Roman Catholic Teachings Contradict the Bible

[francisdesales]

The vail repetition of prayer are those prayers that are prayers not praising, asking, or supplicating for needs of self or others. One example of a vain repetition would be the rosary taught by the Roman Catholic institution. The prayer of Jesus praying for the cup to be removed is not a vain repetitious prayer.

As usual, your own words will condemn you as a false or blind teacher.

Your above "proclamation" makes no distinction at all between the "vain rosary" and the "vain prayer of Christ" in the Garden. Merely because one is from Christ and the other is from the Catholic Church? Could you actually say something that points out the difference?

Any prayer with a request made over and over would not be a vain repetitious prayer, but a prayer such as the rosary is vain repetition.

Oh, that explains absolutely nothing! Desperate people take on desperate arguments with absolutely no logical explanation.

Slowly but surely, we are seeing the unraveling of your entire theme. In the last month, you have ranted and raved about how terrible the Catholic Church is, but have yet to prove or even logically argue ONE POINT YET! It is truly pathetic to see someone try to assault the Truth. In time, they are proven to be nothing but false teachers themselves.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

One last note: God will judge you the same way you judge others. If you keep nitpicking at what others are doing, then God will probably nitpick at anything you may do wrong. (Yes, and the same goes for me, too). This isn't whether you are right or wrong, but whether you are doing it in a loving way or in a judgmental way, whether you are doing to show what you know, or whether you are saying to help folks. You may think you doing it in a loving way, but it isn't coming across that way to the Catholics. They see it as an attack.

Well said, sister.

How about the following verse for Solo?

"But sanctify the Lord Christ in your hearts, being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you. But with modesty and fear, having a good conscience: that whereas they speak evil of you, they may be ashamed who falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ." 1 Peter 3:15-16

Without humility, we will never grow in Christ.

Regards

 

[D46]

I have a question for you, francis. When I was in the military I met many Catholics-Catholics who wore the St. Christopher metal around their necks and went through their rites now and then late at night...the rosary, etc. Not once did I ever hear any of them speak of God, Mary, or anything of a religious nature. Why? Were the just going through rituals that they were taught they should do or what was the reason for not attempting to speak of their belief?

I was married to a former Catholic from upstate NY for 18 years. I went many times to her parents house and saw the "Sacred Heart" of Mary pictures on the wall, a crucifix, and rosary beads, etc. In all those years, I never heard them proclaim the gospel of Christ, never once mentioned Jesus or their faith whatsoever. I'm talking about people that this is all they ever knew and was in this faith all their life. The nuns use too go get my ex-wife and bring her to school if her parents thought it too cold (usually according to her, that was 15-20 below freezing or worse).

I use to ask her why she, unlike her family (three brothers and sisters)left the Catholic faith. She said she just got weary with all the pomp and circumstance, the dead rituals and she never felt the presence of God in the church. One of her brothers and two sisters did finally leave and basically told me the same things. Her Mom died and her Dad remarried not long after that and of course, they had a Catholic wedding of which I was deemed to be the photographer. They went through all the ceremony and the reception and at no time did I ever hear any of them mention the goodness of God for bringing them together in the autumn of their years as not to be alone. It was all ritual with the taking of communion, some guys swinging containers with incense smoking and the worse organ music I've ever heard. It sounded more like a funeral than a wedding. Just curious what you think of all that.

 

[francisdesales]

I have a question for you, francis..

First, of all, thank you for the more serious and legitimate question, rather than the constant barrage of accusations. It is much appreciated. I will do the best to answer it, and you may judge for yourself whether it makes sense or not

When I was in the military I met many Catholics-Catholics who wore the St. Christopher metal around their necks and went through their rites now and then late at night...the rosary, etc. Not once did I ever hear any of them speak of God, Mary, or anything of a religious nature. Why? Were they just going through rituals that they were taught they should do or what was the reason for not attempting to speak of their belief?

