Salvation: What is it from and when will it be obtained?

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Here are my scriptural references.

Phil 3:8 I consider everything a loss compared to the superiority of the knowledge of the Anointed Jesus, my Lord. And because of him I’ve accepted the loss everything and consider it all a lot of garbage, so I can gain the Anointed One 9 and become one with him. This isn’t because of my own righteousness due to following the Law; it comes from faith in the Anointed One. It’s the type of righteousness that God gives for faith, 10 and this helps us to know [Jesus] and the power of his resurrection… and to share in his sufferings… and for me to resign myself to a death like his, 11 so I can somehow be found worthy of an out-resurrection from the dead.12 [I’m not saying] that I’ve made it yet or that I’m already perfect, just that I’m chasing after it… I’m trying to grab hold of that for which the Anointed Jesus grabbed hold of me! 13 Brothers, I don’t think of myself as having achieved it yet, but I am doing this one thing: [I’m] forgetting the things in the past and stretching out to reach for the things that are ahead… 14 I’m running toward the goal, the prize of the higher calling from God, through the Anointed Jesus. 15 So, may all of us who are mature think like this… and if your thinking is inclined any other way, God will reveal this to you.

1 Peter 1:5 The power of God is watching over you because of your faith in [this hope] of being saved, which is soon to be seen in the last days, 6 and in which you are rejoicing, although right now you’re undergoing many trials for a brief period. 7 This is happening so that the proof of your faith, which is much more valuable than gold that is refined and proven by fire, may be found to be a reason for praise, honor, and glory, during the revelation of Jesus the Anointed One.8 For, although you’ve never seen him, you’ve love him. And although you can’t see him, you believe in him and are rejoicing with an unspeakable and glorified joy, 9 as you carry off for yourselves the reward of this faith… the saving of your souls.
Hebrews 3:14, Mark 13:13, Romans 8, and the book of Revelation instructs its readers to remain faithful unto death and to endure till the end so that the salvation they seek can become a reality.

Paul says this in 2 Tim 4: For, I’m already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time for my release is almost here. 7 I’ve wrestled the fine match; I’ve finished the race; I’ve obeyed the faith; 8 and all that’s left for me now, is to lay down my golden crown, which the Lord (who isn’t over just me, but over everyone who loves the way in which he showed himself) will give back to me in that Day.


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here's a quick summation:

Salvation is a gift that is available only by the grace of God. One can only receive this precious gift through that individuals faith or trust. By the grace of God man can be saved from the curse of sin DEATH provided they trust in the Lord and obey Him.
Obedience is a part of faith, (and it's better than sacrifice BTW) and faith is not merely mental acceptance, but rather a LIFESTYLE of committment to God. All who continue in a lifestyle of being committed to God will be saved, those who do not will not ever be saved.

 

[Alabaster]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

I think we agree. We receive salvation the moment we receive Jesus Christ as Saviour by faith. It is a promise as well, for in our walk with Him, we move in His ways, stumbling at times, but always learning and transforming until we mature in His likeness, the process of which is called sanctification. Our sanctification is fully realized when we see Him face to face, and our salvation promise is realized.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 NKJV
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[elijah23]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

I disagree with some of your premise. I agree that salvation is being rescued from sin. I don’t think salvation is forever, though. It lasts until we commit another sin and need to be rescued from the consequences of THAT sin.

We have all sinned and need to be saved, but the trick is to repent of our sin—to work out our own salvation:

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; Phil 2:12 RSV

 

[Hitch]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

I think you need to compare John 5;24.

At death the believer will have a fuller realization of his salvation, and again at resurrection, be that as it may, it must conform to John 5;24.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I disagree with some of your premise. I agree that salvation is being rescued from sin. I don’t think salvation is forever, though. It lasts until we commit another sin and need to be rescued from the consequences of THAT sin.

We have all sinned and need to be saved, but the trick is to repent of our sin—to work out our own salvation:

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; Phil 2:12 RSV

It is my contention that salvation is NOT received on this side of life at all. For the saints who are faithful unto death, there is a crown of righteousness awaiting them. That crown is not given until after our life is past. Since salvation is not received in this life, but in the world to come, I believe it cannot be lost at that time, and therefore, once saved, always saved.
But just so I am 100% clear, I do not believe that ANYONE living is among the saved YET.

 

[Alabaster]

I disagree with some of your premise. I agree that salvation is being rescued from sin. I don’t think salvation is forever, though. It lasts until we commit another sin and need to be rescued from the consequences of THAT sin.

