Roman Catholic Church Catechism English Translation 1994

[Lewis]

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_cult_of_mary.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/Catholicism/

http://www.canapologetics.net/html/roma ... cult_.html

I am just getting started, but I am tired tonight, so I will go at it tomorrow.

 

[thessalonian]

http://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_cult_of_mary.html

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/Catholicism/

http://www.canapologetics.net/html/roma ... cult_.html

I am just getting started, but I am tired tonight, so I will go at it tomorrow.

Can't you write anything for yourself. I am not going to read a bunch of rehashed tripe from biggots. I've seen it all before and it bores me to tears. Show that you know something yourself rather than believing what MEN say.

I can post 50 websites that actually explain Catholicism rather than bash it.

http://www.catholic.com
http://www.catholicconvert.com
http://www.catholic.org
http://www.phatmass.com
http://www.newadvent.org
http://www.scripturecatholic.com

That's enough for now.

Tell me why Protestant websites have to slander and post wickedness about Catholicism while the Catholic sites in general do not resort to mudslinging. The Protestant sites bring up the sins of men in Catholicism. That is the devil's way. Rubbing men's noses in thier sins and holding them over men. The Catholic Church could enumerate past sins of Protestants toward Catholics and there are alot. They could be whining about some sin of some past reformer such as Luther or the British government or the Hugonots or the Calvinist government of switzerland.. But you won't find that on these sites. You will just find a defense of the faith.

Check it out.

Blessings

 

[Gary]

Tell me why Protestant websites have to slander and post wickedness about Catholicism while the Catholic sites in general do not resort to mudslinging.

Again a generalization which is obviously false. I have many books on the Protestant vs RCC differences. There are many sites which point to the positive sides of Reformed faith. There are also many sites which show a genuine concern for unsaved Roman Catholics.

http://www.justforcatholics.org/

Welcome! This evangelical ministry is dedicated to Roman Catholics who desire to know how to be saved. It is our sincere desire to proclaim to you the Good News of Jesus Christ, because the Gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

I challenge you to find the "slander" about Roman Catholicism on this site.

P.S. An excellent section is this:
http://www.justforcatholics.org/answers.htm

 

[Gary]

Mary in the Bible

You don't know half of what is in the Bible about Mary.

Maybe you could enlighten us...... show us the verses in the Bible which explain or show us examples of the following RCC dogmas

• (1) The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
  
  (2) The Immaculate Conception (Mary born sinless)
  
  (3) The Sinlessness of Mary (Mary remaining sinless)
  
  (4) The Bodily Assumption of Mary (Mary bodily assumed into heaven)
  
  (5) The Mediatorship of Mary (Mary called/titled "Mediatrix" and "Co-redemptrix")
  
  (6) Praying to Mary

.... the easiest would be for you to quote Bible chapter/verse(s) for each of the above RCC dogmas.

Thanks!

 

[Theophilus]

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
She does not Mediate she intorcedes.

Luke 1:41
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
She is the Mother of God.

Luke 1:46
46 And Mary said: “ My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name.
She is blessed then, now and always.

 

[Solo]

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus
She does not Mediate she intorcedes.

And pray tell where in the scriptures does it say that Mary intercedes?

Luke 1:41
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! 43 But why is this granted to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
She is the Mother of God.

And was God around before Mary? Was the Word around before Mary? Was the Holy Spirit around before Mary? Yes, Yes, Yes. It sounds like some would rather worship a mere mortal woman and claim her as diety instead of worship God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Mary was the vessel that God used to become man. Mary is the mother of the man, Jesus; not the mother of God.

Luke 1:46
46 And Mary said: “ My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 48 For He has regarded the lowly state of His maidservant; For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 49 For He who is mighty has done great things for me, And holy is His name.
She is blessed then, now and always.

Mary is indeed blessed of God, but so are those that are poor in spirit, and those that mourn; blessed are the meek, and those that hunger and thirst after righteousness. Blessed are the merciful, the pure in heart, and the peacemakers. Blessed also are those that are persecuted for righteousness sake. Many are and will be blessed, but don't forget that the Word is the only one in the Bible that is said to be full of grace.

 

[thessalonian]

Tell me why Protestant websites have to slander and post wickedness about Catholicism while the Catholic sites in general do not resort to mudslinging.

Again a generalization which is obviously false. I have many books on the Protestant vs RCC differences. There are many sites which point to the positive sides of Reformed faith. There are also many sites which show a genuine concern for unsaved Roman Catholics.