To be honest, I am not sure on why that is. I have heard a theory that makes sense, perhaps it might to you, as well. Catholics are by nature more contemplative, more introspective regarding their religion. This is a generalization, of course. There are a number of Catholics who are more active in evangelizing. But by a general rule of thumb, most do not approach others and make the effort to "ram" their beliefs down the throat of others. They prefer the silent approach towards God. Protestants, by and large, are more evangelical. They are more open in their approach to sharing their faith with others. I have heard one person observing this as saying that Catholics take the feminine approach to God based on how Mary went to God (as related in Scriptures) while Protestants take a more masculine approach, more akin to St. Paul. I do not believe either approach is wrong, but that is how we look at our faith, I believe. This idea makes sense to me and is similar to the Mary/Martha approach found in John's Gospel. Both are absolutely necessary to building up the Kingdom of God. I have found that when questioned directly, Catholics will share their faith - although they usually do not approach others first. I believe that this is because Catholics take Mary's approach to God - the quite humble servant of God.

That's what I believe, anyway. It makes sense to me and fits in with both of our different approaches - BOTH of which are necessary.

I was married to a former Catholic from upstate NY for 18 years. I went many times to her parents house and saw the "Sacred Heart" of Mary pictures on the wall, a crucifix, and rosary beads, etc. In all those years, I never heard them proclaim the gospel of Christ, never once mentioned Jesus or their faith whatsoever. I'm talking about people that this is all they ever knew and was in this faith all their life. The nuns use too go get my ex-wife and bring her to school if her parents thought it too cold (usually according to her, that was 15-20 below freezing or worse).

While these devout people no doubt didn't know all the doctrines of Catholicism or memorized the Bible, you probably noticed their piety and love of God, their actions towards others. I believe God works among the "rank and file" in such manners. I don't believe that a person must KNOW the Bible or the Catechism to be especially holy or gracious or loving towards others. One verse I keep hearing in my mind is "knowledge puffs up, but love builds up" (1 Cor 8:1). Sure, I "know" a lot about my faith, but I often times wish I knew less and acted more in line with Christ's teachings of simplicity, love, humility, and obedience to His will in my life. But this is who I am now, the way God made me...

I use to ask her why she, unlike her family (three brothers and sisters)left the Catholic faith. She said she just got weary with all the pomp and circumstance, the dead rituals and she never felt the presence of God in the church. One of her brothers and two sisters did finally leave and basically told me the same things. Her Mom died and her Dad remarried not long after that and of course, they had a Catholic wedding of which I was deemed to be the photographer. They went through all the ceremony and the reception and at no time did I ever hear any of them mention the goodness of God for bringing them together in the autumn of their years as not to be alone. It was all ritual with the taking of communion, some guys swinging containers with incense smoking and the worse organ music I've ever heard. It sounded more like a funeral than a wedding. Just curious what you think of all that.

Again, thanks for sharing. I was raised Catholic and fell away for over 20 years when I first joined the Marines. Although I knew all the practices, I was ill-prepared for the questions that lay ahead and temptations that I faced as a young man in that sort of atmosphere (you likely will know what I am talking about, being a former military man!). I truly believe that Vatican 2 was God's way of slapping the Church around and waking it up. The Church had really fallen into lethargy, concentrating on the rituals for the sake of doing rituals. I hope you will find that I can be very honest about such matters. When I see my Church make mistakes, I will try to face them and comment on them. No doubt, the Catholic Church from Trent to Vatican 2 was painting itself into a corner, so to speak, in fighting not only Protestantism, but also Jansenism (overemphasis on rituals - anyone who faced a mean nun was likely a victim of the after-effects of this heresy!) and the Enlightenment. The Church faced attack from all directions, from within and without. Those who wanted to "reform" it and those who wanted to remove it as inconsequential (call them "secularists).

Without further babbling, I believe that the Spirit was truly re-energizing the Church with Vatican 2 - esp. in its documents of "The Church in the Modern World". The Church was no longer to be painted into a corner and separate from the world - but it was MEANT to be the light of the world, a community where Christ's light continues to shine. Such change in attitudes and priorities has taken some time, and there have been growing pains while the old dead wood is removed. Thus, I think that people who were Catholic had to struggle with the "change" in priorities - or perhaps, a re-establishment of what is important in the life of the Church. After reading the Vatican 2 documents, that is why I have remained (or came back)

More to come,

Regards

 

[Lewis]

You know today' I was flipping channels and ran across the Catholic station so I paused for a minute to watch. And they were saying Hail Mary Full Of Grace. And it repulsed me, and to keep doing that in repitition. Should not it be Hail Jesus Full Of Grace ? Instead of His mother who has no power. who died and was buried and did not raise on the 3rd day.

