Satan Is No Longer "The Prince [ruler] Of This World."

[jasonc]

Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Literal words of Jesus

I thought we are to take the words of the bible literally. that context means that satan was allowed to have rule over the goy and no he is being removed from such power.if one wants to see evil, one will. if one wants to see jesus, one will. sure the world is a dark place. god didn't say that it would ever be wholly his. that is why I don't buy the idea of a massive worldwide falling away. in order to fall away the entire church would have to be the majority of the population. which has never been the case.

 

[reba]

I see the Birth and the Cross ( and all that goes with it) as the center of time... not time as in years but time of eternity.. From the beginning . the Cross was God's plan...
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So often we tend to skip past the Cross and look to the unknown

 

[Kathi]

Satan is alive and well right now and ruling this earth.Satan will be bound at the beginning of the Millennium for 1000 years Revelation 20:1-3.Satan will then be released when the 1000 years is finished and he will go to deceive the nations.There will be a huge battle including Satan and many who were born during the Millennium who are not believers in God.Of course Satan and his army will not win because fire will come down and devour them.They will then be cast into the lake of fire at the White Throne judgment at the end of the Millennium Revelation 20:7-10.

You can read these words from Scripture literally how it is intended or you can give them your own meaning.That is your choice.

 

[jasonc]

Satan is alive and well right now and ruling this earth.Satan will be bound at the beginning of the Millennium for 1000 years Revelation 20:1-3.Satan will then be released when the 1000 years is finished and he will go to deceive the nations.There will be a huge battle including Satan and many who were born during the Millennium who are not believers in God.Of course Satan and his army will not win because fire will come down and devour them.They will then be cast into the lake of fire at the White Throne judgment at the end of the Millennium Revelation 20:7-10.

]
if satan is rulling this world. im working for satan?

 

[reba]

Satan is alive and well right now and ruling this earth.Satan will be bound at the beginning of the Millennium for 1000 years Revelation 20:1-3.Satan will then be released when the 1000 years is finished and he will go to deceive the nations.There will be a huge battle including Satan and many who were born during the Millennium who are not believers in God.Of course Satan and his army will not win because fire came down and devoured them.They will then be cast into the lake of fire at the White Throne judgment at the end of the Millennium Revelation 20:7-10.

Kathi So what is your interpretation of the Words of Jesus here
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 

[Genesis Owl]

You are mistaken. Holy Spirit from the mind of Paul says that they walked according to the course of this world. Here we don't read that Satan terminating his power as prince of the power of the air.

I won't argue this with you. Paul established churches and managed them. The epistles he wrote were letters to that effect. I am a Christian. Not a Pauline.

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Literal words of Jesus

Yes indeed. And that is what lends to the confusion in this discourse. John, chronologically speaking, was written before the scripture in Peter wherein we are told Satan roams the earth like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour.
I believe the casting out of the enemy shall take place, and that scripture in John makes that promise, when Christ returns.

Otherwise, how do we explain those scriptures after that that refer to Satan, evil, sin, etc... being at issue here? And Satan being behind it all due to his presence here?

 

[Kathi]

Kathi So what is your interpretation of the Words of Jesus here
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

When Adam and Eve willingly disobeyed God,they gave up some of their authority;because they listened to Satan.At the cross Jesus stripped Satan of his authority.That is the meaning of John 12:31.Satan has no more authority now over those who are in Christ.Satan still roams this Earthy like a roaring lion and continues to deceive many.

 

[Kathi]

]
if satan is rulling this world. im working for satan?

No if you are a born again believer in Jesus Christ you are working for God.Those who are not believers are working for Satan.

 

[jasonc]

When Adam and Eve willingly disobeyed God,they gave up some of their authority;because they listened to Satan.At the cross Jesus stripped Satan of his authority.That is the meaning of John 12:31.Satan has no more authority now over those who are in Christ.Satan still roams this Earthy like a roaring lion and continues to deceive many.

I have found that much of what god does is a process. are we saved? yup but are we 100% holy pure and sinless at this point? NO.

.

No if you are a born again believer in Jesus Christ you are working for God.Those who are not believers are working for Satan.

if my boss isn't saved them whom am I working for? I serve the president of the united states of America. lawfully and by oath. we both know that Obama isn't much of a friend to Christianity at times.im also bound to not to say much on what is going on for a local potilical issues where by some so called Christians lied and lie to the people. satan has whatever power we give him. that Is what I meant. if the church spoke up and dealt with sin and did give, the sinners would come instead we fight, and argue and cheat each other. whom really is a fault for this? US. satan is a liar he is doing his job to deceive. that is what he does but he cant rule the world without god allowing it. he never was without a restraint.

 

[reba]

When Adam and Eve willingly disobeyed God,they gave up some of their authority;because they listened to Satan.At the cross Jesus stripped Satan of his authority.That is the meaning of John 12:31.Satan has no more authority now over those who are in Christ.Satan still roams this Earthy like a roaring lion and continues to deceive many.

So what happened to the literalness of the Scripture ?

 

[jonahmano]

You are mistaken. Holy Spirit from the mind of Paul never says that they walked according to the course of this world. Here we don't read that Satan terminating his power as prince of the power of the air.

I won't argue this with you. Paul established churches and managed them. The epistles he wrote were letters to that effect. I am a Christian. Not a Pauline.

