SALVATION

[Panin]

What happens if we after a while start walking after the flesh again and not the Spirit.

You know what happens, you end up miserable and deeply unhappy until you get right with God again.

 

[Cornelius]

What happens to these Christians when they do not hold out to the end?

Do you mean if they die? Because they only have to hold out for about 7 years 3 and half of which will be realy, really bad, thats assuming the avoided being beheaded for refusing the mark, in which case they will meet the lord in glory. If they die of natural causes before the final retrun of Christ having refused the mark, your guess is as good as mine on that one. We do know from scripture that people do infact live through the tribulation period.

So if these Christians give up and then take the mark, what happens to them ?

 

[Cornelius]

What happens if we after a while start walking after the flesh again and not the Spirit.

You know what happens, you end up miserable and deeply unhappy until you get right with God again.

A friend of mine was Spirit filled, tongue speaking , reborn Christian. Her husband who was also a Christian, beat her so badly, she says he knocked Christianity right out of her. She is now a practicing witch , like her father and brother.She told me the other day: I know I am now going to hell, but I rather go there , than to heaven with a bunch of hypocrites.

She was saved. She had the fruit of a Christian, until that time. Will she automatically go to heaven now?

 

[Cornelius]

Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,


Hbr 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,


Hbr 6:6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[glorydaz]

You have not answered my question. Will a real Christian loose his salvation if he took the mark of the Beast ?

No true believer can ever lose his salvation.
We have the Holy Spirit living in our hearts.
The Word tells us we're not to worry about tomorrow, I don't.
Sufficient today is the evil thereof. If I were to worry about the mark of the beast, I'd be lacking faith in the power of God to keep me and guide me. I'd be going before the Lord, and leaning on my own understanding. I simply won't do that.

Keep your eyes upon Jesus...nothing else matters.

You know that I am not talking about you here. I am talking about Christians in general. What happens to a Christian that takes the mark of the beast ?

In the first place, I don't believe the Lord will put us to any worse test than has been put before the saints in the past. Are some killed for their faith? Yes. That's always been a possibility.
Does the Lord promise to give us no more than we can bear? Yes.
Will taking a mark result in someone losing their salvation...No.
The whole idea is contrary to God's character. Most of the scare tactics coming out of a misunderstanding of the book of Revelation are tools of the enemy to take our eyes off the Lord.
People are marked with a seal of God or a seal of satan.
No one can be forced into following satan, so no one can be forced into taking his mark. People choose who they serve. Those who serve satan will bear his mark. Those who serve God will bear His.
We resist the devil and he flees. We call on the Lord and He answers. He tells us what to say and what to do. My faith is simple. I just don't worry about what tomorrow will bring.

 

[Panin]

Speaking in toungues? Spirt filled, what spirit? These are gifts not for today, unless you are a witch.

Your friend "Lord Lord I dont believe in you because all christians are A-holes".

God: "Oh is that right? - Wrong answer! Follow the bloke with pointy tail and the pitch fork. He's dressed in all red, you cant miss him. Dont worry you other lot, all get on each."

These are questions asked by some one who is about 9 and in their third of forth sunday school class Cornelius.

You have no proof that this lady was ever saved, only proof that she never was.

PS a couple of (non christian)friends of mine are the nicest people I have ever met, they are better behaved and more giving and loving than any christian I have ever met, including me. Have they earned a ticket into heaven??

 

[glorydaz]

ng...that kind of fruit.
They are the mark of a spirit filled believer.
We obey His voice, not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What happens if we after a while start walking after the flesh again and not the Spirit?

I've done it...several times actually. I get too busy for the Lord and He smacks me upside the head and I remember why I keep my eye fixed upon Him. :yes

 

[Cornelius]

Will taking a mark result in someone losing their salvation...No.

So you are quite comfortable saying that this scripture is a lie:Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Cornelius]

ng...that kind of fruit.
They are the mark of a spirit filled believer.
We obey His voice, not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What happens if we after a while start walking after the flesh again and not the Spirit?

I've done it...several times actually. I get too busy for the Lord and He smacks me upside the head and I remember why I keep my eye fixed upon Him. :yes

And if you do not listen to his correction ? Actually, lets not make this about you. You know very well that not all Christians walk a cloned path to yours. Some STAY in the path following their flesh

Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
Rom 8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Obviously talking to Christian here who will die if they do not put to death the deeds of the flesh

 

[glorydaz]

What happens if we after a while start walking after the flesh again and not the Spirit.