 

[D46]

I'll "chew" on this for a while, francis. Like I said, I was curious about it all. By the way, as for Vatican II, I understand a lot of traditionalist don't care for Vatican II and would like to go back before that took place...like the mass in Latin as it use to be. Some folks don't except change-regardless the denomination. Much of what you said does make sense as to what I asked.

 

[unred typo]

Solo wrote:"The Holy Spirit dwells within all believers 100% of the time. Paul said that believers have the mind of Christ. Paul and Peter recognized false teachers and false teachings and unbelievers at every turn, because the Holy Spirit directed them. When love is the prime goal of a believer, he/she will rebuke, reprove, and correct the false teachings of the devil in order to protect those who are being lied to and deceived. If one does not do so, how is ignoring this called love? How can ignoring the discernment given by the Holy Spirit called love? It isn't called love, it is called sin."



You might be right there. The Holy Spirit may be always within us but we may not always be in him. Having the Holy Spirit within doesn’t seem to be a guarantee that we are abiding in love, in Christ, in righteousness or in his word, actually. Only when we give control to the Spirit and follow the leading of the Spirit are we abiding in the Spirit. We have a witness to the truth but we may choose to ignore that and grieve the same Spirit who convicts us of sin and convinces us of what is right and true.

No one said you shouldn’t rebuke, reprove and correct the false teachings of the devil. No one even said you should ignore the discernment of error. I even said, “Judge their actions and their doctrine but not their hearts.†You don’t know their motives and you can’t judge them and pronounce them worthy of hell. That judgment has been reserved for Christ and those he will appoint at the judgment in the end. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 would be a good read for you.

 

[Solo]

Solo wrote:"The Holy Spirit dwells within all believers 100% of the time. Paul said that believers have the mind of Christ. Paul and Peter recognized false teachers and false teachings and unbelievers at every turn, because the Holy Spirit directed them. When love is the prime goal of a believer, he/she will rebuke, reprove, and correct the false teachings of the devil in order to protect those who are being lied to and deceived. If one does not do so, how is ignoring this called love? How can ignoring the discernment given by the Holy Spirit called love? It isn't called love, it is called sin."



You might be right there. The Holy Spirit may be always within us but we may not always be in him. Having the Holy Spirit within doesn’t seem to be a guarantee that we are abiding in love, in Christ, in righteousness or in his word, actually. Only when we give control to the Spirit and follow the leading of the Spirit are we abiding in the Spirit. We have a witness to the truth but we may choose to ignore that and grieve the same Spirit who convicts us of sin and convinces us of what is right and true.

No one said you shouldn’t rebuke, reprove and correct the false teachings of the devil. No one even said you should ignore the discernment of error. I even said, “Judge their actions and their doctrine but not their hearts.†You don’t know their motives and you can’t judge them and pronounce them worthy of hell. That judgment has been reserved for Christ and those he will appoint at the judgment in the end. 2 Timothy 2:24-26 would be a good read for you.

Believers are mandated to judge righteously. Believers do not judge one to hell. That is done at the judgement seat of Jesus Christ. Believers will judge the angels, and they will also judge world; therefore, it would appear that believers are able to discern the truth and recognize the lies and deceptions set as traps for the unlearned. Whose responsibility is it to preach the truth to those who are entering the place of error? Who is it that should preach the truth as our brother and sisters in the Lord did from Pentecost onward?

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. John 7:24

The Word will be the final judge, and the word today is used to reprove, correct, and rebuke teaching all righteousness so that those who live against the word of God can be taught the truth in order to repent and be saved from a cruel judgement.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. John 12:48

Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. Acts 14:36

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? 1 Corinthians 6:2-3

 

[Jon-Marc]

Actually, Solo, the Judgement Seat of Christ is the place where the believers' works (not their sins which were paid for on the cross) will be judged. The judgement of the lost will be at the Great White Throne Judgement.

 

[francisdesales]

You know today' I was flipping channels and ran across the Catholic station so I paused for a minute to watch. And they were saying Hail Mary Full Of Grace. And it repulsed me, and to keep doing that in repitition. Should not it be Hail Jesus Full Of Grace ? Instead of His mother who has no power. who died and was buried and did not raise on the 3rd day.

