Roman Catholic Church Catechism English Translation 1994

[thessalonian]

Believers are saved from before the foundation of the world. If you have problems understanding the metaphors that Jesus gave of himself for teaching, and the purpose of the last supper, then do not attempt to try and understand predestination.

This seems like a copout answer to my post.

So you never had to repent, sins don't matter, you can fornicate for the rest of your life, deny Christ before men at least three times, but if your predestined, your going to heaven?

I believe in predestination but not in your version of it.

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

oops

 

[thessalonian]

Believers are saved from before the foundation of the world. If you have problems understanding the metaphors that Jesus gave of himself for teaching, and the purpose of the last supper, then do not attempt to try and understand predestination.

This seems like a copout answer to my post.

So now you are saying that you were saved even before Jesus death on the Cross?
So you never had to repent, sins don't matter, you can fornicate for the rest of your life, deny Christ before men at least three times, but if your predestined, your going to heaven?

I believe in predestination but not in your version of it.


How many times would Jesus have had to say "unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood you shall not have life within you." "MY FLESH IS TRUE FOOD, MY BLOOD IS TRUE DRINK", how many of his own disciples would he have had to let walk away before you would say, well he means it literally and like Peter, yes, what he said was hard to believe but Lord, you have the words of everlasting life. The Jews took him literally. Why didn't he tell anyone, even his own disciples that they were wrong in this.

Blessings

 

[Solo]

You will not see until God shows you the truth. Wafers and wine do not turn into Jesus Christ. What a joke.


Also Jesus was planned to be offered for the sin of man prior to the creation of the world. All that have come to believe in him, and those that have faith in God were in the works of being saved prior to the foundation of the world.

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; 19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Peter 1:18-23

Good luck pardner.

 

[bibleberean]

No believer was saved before the foundation of the world. The church not individuals are predestined for salvation.

We were all children of wrath before we believed. When we believed the gospel we were saved...

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The Roman Catholic church is apostate. It is not the church that Christ built.

It is a church of conflicting and confusing doctrines. There is no salvation in the Roman Church or it's Orthodox and Protestant off spring.

When a person is saved they are in the church not before...

It is possible for a Catholic , Orthodox or many Protestants to be saved but it will be in spite of their doctrines not because of them.

 

[Solo]

Correct. Until one is born of the Spirit, one is not saved. Did God know that I was going to be born of the Spirit before the foundation of the world? Yes. Did God know each and every one that would believe and every one that would not believe, and did he know before the foundation of the world? Yes. Is man free to choose what he believes? Yes.
Is the Roman Catholic Church doctrines false? Yes.

 

[thessalonian]

You will not see until God shows you the truth. Wafers and wine do not turn into Jesus Christ. What a joke.

This is an example of what I see out of the OSAS crowd. Not much sanctification going on. Ridicule even of God's Holy Word. Striving for holiness just isn't all that important. Sad. . I have no desire to believe in OSAS. I would rather believe that the Lord is guiding me accross the desert of life and if I follow him rather than my own thoughts about how I am already saved I will come out okay in the end. After all I might be decieving myself and never had really been saved in the first place. :

 

[thessalonian]

Correct. Until one is born of the Spirit, one is not saved. Did God know that I was going to be born of the Spirit before the foundation of the world? Yes. Did God know each and every one that would believe and every one that would not believe, and did he know before the foundation of the world? Yes. Is man free to choose what he believes? Yes.
Is the Roman Catholic Church doctrines false? Yes.

Of course God knew. What do you think we are, Open theists like many Protestants proclaim.
The grace had to be applied at a specific time is my point. In fact God's grace works in our lives daily.

What Roman Catholic doctrine is false? All of them? There is more than one. So are all of them false? (actually none of them are but I will humor you a bit). Is the one that we believe that Jesus arose from the dead and ascended in to heaven false? How about our Trinitarian doctrine? Is that false? From what I am reading we essentially agree on predestination. So far most of what I have seen concerning your "knowledge" of Catholicism makes you eminantly unqualified to judge it. You don't even know what the Church teaches half the time. The other half you don't know what the bible teaches.

 

[bibleberean]

I have not seen one word of ridicule of God's Holy Word in these posts from true Christians.

The RCC teaches that salvation is not possible without partaking in the Sacrament of Communion on the one hand and at the same time states that it is possible. :o

The RCC has damned everyone who does not believe the lie of Transubstantiation to an eternity in Hell.

Council of Trent

"If anyone says that in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular change of the whole substance of the bread into the body and the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the appearances only of bread and wine remaining, which change the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 79 -- Thirteenth Session, Chapter VIII, Canon 2)

Well, I say all of those things.

Christ's sacrifice on the cross is not perpetually reenacted on RCC altars.

The wafer god of Rome is not Christ.

The wafer god is Baal and the sun has always been it's symbol.

 

[thessalonian]

I have not seen one word of ridicule of God's Holy Word in these posts from true Christians.

The RCC teaches that salvation is not possible without partaking in the Sacrament of Communion on the one hand and at the same time states that it is possible. :o

The RCC has damned everyone who does not believe the lie of Transubstantiation to an eternity in Hell.