[quote:a367d]

I will grant you that there are SOME who have a genuine convern. Your justforcatholics site is not one of them. I've actually spoken to Mr. Gendron over the phone before and emailed him. He is great at distorting Catholicism. His book, that I happen to have but can't recall the title offhand is full of lies. What I find funny though is that at one point in his book he claims he was a devout Catholic. At another point he says that he was leading a hedonistic lifestyle. : The former Catholics are the most blind. Let's take a look at this little tidbit from your favorite link above:

[quote:a367d]Answer: Consider first of all, the form of the rosary. It is 10 repetitions of the 'Hail Mary' for five times. What did our Lord say about repetitious prayer? "When you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words" (Matthew 6:6,7). Prayer is the spontaneous expression of the heart before God - of praise and thanksgiving, confession and petition. Repeating the same prayer over and over again tends to dull the mind. Such repetitions are vain and pagan.

[/quote:a367d][/quote:a367d]

So little to say, so much time, strike that, reverse it. First of all he does not give a complete picture of the rosary and therefore distorts what it does. Yes, if we were just rattling off Hail Mary's to our hearts content, likely it would be vain repetition. But the Rosary is a meditative prayer. We reflect on the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord in scripture. The Hail Mary's provide a background which believe it or not enhances concentration on these matters. The mother points to the son. Today when I said my rosary I reflected on Jesus agony in the garden, his scouraging, his crowning of the thornes, the carrying of the cross, and his crusifixion. How he finally died for me on that cross that he carried himself up that hill. Does that sound vain to you?

Now about vain repetition. Note it says vain and repetition. Not just reptitoin. Is it repetition that is bad? Let's see, in Matt 18 a blind begger says over and over so that it is irratating to the disciples, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me". We don't know how many times he said it but evidently quite a few. Did Jesus call him an idolaterous pagan using vain repetition? No, he cured the man.

What do the four living creatures before the throne of God say?

Rev.4
[8] And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!"

Never cease, do you know what that means. Now lets say it takes 5 seconds to say that. That is 12 times a minute. 720 times an hour. 24x720 times a day, 24x720x365 times a .... you get the picture. Vain repetition? I doudt it. So repetition is not really the problem you make it out to be and Mr. Gendron does a fine job of leaving out the details of the Rosary that clealy indicate it is not vain and there is much more to it than just the repetitious prayers.

Now a little teaser. Every heard the adage, a man who sings prays twice? I've been to Protestant services a time or two. Mainly baptist and non-denominational. They like to sing "our God is an awesome God he rains from heaven above".....Stanza...refrain "our God is an awesome..."

Oh my is that repetition? Oh, it must be vain repetition then by Mr. Gendron's standards. I will not go so far as he does and judge the hearts of men. I'm infinitely unqualified as well.

Blessings

 

[Gary]

Tell me why Protestant websites have to slander and post wickedness about Catholicism while the Catholic sites in general do not resort to mudslinging.

Again a generalization which is obviously false. I have many books on the Protestant vs RCC differences. There are many sites which point to the positive sides of Reformed faith. There are also many sites which show a genuine concern for unsaved Roman Catholics.

http://www.justforcatholics.org/

Welcome! This evangelical ministry is dedicated to Roman Catholics who desire to know how to be saved. It is our sincere desire to proclaim to you the Good News of Jesus Christ, because the Gospel is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

I challenge you to find the "slander" about Roman Catholicism on this site.

P.S. An excellent section is this:
http://www.justforcatholics.org/answers.htm

I will grant you that there are SOME who have a genuine convern. Your justforcatholics site is not one of them. I've actually spoken to Mr. Gendron over the phone before and emailed him. He is great at distorting Catholicism. His book, that I happen to have but can't recall the title offhand is full of lies. What I find funny though is that at one point in his book he claims he was a devout Catholic. At another point he says that he was leading a hedonistic lifestyle. : The former Catholics are the most blind.

You seem to be very confused. I never mentioned Mike Gendron. You post nonsense and opinions about someone and a site that I have not even mentioned!

:-? :-? :-?

 

[thessalonian]

You seem to be very confused. I never mentioned Mike Gendron. You post nonsense and opinions about someone and a site that I have not even mentioned!

:-? :-? :-?

Yes, you protestants love to boast of how confused we Catholics are. It was my mistake however. I thought the sight you linked to was Mr. Gendron's. His is pro-gospel.org. You site links to it. But the diddy about vain repetition which you did not bother to anwer was from the last link you gave me so apparently you are confused or are plugging websites when you don't even know what they say. I notice you did not answer my contentions but rather went on an attack toward me. That was the safest route I am sure.

Blessings

 

[Gary]

Mary in the Bible

You don't know half of what is in the Bible about Mary.