I understand what you are saying. It is a devotion that not everyone finds "useful" in coming to Christ. The whole point of the rosary is to concentrate on the life of Christ, believe it or not. The repetitiveness of the Hail Mary's are supposed to establish a background for one to enter into meditation. Various methods can be used to enter into this higher prayer form. It is a sort of mantra that prepares the mind to focus on Christ, rather than what you are going to cook for dinner or what your son is doing with his friends. These things enter into the mind during prayer. However, by the recitation of Hail Mary's or some other form of repetitiveness or breathing exercise, one is more able to focus on moving our minds to Christ.

Perhaps you watched the rosary being said long enough for them to announce the Mystery being contemplated. For example, the first mystery of the "joyful" Rosary is the Annunciation. We then contemplate the mystery of God coming to Mary and the Logos being conceived and taking on flesh within her. Or we contemplate her "yes" to the Lord, praying that we, too, can say "yes" to God while not understanding fully His Plan. The Hail Mary prayers are more for markers of time than anything else. When you get to the tenth bead, mentally, you'll know it is time to move on to the next contemplation.

Some people pray what is called a "Scrptural" Rosary (I do). After the Hail Mary, you read one verse that focuses on that mystery (e.g. the Annunciation). It helps in focusing on the event. There are also alternative prayers that can be said for those who are for some reason scandalized by saying Hail Mary's! The point is that the rosary is supposed to move our minds to contemplate the Lord's life and God's plan of salvation through the Work of Jesus Christ.

For many people, it has been a useful way of praying to God - and this form of prayer is better than just "gimmie, gimmie, God". By our contemplating the life of Christ, we learn to be more like Him while dying to ourselves. Most people who practice this devotion find it quite useful, both Catholic and Protestants.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I'll "chew" on this for a while, francis. Like I said, I was curious about it all. By the way, as for Vatican II, I understand a lot of traditionalist don't care for Vatican II and would like to go back before that took place...like the mass in Latin as it use to be. Some folks don't except change-regardless the denomination. Much of what you said does make sense as to what I asked.

Unfortunately, many Catholics had placed their trust on the ritual of the Mass without realizing was its purpose - to move the mind to CHRIST (among other things). Some people had felt the Church betrayed them by changing the ritual (such as using the local language rather than Latin). What people didn't understand (at least the average Joe) was that signs and symbols take on new meanings while different symbols can better represent what is happening. The invisible doesn't change. God never changes - but the Church can change ritual procedures to better take into account society's change of symbols and the meanings attached to them. Thus, when the Church tried to make the Liturgy connect with the average person, make the Church more part of man's life, some people had problems. Some still do, as you mention.

Another example of this is the recent scandals in the Church. When a trusted priest (or pastor in Protestant circles) betrays the trust of the community by being accused of sexual harrassment, some people decide to leave the Church. They had put their religion in the outward appearances of that particular man, forgeting that man will EVENTUALLY fail and not be a perfect symbol of the Risen Christ. Thus, the two above reasons account for many people leaving the Church - all the wrong reasons, of course. Leave the Church if it teaches falsehood. People, however, often focus on the outer appearances of religion forgetting that these are incomplete and imperfect signs that point to Christ (both the rituals and the priest/pastor) Thus, when a ritual is changed or a priest messes up - their religious basket of eggs falls to the ground and is destroyed.

Those who are able to realize that the externals are aides, but are NOT the ends of worship, are better equipped to handle the problems that will eventually come up in any particular community, whether it is Catholic or Protestant - as Protestants have the same problems... People in Protestant communities also leave over disagreement in liturgy or over personal issues between other parishoners or the pastor. We are all human and when we place ALL of our trust in the human element of religion, we are bound to be in for a disappointment. However, it is the pattern of worship that God has given us - to come to Him in community with others. Proper focus is quite helpful here.

Regards

 

[Solo]

Actually, Solo, the Judgement Seat of Christ is the place where the believers' works (not their sins which were paid for on the cross) will be judged. The judgement of the lost will be at the Great White Throne Judgement.

True, for believers have had their sins paid for.

