satan; the ruling god of this word.

[Sinthesis]

How could Jesus' Church have grown so much over the past two thousand years if Satan rules the globe? Satan doesn't strike me as the kind of king who would tolerate so much dissent.

 

[reba]

How could Jesus' Church have grown so much over the past two thousand years if Satan rules the globe? Satan doesn't strike me as the kind of king who would tolerate so much dissent.

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan was cast down to the earth and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man.
(Ezekiel 28:13-17; Ephesians 2:2; Ephesian 6:12)

 

[agua.]

How could Jesus' Church have grown so much over the past two thousand years if Satan rules the globe? Satan doesn't strike me as the kind of king who would tolerate so much dissent.

Probably in the same way Yahweh has always protected the believing remnant. How do you think Abraham survived and became a great nation ?

 

[agua.]

Yes, Jesus' kingdom is not from this world, but that in no way means that it is not currently in this world with Jesus reigning as King. His point is that he goes about things differently than people of the world do, not that his kingdom is of no consequence, since it clearly is quite the opposite.

Yes Jesus' Kingdom is in this world and we are part of that and it certainly has consequence. I'm not sure why you think I'd suggest otherwise Free.

This simply means that Satan has influence in this world, that people follow him, so in that respect, he can control unbelievers.

Rather, we see that Jesus is currently reigning now:

1 Cor 15:23-26, 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. 24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. (ESV)

Phil 2:8-11, 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (ESV)

If Jesus is reigning now, as we see above, then Satan can't be ruling.

Free I've never suggested satan can control believers. The issue is who controls what in this present age and the world as described by Jesus ie. the unbelieving portion, is under control of satan. Eventually, during the Millennium, this unbelieving portion of the world will be "put under His feet". Do you believe Jesus is currently reigning over the unbelieving portion of the world ?

There is nothing to suggest that when the millennium begins, Jesus isn't already ruling. If Satan is ruling now, then Jesus' death really didn't do much, did it? What do you think the purpose of his death and resurrection were for? Simply for us to be saved? Is that all there is to it?

Jesus is already ruling His Kingdom and yes the pinnacle of the reason for Jesus death and resurrection was to save us into eternal life and this gives us the blessed assurance at the resurrection. Jesus also became a curse for us and the curse upon all creation will be lifted because of this. We have protection from satan as the believing remnant always has had. Tell me what you believe Jesus' death and resurrection was for ?

Be very careful in appealing to Revelation, it is not in chronological order--some things in it have happened and some things have yet to happen.

Yes possibly although there does appear to be an ordered tendency in rev it's a matter of when certain events occur. Take a look at the "when satan was/is cast down" thread and give your thoughts I'd like to see them. Thanks Brother Free.

 

[Shep_]

In one of Niel Gaemon's books (I think) Lucifer was supposedly God's caretaker. He was charged with the responsibility of turning on the lights - literally "igniting" the stars, before he fell.

 

[for_his_glory]

In one of Niel Gaemon's books (I think) Lucifer was supposedly God's caretaker. He was charged with the responsibility of turning on the lights - literally "igniting" the stars, before he fell.

Lucifer’s name meant lightbearer when he was created as he was a reflection of Gods brightness as one who had favor in the Lord. God changed his name to Satan, which means adversary, after he fell from heaven. God changed many names from one to another in the Bible to reflect his glory through them as a nation. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and wisdom as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own and iniquity soon filled his heart as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God. Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.

(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus)

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.


Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

 

[Deborah13]

Lucifer’s name meant lightbearer when he was created as he was a reflection of Gods brightness as one who had favor in the Lord. God changed his name to Satan, which means adversary, after he fell from heaven. God changed many names from one to another in the Bible to reflect his glory through them as a nation. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as the guardian or protector over the throne of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord.

God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and wisdom as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own and iniquity soon filled his heart as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God. Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.

(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus)

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.


Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Have you ever considered that when God placed the beautiful lightbearer in the garden that Adam and Eve were in the garden at the same time?
And that the serpent who beguiled her was the lightbearer?
And this was the exposing of his iniquity?

 

[for_his_glory]

Satan was cast down to the earth and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man which is why he had the power and right to give the kingdoms of the world over to Christ. Satan corrupted the nations until there was no righteous person found except Noah. Even after Satan was cast down to the ground he still vowed that he would ascend back into heaven and take his place on the throne and be like the most high.

Remember, Satan is a spirit and not flesh and blood so when he was cut down to the ground it was not literal, but symbolic that his so called kingdom would be that of a lesser magnitude than Gods kingdom. Satan is the total opposite of the love that God represents so whatever good that God does Satan does the opposite. For instance we know that the greatest commandment of God is to love and our commission is to take his word out into the world. Our service is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit the sick and those in prison. Prison can be a literal prison or those who are imprisoned in mind by their own devastation of life circumstances that engulfs them. Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.

Ezekiel 28:13-17; Isaiah 14:12-15

 

[Shep_]

How does Satan corrupt people?

 

[Claudya]

How does Satan corrupt people?