Council of Trent

"If anyone says that in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular change of the whole substance of the bread into the body and the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the appearances only of bread and wine remaining, which change the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 79 -- Thirteenth Session, Chapter VIII, Canon 2)

Well, I say all of those things.

Christ's sacrifice on the cross is not perpetually reenacted on RCC altars.

The wafer god of Rome is not Christ.

The wafer god is Baal and the sun has always been it's symbol.

Sigh. God bless you BB.

 

[bibleberean]

I have not seen one word of ridicule of God's Holy Word in these posts from true Christians.

The RCC teaches that salvation is not possible without partaking in the Sacrament of Communion on the one hand and at the same time states that it is possible. :o

The RCC has damned everyone who does not believe the lie of Transubstantiation to an eternity in Hell.

Council of Trent

"If anyone says that in the sacred and holy sacrament of the Eucharist the substance of the bread and wine remains conjointly with the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, and denies that wonderful and singular change of the whole substance of the bread into the body and the whole substance of the wine into the blood, the appearances only of bread and wine remaining, which change the Catholic Church most aptly calls transubstantiation, let him be anathema." (ibid., p. 79 -- Thirteenth Session, Chapter VIII, Canon 2)

Well, I say all of those things.

Christ's sacrifice on the cross is not perpetually reenacted on RCC altars.

The wafer god of Rome is not Christ.

The wafer god is Baal and the sun has always been it's symbol.

Sigh. God bless you BB.

I cannot accept blessings from non believers nor can I give them.

I will pray that God will bring people into your life to set you free from the bondage of your cult...

 

[thessalonian]

Cult? Non-believer? :D I can't accept your judgement because it is full of prejudice and distortion of what the Church teaches. I'll put my faith in Christ up against yours any day. I will give you my blessings wether you accept them or not. I pray that God will open your hard heart.

 

[bibleberean]

My faith is in the Jesus of the bible. The RCC has another Jesus and another gospel.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

I cannot accept blessings from non believers nor can I give them.

I will pray that God will bring people into your life to set you free from the bondage of your cult...

And there we have it, to receive blessing from a Papist would cause BB to become ceremonially unclean.

You will not see until God shows you the truth. Wafers and wine do not turn into Jesus Christ. What a joke.

Absolutely right. And virgins don't give birth, and people don't rise from the dead, axeheads don't float on water, nor can men walk on the water, whales don't swallow men, the sun never turns back in the sky, men born blind stay that way, and Jesus was just speaking metaphorically about eating His flesh, but just in case, everybody left.

My faith is in the Jesus of the bible. The RCC has another Jesus and another gospel.

So you say. You stomp your feet because Trent anathemizes those who do not accept the Real Presence, yet you call apostate those who accept the Real Presence. Just for your edification, I will fill you in on the difference between the anathemized and those called apostate- there is no difference.

Ergo, you have engaged in a stark hypocrisy on this thread.

Now, how shall we deal with your ridiculous sun themed montage? Why not accuse the Pope of being Aztec? They had sun themes everywhere also. Or how about the Beach Boys- maybe Catholics are in a Beach Boys cult.

There is truly no way to answer your propaganda without sounding like flaming- because, in essence, your montages are in fact flames, and do nothing to promote dialogue on a Christian forum.

 

[Solo]

I cannot accept blessings from non believers nor can I give them.

I will pray that God will bring people into your life to set you free from the bondage of your cult...

And there we have it, to receive blessing from a Papist would cause BB to become ceremonially unclean.

You will not see until God shows you the truth. Wafers and wine do not turn into Jesus Christ. What a joke.

Absolutely right. And virgins don't give birth, and people don't rise from the dead, axeheads don't float on water, nor can men walk on the water, whales don't swallow men, the sun never turns back in the sky, men born blind stay that way, and Jesus was just speaking metaphorically about eating His flesh, but just in case, everybody left.

Mary was a virgin and gave birth to Jesus Christ. Mary was and is a sinner saved by grace, and gave birth to Jesus' brothers and sisters. People have risen from the dead (Lazarus for one), and all will rise from the first death. Unbelievers will suffer the second death, therefore it is important to teach the truth as Jesus instructed. Elisha was a man of God and he had faith whereby the axe head floated a top of the water for recovery and safe return to its owner. Peter walked on water as he had faith to do so. A great fish swallowed Jonah, and through Jonah's prayer of faith, he was puked on shore alive. The sun stopped for Joshua that the Amorites might be slain. Some men that are born spiritually blind stay that way, while others that are physically blind are healed by God. Jesus was speaking metaphorically about eating his flesh, otherwise the disciples would have started to chow down. Seriously, if you want to keep pretending that you are eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ, knock yourself out.
Are you an atheist?
No, but it is interesting that you have copied the same argument above from atheist/skeptics pages.

My faith is in the Jesus of the bible. The RCC has another Jesus and another gospel.

So you say. You stomp your feet because Trent anathemizes those who do not accept the Real Presence, yet you call apostate those who accept the Real Presence. Just for your edification, I will fill you in on the difference between the anathemized and those called apostate- there is no difference.