 

[Imagican]

fran,

Here's a 'good one' for you. I have met and made friends with a number of Catholics. Being a 'curious sort' I have asked EACH of them one time or another WHERE all the 'ritual' comes from. I mean, it's NOT in The Bible, so where does it come from. the UNANIMOUS answer; 'you know,....I don't know'. What kind of an answer is this pertaining to something of such import? That those that have accepted this 'religion' don't even know ANYTHING about the 'WHY' of it?

So, once given this answer, I then explained to them the 'truth' and each time they were utterly dumbfounded. Agreeing EACH ONE OF THEM, that they were NEVER encouraged to read The Word but instead simply taught the 'ritual' that takes place durring mass, (the 'hail Mary' stuff, etc........).

And fran, out of the five that I personally KNOW that ARE Catholic, there is NOT ONE that has even a cursory understanding of The Word. They each know of a couple of Saints and what the holidays of the CC are, but other than that, they know NOTHING about God's Word itself. Pretty amazing that THE CHURCH would have members that are SO ignorant of God's will for us. These simply attended the church and learned ALMOST NOTHING from it other than it's 'man-made' traditions.

My point? Could this TRULY be God's will for those that He loves? That they simply lead their lives devoted to 'a church' instead of God Himself? That these worship MARY instead of God's SON? Kind of a 'strange way' to 'please' God if you asked me. Pleasing God through a devotion to a 'man-made' church? When in reality The Church is nothing more elaborate than the body of beivers in Christ. Yet the CC seems to be more about an elaborate building and 'man-made' ritual. Very little offering of The Word or even the overwhelming significance of Jesus Christ Himself. 'Strange' indeed.

MEC

 

[francisdesales]

fran,

Here's a 'good one' for you. I have met and made friends with a number of Catholics. Being a 'curious sort' I have asked EACH of them one time or another WHERE all the 'ritual' comes from. I mean, it's NOT in The Bible, so where does it come from. the UNANIMOUS answer; 'you know,....I don't know'. What kind of an answer is this pertaining to something of such import? That those that have accepted this 'religion' don't even know ANYTHING about the 'WHY' of it?

Well, frankly, that does bother me. Of course I wish more Catholics were serious about the knowledge of their faith. But I know a number who are. And even those whom you asked know something (you claim they don't know ANYTHING). People "know" things without being able to explain them. If you aren't a mechanic, do you know how a car runs? If you aren't a computer technician, do you know how a computer works? Do you know how the Internet works? There are a number of things we just "do" but not know or can explain the "why". Sure, I wish more Catholics knew more about their faith. But quite honestly, one isn't going to take a quiz on Catholicism 101 before being allowed into heaven. I happen to teach the Catholic faith, so I am familiar with it and take it seriously. But that doesn't make me any holier than a simple peasant somewhere in Russia who is devout in his faith. Knowledge is nothing without love.

"Knowledge puffs up, love builds up". 1 Cor 8:1

So, once given this answer, I then explained to them the 'truth' and each time they were utterly dumbfounded. Agreeing EACH ONE OF THEM, that they were NEVER encouraged to read The Word but instead simply taught the 'ritual' that takes place durring mass, (the 'hail Mary' stuff, etc........).

You no doubt spoke with older Catholics or Catholics who haven't a clue, as the Church since Vatican 2 has over and over again expressed the need to read Scriptures - not that everything is in the Bible - but to know Scriptures is to know Christ (St. Jerome). I, too, have spoken with many Protestants who don't know the Bible very well. This includes those who come to my door and try to evangelize me! They know 10-15 or so verses taken out of context and give a canned speech... Big deal. When I direct them off their canned speech, they are lost. They know their pastor's opinion on giving money. But what do they KNOW about God? We come to know God experientially - and often times, that doesn't mean through a book, if you get my drift.

And fran, out of the five that I personally KNOW that ARE Catholic, there is NOT ONE that has even a cursory understanding of The Word. They each know of a couple of Saints and what the holidays of the CC are, but other than that, they know NOTHING about God's Word itself. Pretty amazing that THE CHURCH would have members that are SO ignorant of God's will for us. These simply attended the church and learned ALMOST NOTHING from it other than it's 'man-made' traditions.