Maybe you could enlighten us...... show us the verses in the Bible which explain or show us examples of the following RCC dogmas

• (1) The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
  
  (2) The Immaculate Conception (Mary born sinless)
  
  (3) The Sinlessness of Mary (Mary remaining sinless)
  
  (4) The Bodily Assumption of Mary (Mary bodily assumed into heaven)
  
  (5) The Mediatorship of Mary (Mary called/titled "Mediatrix" and "Co-redemptrix")
  
  (6) Praying to Mary

.... the easiest would be for you to quote Bible chapter/verse(s) for each of the above RCC dogmas.

Thanks!

I notice you have still not answered this post. Any reason?

 

[Gary]

The Rosary

Question: I was taught that the rosary is scriptural because all 15 mysteries tell about the life of Christ. The "hail Mary" (the first part anyway) is taken directly from the Bible. Your thoughts?

Answer: Consider first of all, the form of the rosary. It is 10 repetitions of the 'Hail Mary' for five times. What did our Lord say about repetitious prayer? "When you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words" (Matthew 6:6,7). Prayer is the spontaneous expression of the heart before God - of praise and thanksgiving, confession and petition. Repeating the same prayer over and over again tends to dull the mind. Such repetitions are vain and pagan.

• Secondly, and more importantly, note that Jesus told us to address our prayer to God. "Pray to your Father." There is no example or permission in the whole Bible of Christians praying to anyone except God. And for a good reason. God is able to hear our prayers from heaven (there must be thousands of people praying at this very moment), because He knows all things. "whatever prayer, whatever supplication is made by anyone...then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and act, and give to everyone according to all his ways, whose heart You know - for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men" (1 Kings 8:38-39). God knows our heart and He hears our prayer. But Mary is not God. She is a finite human being. She does not know the hearts of all people. God alone knows them. "For You ALONE know the hearts of all the sons of men."

Thirdly, when Catholics pray to Mary: "Pray for us sinners, now and in the hour of our death," they are placing their trust for salvation in the hands of a creature, rather in the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Mary herself did not do so because she acknowledged God as her Savior (Luke 1:47). The Catholic Catechism explains the significance of the 'Hail Mary': 'Our trust broadens further, already at the present moment, to surrender the hour of our death wholly to her care' (paragraph 2677). Please find Acts 7:59 in your Bible and read about a Christian at the very moment before his death. To whose care did he commit his spirit before he died? And then ask yourself, to whom am I surrendering the hour of my death - to Mary (a saved creature) or to the Lord Jesus (our God and Savior)?

http://www.justforcatholics.org/a07.htm

:-?

 

[thessalonian]

Mary in the Bible

You don't know half of what is in the Bible about Mary.

Maybe you could enlighten us...... show us the verses in the Bible which explain or show us examples of the following RCC dogmas

• (1) The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
  
  (2) The Immaculate Conception (Mary born sinless)
  
  (3) The Sinlessness of Mary (Mary remaining sinless)
  
  (4) The Bodily Assumption of Mary (Mary bodily assumed into heaven)
  
  (5) The Mediatorship of Mary (Mary called/titled "Mediatrix" and "Co-redemptrix")
  
  (6) Praying to Mary

.... the easiest would be for you to quote Bible chapter/verse(s) for each of the above RCC dogmas.

Thanks!

I notice you have still not answered this post. Any reason?

Well, simply because I could easily write a book on each. I am sure I will get around to answering each one in time on this thread. Let's just say you don't know everything about scripture. But I also am afraid of a pearl casting venture.

 

[thessalonian]

The Rosary

Question: I was taught that the rosary is scriptural because all 15 mysteries tell about the life of Christ. The "hail Mary" (the first part anyway) is taken directly from the Bible. Your thoughts?

Answer: Consider first of all, the form of the rosary. It is 10 repetitions of the 'Hail Mary' for five times. What did our Lord say about repetitious prayer? "When you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words" (Matthew 6:6,7). Prayer is the spontaneous expression of the heart before God - of praise and thanksgiving, confession and petition. Repeating the same prayer over and over again tends to dull the mind. Such repetitions are vain and pagan.

I responded to his first of all. I have repeated it below for you.


I will be glad to go on to his second of all if you will respond to my response. Until then I would say your just sandbagging and have no good grasp of the subject matter. Is his claim that we are practicing vain repetion legitimate or was he being deceptive in not speaking of the FACT that the rosary is primarily about the life, death, and resurrection of Christ? Is he able to judge the hearts of men? Is repetition always vain?