Ergo, you have engaged in a stark hypocrisy on this thread.

Now, how shall we deal with your ridiculous sun themed montage? Why not accuse the Pope of being Aztec? They had sun themes everywhere also. Or how about the Beach Boys- maybe Catholics are in a Beach Boys cult.

There is truly no way to answer your propaganda without sounding like flaming- because, in essence, your montages are in fact flames, and do nothing to promote dialogue on a Christian forum.

You compare Catholics to people who committed human sacrifice, yet if you or yours are compared with people you find beneath contempt, you pull a red card.

The hypocrisy is monumental.

Catholics are no different from all mankind; they require the salvation of Jesus Christ. Where they are different is that they believe the doctrines of demons that come out of the hierchy of the Roman Catholic Church. The BODY OF CHRIST is the true Church of God, not the Roman Catholic Church. May God open your eyes to the truth so that you can preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[thessalonian]

My faith is in the Jesus of the bible. The RCC has another Jesus and another gospel.

I hear gongs and cymbals ring, are ya lisnen. Sorry folks, couldn't help it.

God bless once again dear sir.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

You will not see until God shows you the truth. Wafers and wine do not turn into Jesus Christ. What a joke.

Absolutely right. And virgins don't give birth, and people don't rise from the dead, axeheads don't float on water, nor can men walk on the water, whales don't swallow men, the sun never turns back in the sky, men born blind stay that way, and Jesus was just speaking metaphorically about eating His flesh, but just in case, everybody left.

Mary was a virgin and gave birth to Jesus Christ. Mary was and is a sinner saved by grace, and gave birth to Jesus' brothers and sisters. People have risen from the dead (Lazarus for one), and all will rise from the first death. Unbelievers will suffer the second death, therefore it is important to teach the truth as Jesus instructed. Elisha was a man of God and he had faith whereby the axe head floated a top of the water for recovery and safe return to its owner. Peter walked on water as he had faith to do so. A great fish swallowed Jonah, and through Jonah's prayer of faith, he was puked on shore alive. The sun stopped for Joshua that the Amorites might be slain. Some men that are born spiritually blind stay that way, while others that are physically blind are healed by God. Jesus was speaking metaphorically about eating his flesh, otherwise the disciples would have started to chow down. Seriously, if you want to keep pretending that you are eating the body and blood of Jesus Christ, knock yourself out.

Why would I knock myself out? Wouldn't that be an impediment to my gnawing (the Greek term used in "Eat my flesh" refers to gnawing) if I'm unconscious?

Oh, that's right, you're speaking metaphorically again.

By the way, you really didn't get my point, did you? You essentially qualified Jesus being present in bread and wine as impossible. I simply pointed out that God routinely does the impossible, the improbable, and the illogical. The foolishness of God is greater than the wisdom of your Reformed theology.

Can I get an amen?

Are you an atheist?

No, but it is interesting that you have copied the same argument above from atheist/skeptics pages.

Of course I did- I responded to your atheistic argument with other arguments of atheists, which you (predictably and correctly)reject.

Catholics are no different from all mankind; they require the salvation of Jesus Christ. Where they are different is that they believe the doctrines of demons that come out of the hierchy of the Roman Catholic Church. The BODY OF CHRIST is the true Church of God, not the Roman Catholic Church. May God open your eyes to the truth so that you can preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

Thank you for those unbiased and studied remarks.

 

[Solo]

Try posting this correctly. You have me quoting your quote, and you have cut and snipped it as normal.

Your ethical qualities are slowing a bit, but if you take a breath, lock in your brain, close your animosity vent, you will accomplish so much more.

One day you may even understand Biblical truths. Until then I will continue to pray for your mind to be transformed by the Word of God instead of being conformed to whatever your world consists of.

Good day.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Alright, let's take a breath and get back on target in here please. This is becoming WAY too personal and personal attacks are against the rules. Please, if you cannot post concerning the topic and not eachother, don't post. These things can get heated and emotional but we need to try and remember the ONE we are supposed to be here representing.

Thanks.

 

[Solo]

Alrighty then.

Back to the latest and greatest Roman Catholic Catechism published in Latin in 1992, and in English in 1994.

100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. Roman Catholic Catechism 1994

The interpretation of the prophesy of scripture is given to the holy Spirit and is of no private interpretation. Remember that the scripture is not by the will of man, but by holy men as they were moved of the Holy Spirit.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:19-21

Believers do not need that any man teach them, but the holy Spirit that lives in each believer will teach them all things.

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:20-27

The holy Spirit that dwells within believers reveals false doctrines and false prophets. The Spirit of God searches all things, the deep things of God. The things of God no man knows but the Spirit of God knows, and believers have been given the Spirit of God so that they may know the things that are freely given us by God. Believers speak not according to that which man's wisdom teaches, but by that which the Holy Spirit teaches. The natural man can not receive the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him; and he can not know them because they are only discerned by the Spirit. Believers that have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them judge all things, and is not judged by any man. Believers have the mind of Christ.


10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1 Corinthians 2:10-16