Saved by Grace Through Faith, Not by Works

[Nathan]

lol. I know exactly what it is. The indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is God's seal upon those who have believed, as a mark of God's own possession.

What do you think it is?


That isn't my view at all. Not even close. Apparently you've not understand my position at all, if that's your view of my position.

I think you messed up your post thingy. I told you what I know it is. If you cared to read my posts.

Kind of hard to respond to the rest of your thoughts. If you want to fix it, I would be glad to respond.

 

[Nathan]

Seriously?

Yes

How can anyone link 9:4,5 to 11:29?

Because they are both in the letter to the Romans? Or maybe because they speak of the same things in the correct context?

What a huge leap.

Not really, its actually a smaller one than jumping all the way back to chapter 6.

In fact, those who read carefully will find that Paul makes NO MENTION of anything underlined (by you) as described as gifts.

Are all those things earned? Are they man made? Hmmmmmm........so that would mean God gave them right? Do you call something someone gives you a gift?

And once again, the "gifts" mentioned in 11:29 are NOT just promises of something.

Right, here is the definition of the word;

chárisma, khar'-is-mah; from G5483; a (divine) gratuity, i.e. deliverance (from danger or passion); (specially), a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty:—(free) gift.

Interesting, do you see the word "eternal" or "life" in that definition?

The gifts are real. Not promises.

I would tend to think that both gifts and promises are real. Not sure why you do not. Any passages that say this?

And OSNAS cannot define these gifts.

I keep on seeing this being brought up, but I have yet to meet this "OSNAS". Maybe they will chime in sometime?

While the underlined things do belong to Israel, that doesn't automatically mean they are gifts.

Well, I figure that unless they made them, or earned them, or found them without anyones help - then someone must have gave them to Israel - I always called that a "gift".

The ONLY WAY to understand what Paul means by "the gifts of God" are to look for what Paul himself defined as gifts that are from God.

I figure that a gift is a gift.

And he did so, 3 times:
1. spiritual gifts in 1:11
2. justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life in 6:23

Yep, them are gifts too.

He certainly had these 3 gifts in mind for 11:29.

Actually, that's your thought. If you got some proof of this I am all ears.

 

[Gregg T]

What you do not see in this passage, is that someone has to just have a moment of belief in Him. To say it is a moment of belief is interposing teaching that is not present.

To that I would answer with two examples of punctiliar belief (a belief definite and particular):

Joh 6:29 "Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe [a definite and particular occurrence] into Him whom that One sent."

Anyone who exercises a definite and particular occurrence of belief into Christ, into so as to be joined to Him, is saved from that moment forward.

 

[Nathan]

To that I would answer with two examples of punctiliar belief (a belief definite and particular):

Joh 6:29 "Jesus answered and said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe [a definite and particular occurrence] into Him whom that One sent."

Anyone who exercises a definite and particular occurrence of belief into Christ, into so as to be joined to Him, is saved from that moment forward.

I suppose you know what the word "work" means.

érgon, er'-gon; from a primary (but obsolete) ἔργω érgō (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:—deed, doing, labour, work.

When I 'work' I most definitely have a time when I arrive - and start my work. I do not arive at work, and then turn around and leave - thinking that I have worked the entire day.

In order to prove your idea that a belief is a one time "event", you would have to show where God does not require, much less request, continual faith(belief). What I find is the opposite of what your proposing;

Rom 11:20-23
That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

Seems to me that continuance is a must.

 

[FreeGrace]

I think you messed up your post thingy.

What is a "post thingy"?

Kind of hard to respond to the rest of your thoughts. If you want to fix it, I would be glad to respond.

There is nothing to fix. My posts are clear enough.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"How can anyone link 9:4,5 to 11:29?"

Because they are both in the letter to the Romans?

So are the 3 specific gifts that Paul mentioned in the letter to the Romans. Therefore, eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable.

Not really, its actually a smaller one than jumping all the way back to chapter 6.

No jump or leap, either. Paul spoke of God's gifts in 3 places before he penned 11:29. They are therefore included in 11:29.

The subject of 11:29 are the gifts and call of God. So ANYTHING Paul noted as being a gift of God would be included in 11:29.

Are all those things earned? Are they man made? Hmmmmmm........so that would mean God gave them right? Do you call something someone gives you a gift?

Where in ch 9 would one find where those underlined things were gifted to Israel?

Right, here is the definition of the word;

chárisma, khar'-is-mah; from G5483; a (divine) gratuity, i.e. deliverance (from danger or passion); (specially), a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subjectively) religious qualification, or (objectively) miraculous faculty:—(free) gift.

Interesting, do you see the word "eternal" or "life" in that definition?

No, but I do see it in Rom 6:23 where Paul describes eternal life as a gift of God.