Yes indeed. And that is what lends to the confusion in this discourse. John, chronologically speaking, was written before the scripture in Peter wherein we are told Satan roams the earth like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour.
I believe the casting out of the enemy shall take place, and that scripture in John makes that promise, when Christ returns.

Otherwise, how do we explain those scriptures after that that refer to Satan, evil, sin, etc... being at issue here? And Satan being behind it all due to his presence here?

Doesn't matter whether you argue or not. All scriptures are God breathed and they have revelation. the epistles were not only to the early church but to us all. I don't mind if you call me Pauline or Christian. All scriptures are God breathed and I'm a Christian too so is Saint Paul and I truly believe that all the words written in the bible are inspired by the Holy Spirit. If you don't have any arguments then it's well and ok. but according to the Ephesians 2, Satan still rules this corrupt world and Christ is the head of his true church.

 

[jonahmano]

Kathi So what is your interpretation of the Words of Jesus here
Joh 12:30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
Joh 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

That means that from this time forth the prince of the world will be cast out. That means the works of Satan will be decimated by the body of Christ

 

[jonahmano]

I have found that much of what god does is a process. are we saved? yup but are we 100% holy pure and sinless at this point? NO.

.

if my boss isn't saved them whom am I working for? I serve the president of the united states of America. lawfully and by oath. we both know that Obama isn't much of a friend to Christianity at times.im also bound to not to say much on what is going on for a local potilical issues where by some so called Christians lied and lie to the people. satan has whatever power we give him. that Is what I meant. if the church spoke up and dealt with sin and did give, the sinners would come instead we fight, and argue and cheat each other. whom really is a fault for this? US. satan is a liar he is doing his job to deceive. that is what he does but he cant rule the world without god allowing it. he never was without a restraint.

If you are conscience is not clear then why do you work for your boss. You can join some ministry and live a better life. If Jesus was ruling this world then there wouldn't have been any evil in this world.

 

[Kathi]

So what happened to the literalness of the Scripture ?

Like I have said not every passage can be taken literally.But you must take scripture literally where it is intended.We need to dissect verses we need to find out what the Author intended to communicate.We need to pay attention to the context.Alot of the Bible should be taken literally whenever possible.

 

[Kathi]

One of the biggest lies that Satan has going for him now is that their is no Satan and no hell.Many believers and non-believers soak up this lie.It is the biggest advantage that you can give to Satan.He loves it.

 

[reba]

Agree Kathi .. We all do not see the the same literalism, in the same places.... I am so happy His Word is not a cut and dry list although that might be easier...

 

[jasonc]

If you are conscience is not clear then why do you work for your boss. You can join some ministry and live a better life. If Jesus was ruling this world then there wouldn't have been any evil in this world.

churches can be just as bad. I learned that lesson a long time ago. the world and I have never said it was a sinless and perfect one. im not called to be a full time minister. I stated what I said about Obama to make a point. I don't like much of his policies but im also pragmatic. if it was a republican doing some of this.some here might be defending that stuff.

I aslo know the us government can favor a religion. I could really derail this thread on that with the idea of how the government schools can be hostile to the faith. I leave that issue up to the parents on how they see best to raise their kids but im not going to damn a Christian whom simply cant afford to send their kid to a private school or cant home school.

 

[Genesis Owl]

but according to the Ephesians 2, Satan still rules this corrupt world and Christ is the head of his true church.

Firstly, I did not call you Pauline. I clarified my own identity.
Secondly, Ephesians 2 as I read it speaks of the sons of disobedience, meaning those who are unbelievers in God, who go against God's will and word, who are rebellious to the offering of the plan of redemption. Whereas in that passage Paul is speaking of God's mercy and grace having saved the believers from the prince of the power of the air.
So yes, the enemy still walks the earth seeking souls to devour. As we're told in Peter. But those souls would belong to those sons of disobedience.

While back in John 12:31, we read that the prince of this world will be driven out. And further in John 12 we are told that no matter, the lost sheep of that house of Israel would still not believe in the Messiah. Even as Isaiah prophesied.

John 12: 47 "As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it."

While the confusion continues, when we read just two chapters over in John 14,
John 14:28-31New International Version (NIV)
28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

It then appears to afford a contention between the faithful in Christ who , in one camp believe Satan was cast out of this world at the cross. And those who read that Satan is still a factor in the world as prince of this world.

But, as friends have mentioned when we discuss along these lines, what really makes things curious is 1 Timothy 4:10. That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

When that scripture tells us that Jesus is savior of all men, meaning at the cross, and especially those that believe, the domain of the prince of this world should be at an end. Because Jesus saved all people from him at the cross.

 

[BigSodaExposer]

I'm convinced fallen angels run the world in high level positions. I do not think they have all authority. But submit to Christ. Its like Jesus built the stage, and "allows" them to dance around on it. Hence the devil still has authority of some kind because he gives it to the beast in revelation.

Some other verses that suggest fallen angel control

1 Corinthians 6:3 "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"

Why would we judge heavenly angels?

 

[Kathi]

I'm convinced fallen angels run the world in high level positions. I do not think they have all authority. But submit to Christ. Its like Jesus built the stage, and "allows" them to dance around on it. Hence the devil still has authority of some kind because he gives it to the beast in revelation.

Some other verses that suggest fallen angel control

1 Corinthians 6:3 "Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?"

Why would we judge heavenly angels?

We will be the resurrected Church.We will have authority to judge the Angels.