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Salvation by faith alone/only?

savedbygrace57 said:
Salvation by Grace through Faith is denied by any person who says they are saved because they believed. This is just like saying that one is saved by keeping the Law or the Commandments of God. You see it does not matter if it's keeping one commandment to get saved or all the commandments, or if its the commandment to get water baptized, or if its a command to attend church, or if its a command to believe on Christ, yes because believing on Christ is a commandment 1 Jn 3:23 or repentance, because repentance is a commandment. Acts 17:30

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

1 Jn 3:23 reads


23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So if you or i or anyone teaches or believes that one gets saved for being obedient to a command of God, you deny Salvation by Grace through Faith, and you believe and are promoting Salvation by works.
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Not so!! Faith is an "integral" part of the Salvation process. Without it, It's not gonna happen...
 
Frodo said:
Being a former minister in the Church of Christ, I taught vehemently that salvation was dependent upon obedience just as much as faith, and faith was not enough, by itself, to bring about salvation. The bible seems to teach both views, that salvation is by faith alone and that it is not. This was one of the big factors in my deconversion, and I wonder what others have to say about the subject...
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Hi Frodo, Hope your still lurking around. Anyway, I'm still a member of the church of Christ, and honestly, it kind of saddens me that you, as a minister couldn't work this out and as a result, deconverted.


Frodo said:
The texts of scripture that really seem contradictory to me are Romans 4 and James 2. James says faith without works is dead, while Paul says faith without works saves...I actually had a public debate affirming that salvation is dependant upon works (not the law, but works of obedience). Looking back, I feel that I bested my opponent, but only by being more articulate and witty. After the debate, I realized that I could honestly see why my opponent believed in salvation by faith alone, because in certain passages, that seems to be the doctrine taught.
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Being witty nor articulate ever saved anyone. It's about reationship, not doctrines. A doctrine is an expression of that relationship, it's not the relationship.


Frodo said:
It wasnt this issue that made my 'faith' go 'shipwreck'...it was the contradictory nature of the scriptures, along with science, textual criticism, logic...etc. But lets not focus on me, lets deal with the issue at hand.
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You know what's sad? Your faith was in the wrong place. You see, when your doctrine went shipwreck, your faith in Christ should have strengthened. It sounded like you were putting your faith in your works and not the work of the cross.


Frodo said:
If salvation is by faith and not works (Eph 2:8-9), then there indeed is a contradiction with James 2.

Which is it: Faith with works, or faith whithout works? It can't be both...
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You should have kept reading...
Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

It's not an either or statement.

Grace and peace.
 
glorydaz said:
No, faith is not a work of man....in the Greek, faith and belief come from the same root word.
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If you disagree with what is posted in post 100, then you believe in Salvation by works, by keeping a commandment ! Now is to believe on Christ according to 1 Jn 3:23 a commandment of God or not ?
 
Grubal Muruch said:
Without faith it is impossible to please God.
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I agree with that. However if you disagree with the conclusion of post 100, you believe Salvation comes through man keeping a commandment of God, which is works.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
I agree with that. However if you disagree with the conclusion of post 100, you believe Salvation comes through man keeping a commandment of God, which is works.
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Grace+faith+nothing That's the way to roll my friend. No offence, but you seem a bit legalistic in your thought processes and demeanor. Again, no offence just an observation...
 
Grubal Muruch said:
Grace+faith+nothing That's the way to roll my friend. No offence, but you seem a bit legalistic in your thought processes and demeanor. Again, no offence just an observation...
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If you disagree with the conclusion of post 100, you believe Salvation comes through man keeping a commandment of God, which is works.
 
SavedByGrace--Belief is something man does and must do to be saved, yet it is a work of God, Jn.6:29. Anything God command us to do is not a work of man or a work of mans righteousness but a work of God. If not, why not? Give it your best!
 
Webb said:
SavedByGrace--Belief is something man does and must do to be saved, yet it is a work of God, Jn.6:29. Anything God command us to do is not a work of man or a work of mans righteousness but a work of God. If not, why not? Give it your best!
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If you disagree with what is posted in post 100, you also believe in Salvation by works, by keeping a commandant !
 
SavedByGrace--I without fail believe what God's Word says, not what someone's post (post 100 for example) says.

"Except ye believe that I am he ye shall die in your sins", Jn.8:24. "This is the work of God, that ye believe" Jn.6:29. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mk.16:16.

It is proper, right and expected that we take all God says on any subject before drawing conclusions.

The subject of this thread: "Salvation by faith alone/only? must have "faith" defined. "Faith" is used in various ways in scripture. By one use of "faith" in the scripture salvation is by "faith" alone, but by another use in the scripture it is not by "faith alone/only.
 
Webb said:
SavedByGrace--Belief is something man does and must do to be saved, yet it is a work of God, Jn.6:29. Anything God command us to do is not a work of man or a work of mans righteousness but a work of God. If not, why not? Give it your best!
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Exactly. God, is the Authority. He mandates, He doesn't make suggestions. Man's belief is not a work as we see here.
Romans 4:4-5 said:
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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If believing was a work of man, grace would be nullified.
Romans 11:6 said:
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
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glorydaz said:
Exactly. God, is the Authority. He mandates, He doesn't make suggestions. Man's belief is not a work as we see here.

If believing was a work of man, grace would be nullified.
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,

We first "hear" the word. Next, The Spirit convicts using that same word. And finally we place our "faith" in Christ...Salvation is a "work" of God and more so. Man, either excepts or rejects the mercy and forgiveness that God offers...God, none the less, does ALL the "work." But He require's that we "believe."
 
Grubal Muruch said:
,

We first "hear" the word. Next, The Spirit convicts using that same word. And finally we place our "faith" in Christ...Salvation is a "work" of God and more so. Man, either excepts or rejects the mercy and forgiveness that God offers...God, none the less, does ALL the "work." But He require's that we "believe."
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Amen, the glorious gospel of Christ - "the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth."
 
webb

SavedByGrace--I without fail believe what God's Word says, not what someone's post (post 100 for example) says.
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If you disagree with what is said in post 100, you believe in Salvation by works, which is condemned in scripture, I don't care what you say..
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Salvation by Grace through Faith is denied by any person who says they are saved because they believed. This is just like saying that one is saved by keeping the Law or the Commandments of God. You see it does not matter if it's keeping one commandment to get saved or all the commandments, or if its the commandment to get water baptized, or if its a command to attend church, or if its a command to believe on Christ, yes because believing on Christ is a commandment 1 Jn 3:23 or repentance, because repentance is a commandment. Acts 17:30

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

1 Jn 3:23 reads


23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So if you or i or anyone teaches or believes that one gets saved for being obedient to a command of God, you deny Salvation by Grace through Faith, and you believe and are promoting Salvation by works.
Click to expand...

No offence, but I suspect "convoluted" reasoning. No offence to you. You just haven't explored the subject well enough at this time...
 
Grubal Muruch said:
No offence, but I suspect "convoluted" reasoning. No offence to you. You just haven't explored the subject well enough at this time...
Click to expand...

If you disagree with what is said in post 100, you believe in Salvation by works, which is condemned in scripture, I don't care what you say..
 
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