Sabbath Day business

[Jethro Bodine]

It's about the scripture you quoted from Romans... faith in Christ fulfills the law of Moses.

You scripture does not say that.

It says love fulfills...

"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. (Galatians 5:6 NASB)
"love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:10 NASB)

See it yet?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Too bad he rejects Jesus as Lord [YHWH].

The very requirement of the Gospel for salvation.

I'm pretty sure he cleared that up, but you did not listen.

 

[JLB]

"6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. (Galatians 5:6 NASB)
"love is the fulfillment of the law." (Romans 13:10 NASB)

See it yet?

I see where love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:10

I see where circumcision means nothing, which was the foundational requirement of the law of Moses, because faith working through love is what God desires.

Noah was an excellent example of faith working through love.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Noah showed he loved God and loved his family through the obedience of faith.

A faith working by love.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I see where love is the fulfillment of the law. Romans 13:10

I see where circumcision means nothing, which was the foundational requirement of the law of Moses, because faith working through love is what God desires.

Noah was an excellent example of faith working through love.

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

Noah showed he loved God and loved his family through the obedience of faith.

A faith working by love.


JLB

So Noah fulfilled the law through his faith that loves. That's what I've been saying.

 

[smaller]

He keeps Sabbath, for example, for the same reason I and others keep 'do not steal'--to do right before God, not so we can be declared righteous by that right doing, but because both of us know that the faith that justifies all by itself is the faith that is then seen in it's obedience to do right (you know, your former teaching 'faith=obedience').

This is actually one of the things that stirred my insights into this matter. Here I was bashing law keepers for keeping the law as if wanting to do rightoeus works automatically meant trying to make yourself righteous before God, all the while I'm obeying the commands to not steal, not commit adultery, etc. I realized even I obey the law, but not for the reason of trying to justify myself. I suddenly realized it's entirely possible to do that. I was doing that, lol!

You may "think" you are doing that in the "external senses." But the law does teach that even the mere THOUGHT of sin, is in fact SIN.

Matt. 5:28. Matt. 15:19-20 Mark 7:21-23

NO one escapes the conclusions of the LAW, that we are in fact sinners, all. Regardless of what transpires on the outside of the cup.

Those who think they are "externally" lawful have not yet dealt with the factual "evil" in their own thoughts, and to see THIS is in fact also SIN.

The Law in this way "exposes" us all for what we really are. OR turns us into ripe hypocrites, pretending we are legal on the outside and denying that we do have "evil thoughts" which DEFILE us. That is the first step into hypocrisy. We have been openly WARNED by Jesus NOT to fall into that trap.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

Those denying that conclusion are in fact, in denial of scriptures conclusion in this matter.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He cleared it up alright, and I heard him loud and clear.

He firmly denounces Jesus as YHWH.

Ask him yourself.

Furthermore when I asked him what Jesus was, if he was not God, he said he was a man only.

This is what Messianic Judaism teaches.


JLB

Not all MJ's teach that.
We'll let jocor clear it up again.

 

[smaller]

Love REIGNS over sin.

LOVE does not LIE and say "we have no sin."

 

[JLB]

So Noah fulfilled the law through his faith that loves. That's what I've been saying.

Sorry, brother.

The law of Moses was not yet added, when Noah was on the earth.


JLB

 

[JLB]

Not all MJ's teach that.
We'll let jocor clear it up again.

Just ask him if Jesus is YHWH?

It's very simple.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Why would anyone think that God would beget something other than God?


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You may "think" you are doing that in the "external senses."

Is that not required?
When you make the inside of the cup clean, doesn't the outside also become clean?

But the law does teach that even the mere THOUGHT of sin, is in fact SIN.

Temptation is not a sin. If it is, Jesus is not the perfect Lamb of God. And if he is not the perfect Lamb of God we are all still in our sins.

"15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot * sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15 NASB)

NO one escapes the conclusions of the LAW, that we are in fact sinners, all. Regardless of what transpires on the outside of the cup.

Those who think they are "externally" lawful have not yet dealt with the factual "evil" in their own thoughts, and to see THIS is in fact also SIN.

The Law in this way "exposes" us all for what we really are. OR turns us into ripe hypocrites, pretending we are legal on the outside and denying that we do have "evil thoughts" which DEFILE us. That is the first step into hypocrisy. We have been openly WARNED by Jesus NOT to fall into that trap.

Galatians 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

Those denying that conclusion are in fact, in denial of scriptures conclusion in this matter.

You're doing it again. You're discouraging believers from knowing and believing that they can be holy.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The law of Moses was not yet added, when Noah was on the earth.