That belief is not biblical. How imperfect you must think that Jesus' shed blood was!

Hebrews 10:1-2 NLT
1 The old system under the law of Moses was only a shadow, a dim preview of the good things to come, not the good things themselves. The sacrifices under that system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would have stopped, for the worshipers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared.

then verses 9-10
9 Then he said, “Look, I have come to do your will.†He cancels the first covenant in order to put the second into effect. 10 For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.

then verse 22:
let us go right into the presence of God with sincere hearts fully trusting him. For our guilty consciences have been sprinkled with Christ’s blood to make us clean, and our bodies have been washed with pure water.

Note: have been sprinkled and have been washed, signifying a once for all time event.

We have all sinned and need to be saved, but the trick is to repent of our sin—to work out our own salvation:

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; Phil 2:12 RSV

There is no reference to anyone losing salvation when a believer sins!

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Here's the deal. At what point does a person become saved? Is it at the BEGINNING of one's faith or rather at the END of your faith?

I contend that the Bible teaches that the salvation in Jesus the Christ is a salvation from the wages of sin. We know what Romans says about the wages of sin being DEATH and most of us have heard the words of Jesus where He said these thing: "I have come that you might have life, and have it in adundance" and the famous quote from John 3: And as Moses raised the snake in the desert, that’s how the Son of Man must be raised, so that everyone who believes in him can get life in the age. ‘This is how [much] God loved the world: He gave His only-generated Son so that everyone who believes in him won’t be destroyed, but will get life in the age. 17 Why, God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge it, but for the world to be saved through him!

According to Jesus, salvation is being saved from destruction (death) and being given life in the age (eternal life).

 

[Alabaster]

I think you need to compare John 5;24.

At death the believer will have a fuller realization of his salvation, and again at resurrection, be that as it may, it must conform to John 5;24.

Wow.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

With salvation being a lifelong process, this is what i would share with an unbeliever about it.

For anyone who may be contemplating turning to the Lord. BY ALL MEANS DO SO!!!!!!!!!!! But, remember this, you must count the cost. Listen to Jesus' words in

Luke 14

25 Now, there was a large crowd traveling with him. So he turned and said to them, 26 ‘Unless those who come to me care less for their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters – yes even for their own lives – they cannot become my disciples, 27 nor can anyone follow me who won’t carry this own impaling pole.
28 ‘Which of you who wants to build a tower,
Wouldn’t first sit down to calculate the costs,
So you’ll have enough to finish [the job]?
29 For, you might just lay the foundation,
Then be unable to complete it,
And all who see it will make fun of you, 30 saying:
This man started the job,
But he couldn’t complete it!
31 ‘Or, what king, when he’s marching against another,
Doesn’t first sit down and ask his advisors,
If his ten thousand troops can possibly beat
The one who comes with twenty thousand?
32 ‘And if he’s unable to do that;
While [his enemy] is still far away,
He’ll send his ambassadors to sue for peace.
33 ‘So, you must be sure!
For none who refuse to give all they own,
Qualifies to be my disciple!

And after counting the cost, fix your eyes on the prise. Hear Jesus again, this time from Matthew the 19th chapter.

29 And everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or children, or lands for the sake of my name, will receive many times more, and they will inherit life in the age.

Once you make up your mind to follow the gospel path to salvation resolve to work and perservere through the race that is set before you.


Hebrews 12:1-4
1 So, since we have such a great cloud of witnesses lying around us, we should each get rid of the things that are weighing us down and any sins that are standing in our way. Then, let’s run the difficult course that’s ahead of us with endurance, 2 as we look forward in faith to our supreme leader, our goal, Jesus. Why, in return for the joy that he had before him, [Jesus] endured the shame of the impaling pole and thought nothing of it… then he sat down to the right of the Throne of God. 3 So, pay close attention to his example and how he was able to endure all of that at the hands of sinners (who just condemned themselves), so you don’t tire out and give up on your lives!
And remember that it is a matter of life and death and that the ultimate prize comes at the end of your faith. So no matter what comes your way, don't turn back!


20 Why, if someone has escaped from the filth of the world by coming to an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior, Jesus the Anointed, and they return to it and are conquered by it again, they’re worse off than when they started. 21 Why, it would have been better for them if they had never learned about the way of righteousness, than to turn away after they’ve been told the Holy Commandments! 22 What happens to them is as the proverb so truthfully says, ‘The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed, to rolling in its manure.’