So little to say, so much time, strike that, reverse it. First of all he does not give a complete picture of the rosary and therefore distorts what it does. Yes, if we were just rattling off Hail Mary's to our hearts content, likely it would be vain repetition. But the Rosary is a meditative prayer. We reflect on the life, death, and resurrection of our Lord in scripture. The Hail Mary's provide a background which believe it or not enhances concentration on these matters. The mother points to the son. Today when I said my rosary I reflected on Jesus agony in the garden, his scouraging, his crowning of the thornes, the carrying of the cross, and his crusifixion. How he finally died for me on that cross that he carried himself up that hill. Does that sound vain to you?

Now about vain repetition. Note it says vain and repetition. Not just reptitoin. Is it repetition that is bad? Let's see, in Matt 18 a blind begger says over and over so that it is irratating to the disciples, "Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me". We don't know how many times he said it but evidently quite a few. Did Jesus call him an idolaterous pagan using vain repetition? No, he cured the man.

What do the four living creatures before the throne of God say?

Rev.4
[8] And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all round and within, and day and night they never cease to sing, "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
who was and is and is to come!"

Never cease, do you know what that means. Now lets say it takes 5 seconds to say that. That is 12 times a minute. 720 times an hour. 24x720 times a day, 24x720x365 times a .... you get the picture. Vain repetition? I doudt it. So repetition is not really the problem you make it out to be and Mr. Gendron does a fine job of leaving out the details of the Rosary that clealy indicate it is not vain and there is much more to it than just the repetitious prayers.

Now a little teaser. Every heard the adage, a man who sings prays twice? I've been to Protestant services a time or two. Mainly baptist and non-denominational. They like to sing "our God is an awesome God he rains from heaven above".....Stanza...refrain "our God is an awesome..."

Oh my is that repetition? Oh, it must be vain repetition then by Mr. Gendron's standards. I will not go so far as he does and judge the hearts of men. I'm infinitely unqualified as well.

Blessings

 

[Gary]

Oh my is that repetition? Oh, it must be vain repetition then by Mr. Gendron's standards. I will not go so far as he does and judge the hearts of men. I'm infinitely unqualified as well.

I think we have already established that you have quoted the wrong person.....

:-?

 

[Gary]

Oh my is that repetition? Oh, it must be vain repetition then by Mr. Gendron's standards. I will not go so far as he does and judge the hearts of men. I'm infinitely unqualified as well.

I think we have already established that you are quoting the wrong person.....

:-?

 

[Gary]

Mary in the Bible

You don't know half of what is in the Bible about Mary.

Maybe you could enlighten us...... show us the verses in the Bible which explain or show us examples of the following RCC dogmas

• (1) The Perpetual Virginity of Mary
  
  (2) The Immaculate Conception (Mary born sinless)
  
  (3) The Sinlessness of Mary (Mary remaining sinless)
  
  (4) The Bodily Assumption of Mary (Mary bodily assumed into heaven)
  
  (5) The Mediatorship of Mary (Mary called/titled "Mediatrix" and "Co-redemptrix")
  
  (6) Praying to Mary

.... the easiest would be for you to quote Bible chapter/verse(s) for each of the above RCC dogmas.

Thanks!

I notice you have still not answered this post. Any reason?

Well, simply because I could easily write a book on each. I am sure I will get around to answering each one in time on this thread. Let's just say you don't know everything about scripture. But I also am afraid of a pearl casting venture.

The request was not for a book. The request is for you to quote the Bible. Remember, YOU claimed "You don't know half of what is in the Bible about Mary."

So enlighten us.... quote a few verses for each of the above RCC dogmas.

 

[thessalonian]

Oh my is that repetition? Oh, it must be vain repetition then by Mr. Gendron's standards. I will not go so far as he does and judge the hearts of men. I'm infinitely unqualified as well.

I think we have already established that you have quoted the wrong person.....

:-?

Are you going to deal with mere triflfes that I have already spoken of or get down to buisness and actually show you can debate for yourself. I cut and pasted from my previous post without correcting my previous foopaw. Sorry if that bothers you. The content of the information is what is important. I could care less really who wrote it.

 

[Gary]

Sorry for the double/triple posts..... only a bit of vain repetition!
:wink: :wink:

 

[thessalonian]

Sorry for the double/triple posts..... only a bit of vain repetition!

Are :wink:

: : :

That wasn't vain laughter.

 

[Lewis]

Can't you write anything for yourself. I am not going to read a bunch of rehashed tripe from biggots. I've seen it all before and it bores me to tears. Show that you know something yourself rather than believing what MEN say.

Well really there is not to much to say to you, because I see that even when you are shown proof, you still refuse to acknowledge' that the RCC, is full of unbiblical doctrine, from the Sunday Law Edict of March 7,321 A.D. on down, to this present day. When I was coming up as a kid I wanted to be a Catholic, because my friends and some family were. But man am I glad that I did not become one.