Oh, I see. Faith fulfills the law before it was written down, but doesn't after it was written down. How does that work?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Just ask him if Jesus is YHWH?

It's very simple.

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory. 1 Timothy 3:16

Why would anyone think that God would beget something other than God?


JLB

And this automatically makes him wrong about the law how?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Love REIGNS over sin.

LOVE does not LIE and say "we have no sin."

I wonder who thinks they have no sin.
I've never met anyone who believed that.
I bet that's an even smaller fraction of the church than those who believe they must keep the law to be declared righteous.

What I'd rather see you do is start teaching against dead faith--you know the faith that does nothing--the faith of demons--but still thinks it's a faith that can save them on the Day of Wrath.

 

[smaller]

Is that not required?
When you make the inside of the cup clean, doesn't the outside also become clean?

Uh, no. We "all," down to the last one of us, come before God in Christ with a factual "evil conscience."

Paul tells us, directly, that the law against lust prompts "indwelling sin" to openly RESIST the LAW, internally, in Romans 7:7-13. This is a factual internal working that transpires in everyone, and is the 'source' of our factual "evil conscience."

YES, a person can love their neighbor, but they will do so as factual sinners.

NOW, you have people, perhaps such as yourself, supposedly LOVING other believers, but simultaneously condemning them to potential hell, for not "doing like they [the factual sinner] does in the external senses." In that kind of action not loving whatsoever, but two timing the subject matter and condemning and accusing believers while "excusing" themselves.

And the sad part is, the "victims" are blind to what is happening to them, internally. They are merely being turned into ripe dead hypocrites, acting legally, denying they are sinners, condemning, accusing. ALL the actions of the "accuser" of the brethren. And THIS by the Actions of God in Christ working AGAINST the power of sin within them, turning them into DENIAL and HYPOCRISY.

Temptation is not a sin. If it is, Jesus is not the perfect Lamb of God (). And if he is not the perfect Lamb of God we are all still in our sins.

Every action of the tempter IS a sin and that "action" transpires internally IN ALL.

You're doing it again. You're discouraging believers from knowing and believing that they can be holy.

Read it and weep:

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

If you think DEAD FLESH is holy, you see nothing. The vile body IS DEAD because of the presence of indwelling sin, and that includes the MIND and HEART, because of the presence of EVIL internally.

Any honest believer will come to an honest conclusion, that they DO HAVE evil thoughts.

In this, they see their VILE BODY. They don't "give excuses" for it, or even less, claim IT holy. That is utter religious nonsense, and a deception of evil working in such dead bodies.

We DO have a vile body and that body is vile because of the presence of indwelling sin. Romans 7:17-21.

Dress it up all you please. It is in fact slated for destruction.

 

[Sparkey]

HEY! What kind of dog and pony show is this? Who said it was open season on our brother who loves Jesus? I'm filing a report but not with the MODS. I'm filing it with our Big Brother, in the heavenlies. The One who said, "love others, as you self love!" And you know He did not command you to self love because that command is NOT needed. You guys (we all do; me tOo) do that all too well.

But balance that scale. Love @ others. Don't use them as an example of debate! (unless you have their explicit permission - they are not your FOIL) How would you like it, you lover of self! Huh?

Our brother keeps the law according to his good conscious. That's all that is required. Nothing more. And I'll keep my mouth shut about a couple-three goons who want to talk about him in a way to drive him from the fold. We're sheep, not chickuns. There is no needy-needy to force us to try to establish a pecking order. We are sheep. Put your beaks away!

Most High, I ask oil for the pecking wounds that brother has inflicted on brother (me too, they are inadvertent. They are not inflicted while awake and aware. We are just dumb sheep, acting as fowl). And I ask coals of hot fire to burn the truth of your love into those who need it. Straight on their foreheads. Forgive them. They know not what they do.

Say amen. Make peace. The hot-fire-coals on your forehead come from the fact that our brother is praying for us even as we peck his forehead. I'd bet anything. He's a good brother in Christ and we DO NOT have liberty to stumble him. Not one bit!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Uh, no. We "all," down to the last one of us, come before God in Christ with a factual "evil conscience."

No? Then Christ was lying when he said, "first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also." (Matthew 23:26 NASB)?

Paul tells us, directly, that the law against lust prompts "indwelling sin" to openly RESIST the LAW, internally, in Romans 7:7-13.

Yes, but only for the unbeliever, the one still in the flesh, and the believer who doesn't know better. Read it.

NOW, you have people, perhaps such as yourself, supposedly LOVING other believers, but simultaneously condemning them to potential hell, for not "doing like they [the factual sinner] does in the external senses."

