Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
Strengthening families through biblical principles.
Focus on the Family addresses the use of biblical principles in parenting and marriage to strengthen the family.
Read daily articles from Focus on the Family in the Marriage and Parenting Resources forum.
SavedByGrace---In reply to your post #118 I note you failed to respond to any scripture. Will you study this matter further with me in the debate forum?
All right, let's talk about this text.Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
SavedByGrace, you have yet to answer statements and questions of post 122.
SavedByGrace, you have yet to answer statements and questions of post 122.
The bottom line: Romans 4:4-5 is a metaphor, so even though the metaphor deals with the matter of "working to get something", there are many other reasons, elaborated above, to conclude that Paul is not denying "salvation by good works" - something he clearly embraces in Romans 2 - he is instead denying that the Jew has a claim on God in respect to salvation and is using an analogy to a workman to make the point.
SavedByGrace, you have yet to answer statements and questions of post 122.
grub
It sure does, deal with it..
He won't because he can't. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
The fact that Paul asserts that all men have sinned does not, of course, mean that we cannot be transformed by God and then, through the Spirit, perform good works that ultimately save. Paul is very clear here in Romans 2 - final salvation is granted according to good works:Paul does not embrace salvation by good works, for all men sin and come short of the glory of God.
The fact that Paul asserts that all men have sinned does not, of course, mean that we cannot be transformed by God and then, through the Spirit, perform good works that ultimately save. Paul is very clear here in Romans 2 - final salvation is granted according to good works:
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Are you not going to engage the content of my argument about Romans 4:4-5. How is the argument flawed? Is it not clear that the "workman" snippet is a metaphor? Are all the elements to be taken literally? Not likely - it would cease to be a metaphor.
I am afraid that Paul is quite clear - final salvation is indeed based on good works. Here is the text again:Works "never" save anyone!!! We get saved and the indwelling Spirit influences us to bring forth fruit/good works...
The fact that Paul asserts that all men have sinned does not, of course, mean that we cannot be transformed by God and then, through the Spirit, perform good works that ultimately save. Paul is very clear here in Romans 2 - final salvation is granted according to good works:
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Are you not going to engage the content of my argument about Romans 4:4-5. How is the argument flawed? Is it not clear that the "workman" snippet is a metaphor? Are all the elements to be taken literally? Not likely - it would cease to be a metaphor.
Ephesians 2:10 said:For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
I am afraid that Paul is quite clear - final salvation is indeed based on good works. Here is the text again:
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Question: In this text, what is the "thing that is given"?
My answer is "eternal life". What is your answer, please?
Question: In this text, what is the basis for getting the thing that is given?
My answer is "what they have done" or "persistence in doing good".
What your answer, please?
When we read what Paul actually writes - and not what our traditions tell us - we see that, indeed, final salvation is based on how we actually lived our lives.
This is not what Paul actually writes. I will ask you the same questions I asked another poster. Here is the text again:Ah, you say "transformed by God." That I can agree with.
It has been ordained that we will show forth good works after we have already been saved by our faith in Christ.
God sees into our hearts and is able to discern our motives. Repaying each person for what they have done implies, for believers, the rewards handed out at the Judgment seat of Christ. Unbelievers will be paid the wages of sin which is death, irregardless of their good deeds - because of their unbelief. They refused to LOOK at Christ so there is no remedy for the poison of sin.
The fact that Paul asserts that all men have sinned does not, of course, mean that we cannot be transformed by God and then, through the Spirit, perform good works that ultimately save. Paul is very clear here in Romans 2 - final salvation is granted according to good works:
6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
Are you not going to engage the content of my argument about Romans 4:4-5. How is the argument flawed? Is it not clear that the "workman" snippet is a metaphor? Are all the elements to be taken literally? Not likely - it would cease to be a metaphor.