Chapter 3
1 My loved ones; This is now the second letter that I’ve written you. In the first letter, I tried to shake you into thinking clearly and to remind you to 2 never forget what the holy Prophets used to say, or of the commandments that our Lord and Savior gave through your Apostles. 3 First, recognize this; In the last days, there will be those who ridicule. They will go their own way and do whatever they want, 4 and then mock you by asking, ‘Where is this coming of his? Why, this has been promised since our ancestors fell asleep, yet, all has stayed the same since the beginning of creation!’ 5 The thing that they don’t want to understand is: The ancient earth and skies were out of the water and (in obedience to God’s instructions) stood together between the waters. 6 And it was through these things that the world which was then, was deluged and destroyed by water. 7 And by the same [instructions]; What’s [now] in store for the earth and skies is fire, which [will come] during the Judgment Day, when godless men will be destroyed. 8 However, don’t overlook the fact, loved ones, that one day to Jehovah is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as just one day. 9 So, Jehovah isn’t slow when it comes to His promises (as some people think). Rather, He’s being patient with you, because He doesn’t want anyone to be destroyed; and He’s allowing enough time for everyone to repent! 10 However, the Day of the Lord will come… just like a thief! Then the skies will become extremely hot, their basic parts will melt, and they will pass away with a hissing noise… and then the earth and everything that’s being done on it will be exposed! 11 So, since all these things are going to be dissolved, what sort of people should you be when it comes to conducting [yourselves] in a holy way and in actively worshiping God? 12 Why, we’re awaiting and anticipating the arrival of the Day of the Lord, during which the skies will burn and dissolve, and their basic parts will melt due to the intense heat; 13 and we’re awaiting the new earth and skies that He has promised, in which the righteous will dwell! 14 So, loved ones; Since you’re awaiting these things, be swift about making yourselves spotless and flawless, so you can be at peace with Him! 15 Why, think about the patience that our Lord shows when it comes to our salvation, as our loved brother Paul [also] wrote you. For, he was given wisdom concerning [things] 16 that he writes about in all of his letters… some of which is hard to understand and is being twisted by the ignorant and shaky, as they do to the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction! 17 So, to you, my loved ones; Since you’ve been warned, be careful that you aren’t led astray by the bad things that these lawless people are doing and then lose your grip on your firm convictions. 18 Rather, keep growing in the loving care and knowledge of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Anointed One. May he be glorified now and into the Day of the age.

 

[elijah23]

It is my contention that salvation is NOT received on this side of life at all. For the saints who are faithful unto death, there is a crown of righteousness awaiting them. That crown is not given until after our life is past. Since salvation is not received in this life, but in the world to come, I believe it cannot be lost at that time, and therefore, once saved, always saved.
But just so I am 100% clear, I do not believe that ANYONE living is among the saved YET.

I think nothing will change after we pass on to the resurrection. If you live a righteous life, you will be fine. If you sin, you will be disciplined.

 

[elijah23]

That belief is not biblical. How imperfect you must think that Jesus' shed blood was!

Not biblical?

Jesus died for our sins, but we need to be disciplined when we sin to encourage us not to sin again.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I think nothing will change after we pass on to the resurrection. If you live a righteous life, you will be fine. If you sin, you will be disciplined.

According to scripture the wicked will be destroyed and be no more and the righteous will be given ages of life. In addition, there seems to be some distinction amongst the righteous. You have Jesus bride, you have the guests at the wedding feast, and the martyrs who are to reign with Jesus 1000 years.

 

[elijah23]

According to scripture the wicked will be destroyed and be no more and the righteous will be given ages of life. In addition, there seems to be some distinction amongst the righteous. You have Jesus bride, you have the guests at the wedding feast, and the martyrs who are to reign with Jesus 1000 years.

Jesus told us to do things: Love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Do those two things and you will be fine. Yes?

 

[Drew]

My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

There is at least a sense in which what you say here is true:

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.â€[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

This is from a treatment of a coming judgement at which all will appear, with final salvation determined at that time. Now to be fair - Paul also teaches (although not in Romans 2) that when a person enters into faith, the outcome of this future judgement is essentially assured to be a positive one (unless, perhaps, someone turns their back on God later in life).

This text, too, shows that "salvation" is finalized "at the end":

For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. 2 Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, 3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. 4 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. 9 So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

People will try to say that verse 10 is only about "rewards". But context will not allow this - in the first few verses, it is clear that Paul has final salvation in mind.