I'm sure someone will come up with a perfect Biblical answer. But my suspicion is that many Christians conveniently refer to the devil and his corruption instead of taking responsibility for their own dark sides. That's one of the details that bothers me a lot about my Christian sisters and brothers.

 

[Sinthesis]

I'm sure someone will come up with a perfect Biblical answer. But my suspicion is that many Christians conveniently refer to the devil and his corruption instead of taking responsibility for their own dark sides. That's one of the details that bothers me a lot about my Christian sisters and brothers.

I think in a general sense Satan shows us how to justify our dark sides to ourselves. People seem to always have a justification for corruption.

 

[Deborah13]

I'm sure someone will come up with a perfect Biblical answer. But my suspicion is that many Christians conveniently refer to the devil and his corruption instead of taking responsibility for their own dark sides. That's one of the details that bothers me a lot about my Christian sisters and brothers.

I think we are men who sin. And that certainly satan can be involved with corruption both in worldly matters and with individuals but that doesn't mean he always is.
We are very much responsible for our actions, unforgiveness, selfishness, pride (arrogance), all idolatry in whatever form it takes.

 

[Shep_]

The point of responsibility is what prompted the question, for (1) How do you know Satan is corrupting you (2) How exactly DOES he corrupt you (3) Does he have magic powers that "override" your freewill (4) How do you distinguish between Satans corruption and your own - "before you judge others, first take the speck out of your own eye" I think it goes. :P

 

[Deborah13]

The point of responsibility is what prompted the question, for (1) How do you know Satan is corrupting you (2) How exactly DOES he corrupt you (3) Does he have magic powers that "override" your freewill (4) How do you distinguish between Satans corruption and your own - "before you judge others, first take the speck out of your own eye" I think it goes. :tongue

Before I could even make a responsible attempt to answer these questions are you asking how he relates to people who believe in the risen Lord Jesus or to people who do not believe? I've been on both sides of the fence.

 

[agua.]

The point of responsibility is what prompted the question, for (1) How do you know Satan is corrupting you

Everything corrupted initiated with satan. In a sense every person faces a similar decision Adam and Eve did. Obey God or follow satan.

(2) How exactly DOES he corrupt you

There are many ways satan corrupts and the Bible tells us he can transform himself into an angel of light and perform great wonders etc. So we can be corrupted by following teachings that may appear good. There's also an indication devils can assume human form eg the beast and false prophet.

(3) Does he have magic powers that "override" your freewill

he has the power to posses non believers and to oppress everyone spiritually. It's not a matter of overriding freewill but people willingly inviting him in.

(4) How do you distinguish between Satans corruption and your own - "before you judge others, first take the speck out of your own eye" I think it goes. :tongue

We are responsible for everything we do and the "devil made me do it" isn't a valid excuse. satan corrupts but this doesn't remove the responsibility of people to resist him. Same as Adam and Eve. We can be corrupted by simply following our own desires eg. lust of the eyes, flesh, and the pride of life.

Being corrupted by following our own ungodly desires eg. lust of the eyes, flesh, and the pride of life simply means we are voluntarily becoming part of satan's domain.

1Jn 2:15-16 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. (16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

This is why Christians are considered in the world but not of the world.

 

[Deborah13]

Shep_ never mind what I would say. @agua said it better than I could. I agree with his statement.

 

[turnorburn]

aqua said:

How does Satan rule and blind people to the Gospel ?

Through subtilty

II Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

tob

 

[Shep_]

Hey Agua, thanks for the replies.

Everything corrupted initiated with satan. In a sense every person faces a similar decision Adam and Eve did. Obey God or follow satan.

If God created everything, including Satan, wasn't it God that initiated the corruption? How did a population of 6 billion people come about from Adam and Eve? Does not believing in God equate to following Satan?

There are many ways satan corrupts and the Bible tells us he can transform himself into an angel of light and perform great wonders etc. So we can be corrupted by following teachings that may appear good. There's also an indication devils can assume human form eg the beast and false prophet.

What are these great wonders?
How does Satan transform himself into an Angel of light?
What is Satan made of?
What are Angels made of?
There's more than one Devil?
How do they assume human form?
By beast do you mean other animals like dogs and cats?

he has the power to posses non believers and to oppress everyone spiritually. It's not a matter of overriding freewill but people willingly inviting him in.

Does it say in scripture he can possess non believers?
Why doesn't he possess believers?
Are you saying only nonbelievers can be possessed because of there lack of belief in a God?
How do people invite them in?

We are responsible for everything we do and the "devil made me do it" isn't a valid excuse. satan corrupts but this doesn't remove the responsibility of people to resist him. Same as Adam and Eve. We can be corrupted by simply following our own desires eg. lust of the eyes, flesh, and the pride of life.

I thought you said everything corrupted starts with Satan, isn't then asserting that we're responsible for everything (including our corruption) contradictory?

Being corrupted by following our own ungodly desires eg. lust of the eyes, flesh, and the pride of life simply means we are voluntarily becoming part of satan's domain.

Doesn't that coincide with the above contradiction?

 

[jasonc]

god didn't create satan. satan made him self satan. he chose to rebel. satan means to oppose

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/satan.html#.UzYtgabn_mI