There a millions and millions of Catholics, and the chances are good that you know five nominal Catholics... I would venture to say, from my experience directly with Catholics, that about 25-50% of those who go to Church on Sundays read the Scriptures "often", meaning several times a week. This is not scientific, but I know a lot of people and many practice reading Scriptures as a private devotion while others have the Scriptures proclaimed to them in daily Mass. In three years, we hear a big chunk of the Bible, even if one doesn't take a Commentary to it, it affects our lives. I would reserve judgment until you spoke with someone who was a devout Catholic with some knowledge of their faith. You will find that they also read the Bible quite often, esp. the Gospels.

My point? Could this TRULY be God's will for those that He loves? That they simply lead their lives devoted to 'a church' instead of God Himself? That these worship MARY instead of God's SON? Kind of a 'strange way' to 'please' God if you asked me. Pleasing God through a devotion to a 'man-made' church? When in reality The Church is nothing more elaborate than the body of beivers in Christ. Yet the CC seems to be more about an elaborate building and 'man-made' ritual. Very little offering of The Word or even the overwhelming significance of Jesus Christ Himself. 'Strange' indeed.

Come on... You know darn well we don't worship Mary or that we are "devoted" to a church led from Rome. We, like Protestants, worship God in a community setting. We have different rituals - and Protestants DO have rituals - and different means of coming to experience God. The problem I see in your thinking is that you are forming a false dichotomy between Christ and His Church. The Church IS the Body of Christ, a community of believers. Are you going to deny that the Bible shows a visible community of believers? This visible community is the manifestation of God's continued presence in the world. It is a sign and instrument of the union between God and man. When a non-believer asks questions about God, he is going to refer to the Church in some manner. He is going to look to it as a sign of what God is doing in the world. WE are the light of the world - continuing God's work in bringing the Kingdom of God to others. How is this all done without the Church? God doesn't come to mankind WITHOUT the Church. Sure, He could, but out of love, He allows us to participate in calling men to Himself.

I assure you, the Catholic Church is NOT about a building or rituals. Perhaps to you, looking from the outside, it might appear that way. But a properly formed Catholic knows that the community of believers is the Church, not the building. The Bible is read at EVERY Mass. And Jesus Christ is the center of our worship. We don't do anything religious without in some way invoking Jesus Christ. I suppose you believe that the rituals separate us from Christ, but that is not the case - just the opposite.

Regards

 

[thessalonian]

Only those in bondage of the Roman Catholic teachings that have not had the wakening of the Holy Spirit, who adhere to the teachings of men, instead of the teachings of Jesus Christ will remain in the Roman Catholic institution.

Only those who are born of God will become members of the body of Christ Jesus. I have read hundreds of testimonies of Ex-Roman Catholics who have been born again, and are now children of God. They all say that the Roman Catholic Church does not teach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I have known this for 23 years.

I post against the lies of satan with malice. I do not coddle his teachings one iota. I hate the teachings of satan, and will speak against his lies and deceptions until the day that Jesus returns.

Well you've convinced me solo. I'm not going solo.

God bless you solo. I miss you guys over here. Wish I could be here more. Like SFD said, I hear many testimonies of ex-protestants as well. Funny thing is they don't have to distort the teachings of others in their testimonies. Ex-Catholics seem to all regurgitate parts of Boetner's book. Peace dude. Love ya.

 

[Lewis]

Good to see you Thess' I have asked about you.

 

[thessalonian]

I pop in on occasion.

God bless

 

[jgredline]

Al Mohler is one of the best theologians of our time. Here is what he had to say about the Catholic Church.....