Why would anyone think that the words "eternal" or "life" would be included in the definition of charisma?? Gifts come in all kinds, 3 of which Paul described as gifts:
1. spiritual gifts in 1:11
2. justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life in 6:23

All 3 of these GIFTS are included in the gifts in 11:29.

I would tend to think that both gifts and promises are real. Not sure why you do not. Any passages that say this?

<sigh> 11:29 speaks of gifts and God's call, not "promises".

Well, I figure that unless they made them, or earned them, or found them without anyones help - then someone must have gave them to Israel - I always called that a "gift".

The point is: Paul didn't. So you don't have a point. Just more assuming.

I figure that a gift is a gift.

Of course it is. Now, just show me where the underlined things of ch 9 are called a gift. That would be a start.

otoh, I can show you where Paul mentioned 3 actual things as gifts of God.

1. spiritual gifts in 1:11
2. justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life in 6:23

Yep, them are gifts too.

And there are all irrevocable, according to Paul.

I said this:
"He certainly had these 3 gifts in mind for 11:29."

Actually, that's your thought. If you got some proof of this I am all ears.

Well, let's start with what Paul described as gifts of God: just look up where I listed them. And then he noted that God's gifts are irrevocable.

So, what's the problem? Eternal life is irrevocable. Paul described eternal life as a gift of God and then said that the gifts of God are irrevocable.

 

[Gregg T]

I suppose you know what the word "work" means.

érgon, er'-gon; from a primary (but obsolete) ἔργω érgō (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act:—deed, doing, labour, work.

When I 'work' I most definitely have a time when I arrive - and start my work. I do not arive at work, and then turn around and leave - thinking that I have worked the entire day.

In order to prove your idea that a belief is a one time "event", you would have to show where God does not require, much less request, continual faith(belief). What I find is the opposite of what your proposing;

Rom 11:20-23
That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

Seems to me that continuance is a must.

I was talking about the work of God. You didn't address the work of God, but diverted the topic to 1. your work, and 2. an unrelated verse.

What two people can communicate in this manner?

 

[Nathan]

I was talking about the work of God. You didn't address the work of God, but diverted the topic to 1. your work, and 2. an unrelated verse.

What two people can communicate in this manner?

Actually, I was talking about the work of God. Maybe your missing the context of the passage. It's easy to do when you only focus on one verse.

The "unrelated" verse(lol) is related to your thinking that belief in Christ is a momentary thing.

I've noticed that people who hold to a particular belief tend to not want to see things that contradict. It seems to me that your trying to divert the conversation because it goes against the idea we don't have to continue in belief.

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"How can anyone link 9:4,5 to 11:29?"

You sure did. . And then I said because they are in the same letter.

So are the 3 specific gifts that Paul mentioned in the letter to the Romans.

I would agree.

Therefore, eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

No jump or leap, either. Paul spoke of God's gifts in 3 places before he penned 11:29. They are therefore included in 11:29.

Yea, so, where are they listed in that passsge?

The subject of 11:29 are the gifts and call of God. So ANYTHING Paul noted as being a gift of God would be included in 11:29.

And calling right?

Where in ch 9 would one find where those underlined things were gifted to Israel?

Same place they are listed in ch 11

No, but I do see it in Rom 6:23 where Paul describes eternal life as a gift of God.

Well, I do see it spoke of there.

Why would anyone think that the words "eternal" or "life" would be included in the definition of charisma?? Gifts come in all kinds, 3 of which Paul described as gifts:
1. spiritual gifts in 1:11
2. justification in 3:24 and 5:15,16,17
3. eternal life in 6:23

Yea, I'm not sure why they would be.

All 3 of these GIFTS are included in the gifts in 11:29.

Still not seeing them. I looked again just to make sure.

<sigh> 11:29 speaks of gifts and God's call, not "promises".

The point is: Paul didn't. So you don't have a point. Just more assuming.

Interesting. You define a gift another way? No assuming here, just using common sense......

And there are all irrevocable, according to Paul.

Yep, I still do not think that word means what you think it means.

Well, let's start with what Paul described as gifts of God: just look up where I listed them. And then he noted that God's gifts are irrevocable.

Um, there is that word again.

So, what's the problem? Eternal life is irrevocable. Paul described eternal life as a gift of God and then said that the gifts of God are irrevocable.

No problem here. Do you have one over there? Eternal life is irrevocable because He is God.

I'm starting to think you might not know what either words are. Do you know that Eternal Life is Jesus, not a thing?

1 John 5:20 (ESV)
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 5:39 (ESV)
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

 

[Gregg T]

Actually, I was talking about the work of God. Maybe your missing the context of the passage. It's easy to do when you only focus on one verse.

The "unrelated" verse(lol) is related to your thinking that belief in Christ is a momentary thing.

