuts. As Christians we need to be well balanced in all things. We always need to keep in mind that there are many parables at work in scripture. So then we need to be careful not to be to literal. We want to pay attention to the numbers, but not to the point we start believing in Numerology. Do not turn to the right or left, but maintain your balance.

ummm.....
you mean me?
i'm kinda new here, i came for this thread, and my studies show jerusalem is the Mother of Harlots.
just came to see if others had reached the same conclusions. not interested in arguing or convincing anybody of anything.
later
zone.
 
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