And, interestingly, he tells us that if we have the Spirit, our future salvation is basically guaranteed (as I asserted earlier in this post).

 

[Drew]

It is my contention that salvation is NOT received on this side of life at all. For the saints who are faithful unto death, there is a crown of righteousness awaiting them. That crown is not given until after our life is past. Since salvation is not received in this life, but in the world to come, I believe it cannot be lost at that time, and therefore, once saved, always saved.
But just so I am 100% clear, I do not believe that ANYONE living is among the saved YET.

Although I would want to add some qualifications to this, I believe you are essentially correct. Just watch as the others dance to get around Romans 2:6-7.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Jesus told us to do things: Love the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Do those two things and you will be fine. Yes?

This was Jesus' answer when asked what must be done to inherit age lasting life, but His He gave a much diiferent answer to the question of how one gets a place in the Kingdom or reign of Heaven. The Kingdom requires a spiritual rebirth.

 

[francisdesales]

I think you need to compare John 5;24.

At death the believer will have a fuller realization of his salvation, and again at resurrection, be that as it may, it must conform to John 5;24.

I think one has to be careful about what "believes on Him that sent Me" mean. The Bible has it as trusting obedience, not just mental assent of the will. John writes that we know we have Christ (eternal life) when we obey the commandments. James says that faith (mental assent) alone does not save. Thus, salvation is more than just "belief", it also includes trusting obedience in God.

Regards

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

WHAT MUST ONE DO TO GET SAVED?

Acts 16:
27 Well, when the jailer woke up and saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to do away with himself, because he thought the prisoners had all escaped. 28 But Paul called out loudly, ‘Don’t harm yourself… we’re all here!’ 29 So he asked for lights to be brought in, and shaking in fear, he jumped in and fell down before Paul and Silas. 30 Then he brought them outside and asked, ‘Lords; What must I do to get saved?’ 31 And they replied: ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you and your household will be saved.’ 32 Then they spoke to him and all those in his house about the Word of God. 33 So at that hour of the night, he went and washed their whip wounds; then he and his entire family were baptized right away. 34 And thereafter, he took them into his house, sat them at the table, and he and his entire household started rejoicing over their belief in God.

After reading this texts, some questions immediately come to my mind.
1. What prompted the jailer to ask the Paul and Silas about being saved?
2. What danger did the jailer think he was in that would lead him to believe he needed to be saved from something?
3. What did the jailer want to be saved from?
4. Why did Paul tell him to believe in Jesus before he told him about Jesus?
5. What did the jailer's belief have to do with his household being saved?

This jailer was not a Jew, he had not yet heard about Jesus, so why would he asked what he must do to be saved? My guess is that he was asking if there was a way that Paul and Silas could ensure that he would not be killed for not ensuring that the prisoners were secured. If this is the case, as his initial thought of suicide seems to indicate, he was asking them for salvation from the wrath of Rome, not for the salvation provided in Christ. I do not think Paul answered the jailer's question. It seems like Paul played the 'Jesus card' and offered the jailer 'living water' rather than the 'well' water he was asking for. Then after getting the jailer's family together Paul shared the Word of God with them which I presume went a little like this:
Listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene was a man who was shown by God with power, omens, and signs that God performed through him as you may have heard. 23 Yes, this person (who received his advice and his ability to see the future from God) was given over to the hands of men who were without Law, and was nailed up. 24 But God resurrected him, freeing him from the cords of death, because it wasn’t possible for [death] to hold him. ‘Then this Jesus was resurrected by God, and I am a witnesses to that… he was lifted to God’s right hand, where he received the Holy Breath and know for sure that God made this Jesus who was impaled the Lord and Anointed One! This Jesus who was taken from the ground into heaven, will return in the same way that those who saw him going into the sky saw.’ then Paul most likely said, "The jailer asked us what he must do to be saved from the wrath of Rome, but I'm here to tell all of you that you can be saved from the power of death by believing in the good message of Jesus the Christ that we have just shared with you."
I can then imagine them saying, "We believe the message Paul!" and then Paul gives them this reply: "Well repent, and each of you get baptized in the name of Jesus the Anointed One, so your sins can be forgiven."

 

[Alabaster]

Not biblical?

Jesus died for our sins, but we need to be disciplined when we sin to encourage us not to sin again.

And who is it that does that kind of encouraging?