Salvation: What is it from and when will it be obtained?

[warhorse]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

Well i would have to disagree with some of that position. Salvation begins with Jesus at the cross. In due time if we confess our sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness and turn away from them, then jesus is faithful and just to forgive them. Salvation starts there and a life with christ begins there spiritually and never ends. The mortal body also is redeemed at the second coming of christ and reborn to live forever at that day. It is a gift however that we do not have the power to give back. But to deny salvation at the start would deny a person the joy of the life lived with christ now.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Well i would have to disagree with some of that position. Salvation begins with Jesus at the cross. In due time if we confess our sins and ask Jesus for forgiveness and turn away from them, then jesus is faithful and just to forgive them. Salvation starts there and a life with christ begins there spiritually and never ends. The mortal body also is redeemed at the second coming of christ and reborn to live forever at that day. It is a gift however that we do not have the power to give back. But to deny salvation at the start would deny a person the joy of the life lived with christ now.

My question would then be this: How is it that salvation can "begin"? It either is or is not as opposed to being a process in my view and that view of salvation can be applied across the board no matter what is is someone is either saved or not saved from.
The biggest issue with religion's understanding of salvation is that they seem to neglect or totally overlook the fact that Jesus' saves from something very specific, which according to scripture in the wage of sin, death. We are not saved until the mortal has been clothed with immortality, though we can have current assurance of the future salvation that has been promised to Jesus' faithful ones.

 

[warhorse]

My question would then be this: How is it that salvation can "begin"? It either is or is not as opposed to being a process in my view and that view of salvation can be applied across the board no matter what is is someone is either saved or not saved from.
The biggest issue with religion's understanding of salvation is that they seem to neglect or totally overlook the fact that Jesus' saves from something very specific, which according to scripture in the wage of sin, death. We are not saved until the mortal has been clothed with immortality, though we can have current assurance of the future salvation that has been promised to Jesus' faithful ones.

Eph 1v13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

While yes!! the body remains to be redeemed until the 2nd coming. We are sealed to that promise When ye believed.

 

[Alabaster]

Eph 1v13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

While yes!! the body remains to be redeemed until the 2nd coming. We are sealed to that promise When ye believed.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

ssage you q

Eph 1v13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

While yes!! the body remains to be redeemed until the 2nd coming. We are sealed to that promise When ye believed.

Warhorse, in a way I believe we may be saying something simular. The passage you quoted is one I often go to to illustrate the very point I am trying to make that there was an assurance of salvation given when the saints were sealed with holy breath at the beginning of their faith, but that salvation was not REALIZED at that time. Realization and assurance about something yet to happen are not one and the same.

 

[warhorse]

ssage you q


Warhorse, in a way I believe we may be saying something simular. The passage you quoted is one I often go to to illustrate the very point I am trying to make that there was an assurance of salvation given when the saints were sealed with holy breath at the beginning of their faith, but that salvation was not REALIZED at that time. Realization and assurance about something yet to happen are not one and the same.

Well if we were dealing with a promise from man i would agree with you, but we are dealing with a promise from God who can not lie. additionally the holy spirit does not come empty handed, you see he comes with all the gifts fully complete from the git-go. He can make communication for you to the father, thus your prayers are heard. And he can lead you to knowledge, wisdom, and spiritual understanding as you study the word of God. You see your relationship with God starts immediatly, and you need only here the testimony of one who has been saved while in the depths of addiction to drugs or booz, to see the very reality of christs salvation, manifested right here on earth every day amongst the living.

 

[Sam21]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

Salvation is a gift from God, it is given to those who totally commit to God and ask Jesus to be their Saviour. You are headed for hell and then you commit to God and ask Jesus to be your Saviour and now you are headed for Heaven...it is 100%a gift from God. Now the walk with God must be maintained by continued faith and obedience, however salvation is God's gracious kindness poured out upon us because we accept His Son as our Saviour.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

As students of scripture and professing believers in the gospel message, it is imperative that we so a better and an accurate job of communicating the message of scripture with regards to salvation. When we speak of the salvation found in Christ, we must be able to accurately specifiy what it is Jesus saves from. This WHAT is extremely important and needs to be properly understood.

 

[taromina2003]

As students of scripture and professing believers in the gospel message, it is imperative that we so a better and an accurate job of communicating the message of scripture with regards to salvation. When we speak of the salvation found in Christ, we must be able to accurately specifiy what it is Jesus saves from. This WHAT is extremely important and needs to be properly understood.

Actually IMO that is what the Holy Spirit is for. See we as those brothers and sisters in the Holy Bible need to articulate our witness, our testament, in other words our own experience not just simply use the holy word but also share our own experience.

 

[tim-from-pa]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

I have the same general belief you have, as long as the Christian race isn't construed to meaning works, but rather manifestation of faith (as faith without works is dead).

As for when salvation occurs, I'l just say this much. That's the whole point of the Lord's feast days which when understood show the redemption of mankind. And that is why I bring up the subject of the Hebrew calendar and feasts ad nauseam.