I've noticed that people who hold to a particular belief tend to not want to see things that contradict. It seems to me that your trying to divert the conversation because it goes against the idea we don't have to continue in belief.

You are still avoiding an explanation of Jn 6:29. That's my last word on the matter.

 

[Nathan]

You are still avoiding an explanation of Jn 6:29. That's my last word on the matter.

I'm not avoiding it. I'm sorry you feel that way. I think that you expect me to say something you want to hear, and anything else constitutes avoidance?

John 6
22 On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone.
23 Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks.
24 So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.
25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, "Rabbi, when did you come here?"
26 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.
27 Do not labor for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you. For on him God the Father has set his seal."
28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"
29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."
30 So they said to him, "Then what sign do you do, that we may see and believe you? What work do you perform?
31 Our fathers ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written, 'He gave them bread from heaven to eat.'"
32 Jesus then said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34 They said to him, "Sir, give us this bread always."

Verse 29 comes as a response to a question Jesus was asked. A person in the crowd that followed Him, asked Him what they could do to be doing the works of God. This question was in response to them hearing Jesus telling them not to labour for the food that perishes, but that which leads to eternal life - which comes from the Son, who the Father has set His seal.

So they obviously wanted to know how to "work" for this food that leads to eternal life. They knew, as all men did back then, that you worked for your food. They were not like people these days that just go get some food from the store. Jesus told them they should labour for the better food.

Not wanting them to think they could actually acquire it through their works, He told them the "work" of God, that is, the work that God wants them to do, is to believe in the Son.

So they understood it very clearly that the labour, which is the work they needed to do, was to believe. Just as they knew they could not just go to the fields and get their food to eat for the body, they understood that belief was not just a one time "thought" they were to have in the Son. This is why they asked Him for a sign. They wanted absolute assurance they were not going to be "working" for something that was not true.

This is the same principle we find Paul telling Timothy.

2 Timothy 2
1 You then, my child, be strengthened by the grace that is in Christ Jesus,
2 and what you have heard from me in the presence of many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
3 Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.
4 No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him.
5 An athlete is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules.
6 It is the hard-working farmer who ought to have the first share of the crops.
7 Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

You see, you cannot just believe for a moment and then go on to do other things. Just as it is not right for a farmer to go out in the field, spend an hour out there working, and then expect to come back at harvest time and receive a share. It is the hardworking farmer who should be the one to have first share in the crops.

The whole point of John 6:29 is to tell the people that they cannot do anything to earn eternal life, but rather they should labor in the faith of Him to receive it from God. There is zero implication given that what they needed to do was just believe once and go on their way - expecting that a moment in time belief would produce the food that leads to eternal life.

I still think the fact that some don't understand that eternal life is Jesus, is what throws people's understanding of it off. We receive eternal life(Christ) when we believe, through the Spirit coming to dwell in us. If we abandon that faith(belief) then just like a farmer should not expect crops if he abandons a field, we should not expect eternal life to continue in us.

This is why Romans 11:20-23 is applicable. Also we see it spoken of in Colossians.

Colossians 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things were created through him and for him.
17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.
19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,
20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.
21 And you, who once were alienated and hostile in mind, doing evil deeds,
22 he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him,
23 if indeed you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

 

[MarkT]

I said this:
"I don't think you're getting the concept. The gift itself is irrevocable. Meaning, those who have been given that gift, which is eternal life (Rom 6:23), cannot lose it. The Bible doesn't have to state it the way you seem to want it. 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable. And etrenal life is one of those gifts."

Is this a suggestion that Rom 6:23 and 11:29 are saying something DIFFERENT than what I have said? Please clarify.

l see it as a statement affirming God's promise to Israel; an affirmation of God's faithfulness. The call and the gifts were supposed to go to Israel, but a hardening had come upon a part of Israel so that they did not believe. The elect obtained it , but the rest were hardened. Rom. 11:7 The Gentiles had attained the righteousness that comes by faith. Meanwhile Israel had stumbled. But Paul said it's not as if the word of God had failed, for he said, a hardening has come upon a part of Israel until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and so all Israel will be saved Rom. 11:25-26 Then he made his statement affirming the reliability of the word of God.

But about the gifts, Jesus said God gives good gifts to his children. Mt. 7:11 So what ever you wish that men would do to you, do so to them; for this is the law and the prophets. Mt. 7:12

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

The word is whoever believes in him not whoever used to believe in him.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I referenced Jn 3:14-18, to which you replied:


Please thoughtfully, honestly, openly examine Jn 3:14-18 to state your case for OSNAS or against OSAS. I will read your reply carefully.