Mohler calls Catholicism 'false church'
___LOUISVILLE, Ky. (RNS)--The president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has called the Roman Catholic Church "a false church" that "teaches a false gospel."
___Appearing on CNN's "Larry King Live," Al Mohler was speaking on Pope John Paul II's pilgrimage to Israel and his recent apologies for the past sins of the Catholic Church. While stopping short of calling the Catholic Church a "cult," Mohler said the Catholic hierarchy is unbiblical.
___"As an evangelical, I believe the Roman church is a false church and it teaches a false gospel," Mohler said. "I believe the pope himself holds a false and unbiblical office."
___Mohler was asked if he shares the views of Bob Jones University, a fundamentalist college in Greenville, S.C., in the center of a firestorm of controversy after Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush appeared there.
___The university believes Catholics and the pope are agents of the anti-Christ. When Bush failed to speak out against the school's theology, he was dogged by several weeks of criticism until he apologized to New York Cardinal John O'Connor for failing to criticize the school. Bush called it a "missed opportunity causing needless offense, which I deeply regret."
___Mohler also criticized the pope's efforts to create a dialogue with Jews and Muslims. Judaism, Islam and Christianity all share the belief in one God and share historical roots with the biblical patriarch Abraham.
___The pope "has actually embraced all monotheists, both Jews and the followers of Islam, as long as they're sincere within the penumbra of the gospel, within the canopy of the gospel," Mohler said. "And that is just unbiblical, and by the way, not very pleasing to either Jews or to Muslims."
___William Byron, a Catholic priest and director of the Jesuit community at Georgetown University, also appeared on the March 22 show. He said he disagreed with Mohler's comments but did not want to discuss it further.
___"Yes, I'm offended, but not to the point of wanting to get into an argument about it," Byron said.

 

[William Putnam]

This is a form of fasting. When is fasting considered a doctrine of demons? The Scripture is refering to abstaining ALWAYS from particular foods, as in the Old Testament. Paul is refering to Judaizers who claim one must CONTINUE to abstain ALWAYS from "unclean" animals. God revealed to the Church through Peter that all foods were clean. The Catholic practice of abstaining on Friday from meat is a form of fasting that is meant to develop our spirituality. Sort of like running develops our physical body. How are you going to ward off temptations if you can't even refrain from eating meat one day a week? And finally, this is a discipline, not a doctrine, as the Church allows one to eat meat on Fridays except Lent. In the past, ALL Fridays were meatless in Catholic houses. Busted

Not convinced? You want Catholic beliefs from Scriptures?

Go to http://scripturecatholic.com/. You can find all the Scripture and Church Father verses on nearly any subject. The problem is not that the Catholic doctrines are not found in the Bible. The problem is that many people do not know what the Church teaches, although it puts out a book called the "Catechism" that describes all of its teachings. Perhaps if these "Catholics" would have read the book BEFORE leaving the faith (if they were ever Catholic), then must misunderstanding would be cleared away.

Regards

Wow!

I am recent in this thread, and having gone through it, I simply wanted to say BRAVO to you, Francis! I knew there were Catholics here in defence of the Holy Faith, but your reply here is awesome!

Others know me from past postings here, notibly thessalonian, whom I recognised right away. I am "vacationing" here from CARM for Advent, but I will return there after the New Year, but I do think I should stick around here more. CARM can be brutal if you have not been there.

Anyway, I would give you a gold star in this forum if it were available!

God bless,

PAX

Bill+†+


Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!

 

[Solo]

This is a form of fasting. When is fasting considered a doctrine of demons? The Scripture is refering to abstaining ALWAYS from particular foods, as in the Old Testament. Paul is refering to Judaizers who claim one must CONTINUE to abstain ALWAYS from "unclean" animals. God revealed to the Church through Peter that all foods were clean. The Catholic practice of abstaining on Friday from meat is a form of fasting that is meant to develop our spirituality. Sort of like running develops our physical body. How are you going to ward off temptations if you can't even refrain from eating meat one day a week? And finally, this is a discipline, not a doctrine, as the Church allows one to eat meat on Fridays except Lent. In the past, ALL Fridays were meatless in Catholic houses. Busted

Not convinced? You want Catholic beliefs from Scriptures?

Go to http://scripturecatholic.com/. You can find all the Scripture and Church Father verses on nearly any subject. The problem is not that the Catholic doctrines are not found in the Bible. The problem is that many people do not know what the Church teaches, although it puts out a book called the "Catechism" that describes all of its teachings. Perhaps if these "Catholics" would have read the book BEFORE leaving the faith (if they were ever Catholic), then must misunderstanding would be cleared away.

Regards

1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. 2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God: they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in approaching to God.

3 Wherefore have we fasted, say they, and thou seest not? wherefore have we afflicted our soul, and thou takest no knowledge? Behold, in the day of your fast ye find pleasure, and exact all your labours. 4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high. 5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD? 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? 7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy reward. 9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity; 10 And if thou draw out thy soul to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: 11 And the LORD shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. 12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.
Isaiah 58:1-12