I'll state this implication for to say it directly is going to ruffle too many feathers with knee-jerk reactions. However, the point of the church is to rule and reign with Christ (not too many knowledgeable folks argue that). Being Kings and priests means teaching people in God's coming Kingdom. Now, by simple deduction, you don't expect God to have "all chiefs and no Injuns?" But, He will give all people a chance when he decides to call them. This helps to explain the apparent contradiction of predestination and free choice that everyone debates about all the time.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I'll state this implication for to say it directly is going to ruffle too many feathers with knee-jerk reactions. However, the point of the church is to rule and reign with Christ (not too many knowledgeable folks argue that). Being Kings and priests means teaching people in God's coming Kingdom. Now, by simple deduction, you don't expect God to have "all chiefs and no Injuns?" But, He will give all people a chance when he decides to call them. This helps to explain the apparent contradiction of predestination and free choice that everyone debates about all the time.

Sometimes the truth is not popular, but I must agree that scripture shows that SOME will rule with Jesus as Kings, others will be over cities I believe a well. That leaves SOME as the subjects of those who rule in the kingdom. I am not sure how long that situation will last because at some point we are told that Jesus will turn the Kingdom over to the FATHER and subject even himself to the FATHER that God might be all and in all.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Sometimes the truth is not popular, but I must agree that scripture shows that SOME will rule with Jesus as Kings, others will be over cities I believe a well. That leaves SOME as the subjects of those who rule in the kingdom. I am not sure how long that situation will last because at some point we are told that Jesus will turn the Kingdom over to the FATHER and subject even himself to the FATHER that God might be all and in all.

Yes I agree. I believe that's one of the purposes of the "Judgment seat of Christ" for believers. Not for their salvation, but rather their purpose and position in the Kingdom. I don't want to dummy down the numbers as some ministries have as there may be more ruling (both small and great) than we realize, but again I don't think it will be everyone obviously. Some people have to be the recipients of that.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe we are sealed by Gods Spirit the moment we repent and ask Jesus to be our Lord and Savior as we live out our existence here on earth as working out our salvation through faith and belief that we live our lives by applying the word of God in all situations in our lives and continuing in the works of the Lord and when we have run that race which has brought glory and honor to His name then we which have endured all things will be saved according to the scriptures.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Php 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither labored in vain.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[TimothyW]

First off, let me start by stating my premise that I think salvation means being rescued from the curse of sin, death. What I mean by death is simply death, not Hell, not purgatory, not 'soul sleep', but death. I actually do believe that once a person RECEIVES salvation, they have it, and will not lose it.
My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

What say the forum?

I'd say that you are exactly correct. Not that my say carries any weight.

 

[TimothyW]

You have Jesus bride, you have the guests at the wedding feast, and the martyrs who are to reign with Jesus 1000 years.

I believe that these all represent the same people, those who are in Christ. They are different views of the same people. We are all (those of us who belong to Him) His Bride, His guests, and His Martyrs. Any of us could be called upon to be martyred for Him at any time, and the word Martyr just means "Witness".

 

[Guest]

My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

Incorrect.

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

I believe that these all represent the same people, those who are in Christ. They are different views of the same people. We are all (those of us who belong to Him) His Bride, His guests, and His Martyrs. Any of us could be called upon to be martyred for Him at any time, and the word Martyr just means "Witness".

I once shared your view. I think the view you hold is basically the "default" view that's held throught Christianity. For me, my acceptance of that view began to change the more I examined the scriptures, and more specifically some of what Jesus is quoted as saying in reference to his kingdom.

 

[TimothyW]

I believe that these all represent the same people, those who are in Christ. They are different views of the same people. We are all (those of us who belong to Him) His Bride, His guests, and His Martyrs. Any of us could be called upon to be martyred for Him at any time, and the word Martyr just means "Witness".

I once shared your view. I think the view you hold is basically the "default" view that's held throught Christianity. For me, my acceptance of that view began to change the more I examined the scriptures, and more specifically some of what Jesus is quoted as saying in reference to his kingdom.

Okay. I'm not "married" to the idea. I'll look into it, and maybe things will change. I've changed a lot of my former views to more Biblical views.

 

[Drew]

My contention is that salvation isn't received when one decides to BECOME a christian, but rather at the end of one's "christian race."

I agree. Paul is quite clear that there is a judgement we will all face, and it is at that judgement that salvation is conferred. See Romans 2, a chapter that many evangelicals are very uncomfortable with, not least because it declares final salvation based on how one has lived one's life.

 

[Drew]

Incorrect.

If so, how you explain this:

But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

This text, in my opinion, clearly shows that the awarding of eternal life is (1) based on good works; (2) given out at a future date.

Note: I am - trust me on this - acutely aware of all those texts that say we are not saved by "works". Well, context shows that Paul is denying salvation by works of the Law of Moses, not good works. Different thing altogether.