You know what happens, you end up miserable and deeply unhappy until you get right with God again.

A friend of mine was Spirit filled, tongue speaking , reborn Christian. Her husband who was also a Christian, beat her so badly, she says he knocked Christianity right out of her. She is now a practicing witch , like her father and brother.She told me the other day: I know I am now going to hell, but I rather go there , than to heaven with a bunch of hypocrites.

She was saved. She had the fruit of a Christian, until that time. Will she automatically go to heaven now?

No one knows a persons heart but the Lord.
Need I say Jimmy Swaggard, the Bakers....on and on and on.
Speaking in tongues tells me there's a problem right there.
A Christian beating his wife...sorry, I call a tare a tare when I see it.
A new creature does not beat his wife....anyone can claim to be saved.

 

[Cornelius]

Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,


Hbr 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,


Hbr 6:6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Cornelius]

Speaking in tongues tells me there's a problem right there.

Paul had a huge problem.1Cr 14:18 I thank God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

 

[Panin]

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

Clearly those who take the Mark worship the beast. There is nothing here to say that any of them where Christians or backslidden Christians. Or "Christians" who decided to become witches.

 

[Panin]

Speaking in tongues tells me there's a problem right there.

Paul had a huge problem.1Cr 14:18 I thank God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

By the Book Charamatsic Chaos. And read it. Just a suggestion.

I knew you where a born again pentcostal. Bro this movement spelled the end of Christianity in the 20th century. That and "Christian" Rock Music

Asta la shun dai untie a bowtie mitsibishi hyundai - so sayeth the Lord.

 

[Cornelius]

1Cr 13:8 Love never faileth: but whether [there be] prophecies, they shall be done away; whether [there be] tongues, they shall cease; whether [there be] knowledge, it shall be done away.


1Cr 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;


1Cr 13:10 but when that which is perfect is come, that which is in part shall be done away.

It seems that knowledge has indeed passed away. This scripture says .....when that which is perfect is come........(Well we all know that has not happened yet !) what will pass away? Only that which is .....in part. It is simply saying we are doing this imperfectly now, prophecy, speaking in tongues, but when Christ comes in His Body of believers (Body of.....Christ) that which is perfect (Christ) would have come and all the gifts will be perfected with Him. But obviously now we only speak in part.


For we know in part, and we prophesy in part;

So we are still waiting for Christ to perfect us in all the gifts.

 

[glorydaz]

Will taking a mark result in someone losing their salvation...No.

So you are quite comfortable saying that this scripture is a lie:Rev 14:11 and the smoke of their torment goeth up for ever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, they that worship the beast and his image, and whoso receiveth the mark of his name.

Please...I did not say it was a lie. I said Revelation is greatly misunderstood. It's a symbolic book.

It's a revelation of Jesus Christ...and people have turned it into a Nostradamus futuristic bunch of rubbish. John told us there were many antichrists..before he even wrote Revelation. Much of what he wrote about has already happened. Believe me, I've gone round and round with the different teachings on the book of Revelation, and I see it's caused more error than I care to address right now.

 

[Cornelius]

Lets rather stick to the topic. You both still need to answer me on this :

Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,


Hbr 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,


Hbr 6:6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Panin]

Paul had a huge problem.1Cr 14:18 I thank God, I speak with tongues more than you all[/b]He was also an apostle and he also wrote the new testament (most of it) and when he said the words above he was rebuking the corinthian chruch for speaking in tongues in front of un belivers and making fools fo themselves. He was also stoned to death for Christ. His shadow healed people, and touching a hankerchied he had touched also healed people, but these gifts passed way when that which was perfect came. IE The completed word of Almighty God.

 

[Cornelius]

Please...I did not say it was a lie. I said Revelation is greatly misunderstood. It's a symbolic book.

It's a revelation of Jesus Christ...and people have turned it into a Nostradamus futuristic bunch of rubbish. John told us there were many antichrists..before he even wrote Revelation. Much of what he wrote about has already happened. Believe me, I've gone round and round with the different teachings on the book of Revelation, and I see it's caused more error than I care to address right now.

First answer my outstanding question, then you can explain to us, how Jesus did not mean we will be lost if we take the mark.

 

[Panin]

You cant add "saved an filled with Holy Spirit" yourself buster! What are you on.

By the way saved and filled with the holy spirt are one and the same thing. They are not two different things.

Touching tasting partaking, does not mean salvation. I have tasted, touched and partaken in Indian ceremonies at a wedding. Im not an Indian.