Isn't judging a sin too? You're literally judging me for (supposedly) judging others.
I know that's okay in your doctrine, and I guess that's really what's wrong with your doctrine. It excuses sin.

And the sad part is, the "victims" are blind to what is happening to them, internally. They are merely being turned into ripe dead hypocrites, acting legally, denying they are sinners, condemning, accusing. ALL the actions of the "accuser" of the brethren. And THIS by the Actions of God in Christ working AGAINST the power of sin within them, turning them into DENIAL and HYPOCRISY.

So I should just let it all hang out and mutter the mantra of the unbeliever, "well, were all sinners anyway". Sorry, but my Bible tells me to strive for perfection, not sit in glib satisfaction and resignation to my sin.

Every action of the tempter IS a sin and that "action" transpires internally IN ALL.

Okay, okay! You believe Jesus was a sinner. I got it.

Any honest believer will come to an honest conclusion, that they DO HAVE evil thoughts.

In this, they see their VILE BODY. They don't "give excuses" for it, or even less, claim IT holy. That is utter religious nonsense, and a deception of evil working in such dead bodies.

I see, so I should excuse sin in me instead. The attempt to mortify it in my members is futile.

We DO have a vile body and that body is vile because of the presence of indwelling sin. Romans 7:17-21.

Dress it up all you please. It is in fact slated for destruction.

No, I hear ya. I'm not going to make any attempt to mortify sinful deeds in my flesh by the Holy Spirit. It's a lost cause.

 

[JLB]

Oh, I see. Faith fulfills the law before it was written down, but doesn't after it was written down. How does that work?

The law was added to the Abrahamic Covenant, four hundred and thirty years later. Galatians 3:19

Noah lived before Abraham.

The point I have made is clear.

Noah walked in faith working through love before Moses and before Christ.

You are trying to come up with a scripture that says "faith in Christ", fulfills the law of Moses.

So far you have not.

This scripture says 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

Faith working through love was what Noah walked in, long before Christ was born, and long before the law was added.

Not faith in Christ, but faith... faith working through love.

So far, you have not been able to show a scripture that says faith in Christ, fulfills the law of Moses, though you have been trying to teach that very thing for quite some time.

You have tried to convince everyone that they are blind and can not see that we fulfill some "spiritual" law of Moses through faith in Christ.


JLB

 

[JLB]

HEY! What kind of dog and pony show is this? Who said it was open season on our brother who loves Jesus? I'm filing a report but not with the MODS. I'm filing it with our Big Brother, in the heavenlies. The One who said, "love others, as you self love!" And you know He did not command you to self love because that command is NOT needed. You guys (we all do; me tOo) do that all too well.

But balance that scale. Love @ others. Don't use them as an example of debate! (unless you have their explicit permission - they are not your FOIL) How would you like it, you lover of self! Huh?

Our brother keeps the law according to his good conscious. That's all that is required. Nothing more. And I'll keep my mouth shut about a couple-three goons who want to talk about him in a way to drive him from the fold. We're sheep, not chickuns. There is no needy-needy to force us to try to establish a pecking order. We are sheep. Put your beaks away!

Most High, I ask oil for the pecking wounds that brother has inflicted on brother (me too, they are inadvertent. They are not inflicted while awake and aware. We are just dumb sheep, acting as fowl). And I ask coals of hot fire to burn the truth of your love into those who need it. Straight on their foreheads. Forgive them. They know not what they do.

Say amen. Make peace. The hot-fire-coals on your forehead come from the fact that our brother is praying for us even as we peck his forehead. I'd bet anything. He's a good brother in Christ and we DO NOT have liberty to stumble him. Not one bit!

Here is an example of Paul doing exactly that -

Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,

17 And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
18 who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
2 Timothy 2:17-18


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

What makes you thimk I was talking to you? Hmmmm??? I was, but I'd love to hear you continue to try to justify... (not really).

By the way, YOU are NOT Paul and you do not have the unction of the Holy Spirit as he did. Also, Paul was not under the authority of the Terms of Service here. So tell it to the judge, not to me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

HEY! What kind of dog and pony show is this?

You get what you pay for.

But balance that scale. Love @ others. Don't use them as an example of debate! (unless you have their explicit permission - they are not your FOIL) How would you like it, you lover of self! Huh?

Did you know it is loving to tell the truth?

"Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in his guilt. " (Leviticus 19: NASB)

I'd bet anything. He's a good brother in Christ and we DO NOT have liberty to stumble him. Not one bit!

Now you're cookin'!
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