SALVATION

[Cornelius]

I have to work now, but I will drop in now and then to see how you are doing.

(PS, I think it was Peter's shadow not Paul and Christ is the perfection which is to come )


......oh and knowledge is also strangely still with us . How come that got to stay ? Don't answer. We do not want to leave the topic of salvation!

 

[Panin]

It has happened. That which is perfect; is the completed word of God. Christ was never once referred to in scripture as "that which is perfect", but the word was. (not that Christ isn't perfect obviously, Im not sayin gthat either. Christ has already come when that happened remeber. It didnt say when that which is perfect come backs either._

Thats why I dont belive any fruit n nut case who thinks he can speak in tongues or who is whacked out of his box so much that he thinks he can stand up in church when he feels "the spirit move", and channel the very creator of the universe down through his tiny mind out through the vocal cords through his lips to the congregation.

You'd have to be a complete ego maniac to be on that trip bro.

 

[Panin]

I have to work now, but I will drop in now and then to see how you are doing.

(PS, I think it was Peter's shadow not Paul and Christ is the perfection which is to come )


......oh and knowledge is also strangely still with us . How come that got to stay ? Don't answer. We do not want to leave the topic of salvation!

same diff as it pertains to the spirtual gifts. But I have to allow you to get something right. You cant always be wrong.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,


Hbr 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,


Hbr 6:6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I'll take my translation..there is a difference, as you can see.
For it is impossible......IF they shall fall away.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

There are a lot of verses that say, "If it were possible" or seeking whom he "may" devour....etc. that you have to be careful not to misconstrue. He is simply saying it would be crucifying Christ again if one were to fall away. I believe the point he's making is don't believe you can fall away once saved, because if you believe that you'd have to crucify Christ over and over again. This is just what one of the brothers was explaining to you earlier.

 

[Panin]

I have to work now, but I will drop in now and then to see how you are doing.

I have to leave here and never come back, it's ruining by buzz, man.

 

[glorydaz]

I've done it...several times actually. I get too busy for the Lord and He smacks me upside the head and I remember why I keep my eye fixed upon Him. :yes

And if you do not listen to his correction ? Actually, lets not make this about you. You know very well that not all Christians walk a cloned path to yours. Some STAY in the path following their flesh

Rom 8:6 For the mind of the flesh is death; but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
Rom 8:13 for if ye live after the flesh, ye must die; but if by the Spirit ye put to death the deeds of the body, ye shall live. Those who walk after the flesh are not saved. They will die. He is referring to the difference of walking in the flesh (not born again), and walking in newness of life...where our flesh has been crucified already with Christ. The law of sin and death again. None of this has to do with losing salvation.

Obviously talking to Christian here who will die if they do not put to death the deeds of the flesh

No, talking to those who walk in the flesh...not saved yet.
The saved are not in the flesh, but in the spirit. This is referring back to the law of sin and death. Our body has been crucified with Christ...nevertheless we live because Christ lives in us.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[glorydaz]

Please...I did not say it was a lie. I said Revelation is greatly misunderstood. It's a symbolic book.

It's a revelation of Jesus Christ...and people have turned it into a Nostradamus futuristic bunch of rubbish. John told us there were many antichrists..before he even wrote Revelation. Much of what he wrote about has already happened. Believe me, I've gone round and round with the different teachings on the book of Revelation, and I see it's caused more error than I care to address right now.

First answer my outstanding question, then you can explain to us, how Jesus did not mean we will be lost if we take the mark.

I did answer your question, and Jesus didn't say we would be lost if we take the mark.

 

[Cornelius]

Well, are they saved or not?

Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,


Hbr 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,


Hbr 6:6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[Cornelius]

I did answer your question, and Jesus didn't say we would be lost if we take the mark.

Of course He did: Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his imageRev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Panin]

I did answer your question, and Jesus didn't say we would be lost if we take the mark.

Of course He did: Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and [upon] them which worshipped his image.

Go back to work, it's a sin to be doing personal things when you are being paid. SHAME ON YOU

Well whadayagonndo??

You'll lose your salvation for that exepcially if you don't memorize Psalm 119

 

[Cornelius]

I work for myself from home I have retired long ago from working for others.



Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

You do know that the Book of Revelation was given to John by Jesus Himself ? So how on earth can you make a statement like that and tell me that you are within Scriptures, when you are so clearly outside of Scripture?
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,


Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book,

 

[Cornelius]

Lets rather stick to the topic. You both still need to answer me on this :

Do you think this is speaking about Christians who are going to heaven?

Hbr 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift,(Saved and filled with the Holy Spirit ) and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,


Hbr 6:5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,


Hbr 6:6 and [then] fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

OK as you can see, I keep on asking this question over and over. But I understand why you keep on avoiding answering it.

So here is the answer: These Christians have indeed lost their salvation.They cannot be renewed to repentance, they have been reprobated.

 

[vja4Him]

Twice dead while they are still alive and plucked up by their roots. They are Christians brother. They have roots ! Tares are Christians too. They are just not chosen in the end.

The tares are not Christians. They might appear to be Christians, but are rather counterfeits. It is the enemy, Satan, who has sown the tares.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Faith in Christ, and His Atoning Blood ...

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

This is only saying that without Jesus no one will be saved no matter how hard you try for yourself, that does not mean His followers are free to sin. Jesus says "if you love me, keep my commandments."

Christianity is all about accepting Jesus as Lord and savior. It seems that you just want to accept Him as Savior, but not as your Lord.

.

DEar Shad, the implication that the doctrine of eternal security means that sin is okay, is just that, an implication. We dont believe that either. SIN is never okay.

Exactly. I'm not saying that just because I believe my salvation is secure in Jesus Christ, and that I cannot lose my salvation, then it's ok to sin. But I do know that when I sin, I can stand on God's word:

1 John 1:8-9

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

 

[vja4Him]

The "no works" gospel is a gospel that looks to SELF all the time

You are mistaken .... I do not look to myself, and how can you even know whether someone is only looking to themself anyways? YOU can't!

Only God knows the hearts and intents of someone ....

I look to Christ and Christ alone, for the works of my salvation. Jesus Christ finished the work of my salvation on the cross. It's done, completed.

Ephesians 2:8-9

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

I am saved NOT by WORKS .... You can't have it both ways (saved by works and not saved that works). That would be a contradiction.

My salvation is secure in Jesus Christ, and His finished work on the cross.

 

[vja4Him]

The Works of God:

. Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

That Bible verse has NOTHING to do with salvation.

 

[shad]

I did answer your question, and Jesus didn't say we would be lost if we take the mark.

Jesus says "if you love me, keep my commandment." How can you say you love Him without keeping His commandments and say you are saved? You cannot.

Jesus is giving us many kinds of commandments. His commandments are details of the Ten commandments.

If you have faith in Jesus, you will keep all His commandments. Jesus also says "anything is possible with Gods' help."

You cannot separate good works and faith. It is just common sense, friend.

 

[vja4Him]

All this trouble over a definition of terms.

s

You do realize that God is hiding the truth in plain site regarding this matter ? He has a reason for it. This is why this definition has caused the splitting of the Body of Christ into schisms .

People are staring at the fact that our works cannot bring us salvation, (true) and then they sit down and say" OK, then there is nothing further to do" (wrong)

To walk this salvation , means we start out believing that we actually CAN walk like Jesus. We believe that indeed nothing is impossible (Because Jesus said so) We indeed already have the mind of Christ (OK, first by faith, and THEN by manifestation !) But most are happy to just stay in the hope that we might or might not "get there in this life" Wrong attitude ! Its meant for us NOW.

I am not going to argue OSAS with you. I am rather going to discuss the real Gospel. That = salvation

People make all kinds of excuses not to be obedient. The gate is a narrow one, it always has been.

Those who are truly born again, will be led by the Spirit. If they get lazy, the Lord is faithful to chastise them until they press on again. It's an irresistable calling for the true child of God.

He is faithful to keep us, and will lose none of His own. There are more than I care to think of that will hear the words, "I know you not." If the Lord says that, you can be sure He never knew them to begin with. God is far above disowning His own children.

Amen! And we can rest in peace, daily, knowing that we belong to God, and that He will not disown us! We are His children, the King's children. We will stumble and fall, but the Lord is there to pick us up, and even carry us through the trials of life ....

 

[vja4Him]

Paul, Worst of Sinners ...

We always hear the bumper-sticker gospel !

I am just a sinner saved by grace.

Well, Paul always wrote to the saints, not the sinners.

What did Paul say of himself ....

1 Timothy 1:15-16

15Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst. 16But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his unlimited patience as an example for those who would believe on him and receive eternal life.

Paul considered himself to be the worst of sinners.

 

[vja4Him]

Re: Works Based Salvation ...

A person "knows" they are saved TODAY by their faith in Christ and how they walk in the Spirit, not depending upon some declaration made in 2000. We "know" we are saved AS we walk in Christ. That is what the Bible means by knowing we are saved, in the Spirit. Our CURRENT actions and walk, my brother.

Regards

I put my assurance in my salvation, not in what I might do, but in what Christ has already done on the cross of calvary.

As a Christian, sure I will do good works, but I never think of my works as giving me any assurance that I will make it to heaven. That would only lead me into a false sense of security.

I KNOW that I am saved because I KNOW that Jesus will keep His promise.

Hebrews 7:25

Therefore he is able to save completely[a] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Jesus will save me completely! Not partially, not temporarily. My salvation in Christ is COMPLETE, in Jesus, not in my works.