14“As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (John 3:14-18 NASB)

Non-OSAS simply states that as long as one is satisfying the condition for believing that Jesus sets forth he will never die and will possess exactly what Christ said he will have--eternal life. This in no way nullifies or contradicts the above passage. But, to say one does not have to believe to have eternal life (as Hyper-grace OSAS claims) instantly nullifies and contradicts what Jesus said in the above passage.

The condition for never perishing and possessing the life that is eternal is believing. That's what the passage says. If you do not believe in him you do not have eternal life. But Hyper-grace insists that you do not have to believe to have eternal life.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Huh?? This sounds like "despite their unbelief" they will "not lose out on the gifts and calling of God". So, just what are these "gifts of God" that even unbelievers are going to get??

Despite their rejection of the Messiah, a remnant of Jews will still be able to believe and be saved, Paul himself being the proof of that. Paul explains that here:

21But as for Israel He says, “ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”
1I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
(Romans 10:21 NASB, Romans 11:1-2 NASB capitals in original, bold mine)

That's what "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29 NASB) means. Despite the Jews rejection of Messiah God has not revoked the gifts and the calling from them. Paul, an Israelite, being saved is proof of that. The gifts and calling of God being irrevocable has nothing to do with a person believing then not believing, but still having eternal life. That's not what Paul himself says the gifts and calling of God being irrevocable means. The OSAS interpretation of vs.29 cant' be true anyway because that interpretation violates Jesus' condition for having eternal life--believing.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Therefore, eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable."

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Why do all Greek scholars use that word? What do you know that they don't?

Yep, I still do not think that word means what you think it means.

Please don't be coy. Spill the beans.

Eternal life is irrevocable because He is God.

Wow. There is that word again. Yes, eternal liife is irrevocable. That means it can't be taken away.

I'm starting to think you might not know what either words are. Do you know that Eternal Life is Jesus, not a thing?

I guess you'll need to correct Jesus then, because He said this:
"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish." John 10:28

1 John 5:20 (ESV)
And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

John 5:39 (ESV)
You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me,

Eternal life is both Him and it's a gift that He gives.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I said this:
"I don't think you're getting the concept. The gift itself is irrevocable. Meaning, those who have been given that gift, which is eternal life (Rom 6:23), cannot lose it. The Bible doesn't have to state it the way you seem to want it. 11:29 says that God's gifts are irrevocable. And etrenal life is one of those gifts."

Is this a suggestion that Rom 6:23 and 11:29 are saying something DIFFERENT than what I have said? Please clarify."

l see it as a statement affirming God's promise to Israel; an affirmation of God's faithfulness.

There is no promise found in Rom 11:29. There is a statement about God's gifts. That they are irrevocable.

Do you understand there is a difference between a promise and a gift?

The call and the gifts were supposed to go to Israel, but a hardening had come upon a part of Israel so that they did not believe. The elect obtained it , but the rest were hardened.

Meaning, God's gifts and call were revoked on the basis of unbelief. Seriously? You've just turned Rom 11:29 on its head.

Further, Paul described 3 specific gifts that are from God and they are given to Gentiles as well. Regarding God's call, Paul even noted that God has called Gentiles.

So, there is nothing in Rom 11:29 about being only for Israel.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Huh?? This sounds like "despite their unbelief" they will "not lose out on the gifts and calling of God". So, just what are these "gifts of God" that even unbelievers are going to get??"

Despite their rejection of the Messiah, a remnant of Jews will still be able to believe and be saved, Paul himself being the proof of that.

God's gifts are NOT "being able to believe and be saved". Paul NEVER described that as a gift of God. Paul is the ONLY ONE who has the right to define what he means by "gifts of God", and he did that in the letter to the Romans.

Paul explains that here:

21But as for Israel He says, “ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE.”
1I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew.
(Romans 10:21 NASB, Romans 11:1-2 NASB capitals in original, bold mine)

That's what "for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29 NASB) means.

Nonsense. There is nothing here about God's gifts. Paul already described what he meant by "God's gifts".

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"Therefore, eternal life, a gift of God, is irrevocable."

Why do all Greek scholars use that word? What do you know that they don't?


Please don't be coy. Spill the beans.


Wow. There is that word again. Yes, eternal liife is irrevocable. That means it can't be taken away.


I guess you'll need to correct Jesus then, because He said this:
"I give them eternal life, and they will never perish." John 10:28


Eternal life is both Him and it's a gift that He gives.

Well, let's just lay it out. The "gift" is the Spirit in us. That's the only eternal life in us.

The word you keep using means "not repented of; unregretted". It's used in 2 Corinthians 7:10.

What that means is God does not regret giving them. The meaning has zero to do with not rejecting them. You keep using it out of its context(which means you keep using the verse without understand how it was meant with the other ones around it).

Romans 11
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, "The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob";
27 "and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins."
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.
32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

If you look at the sentence right before it, you see that they(Israel) are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. When you then read the next sentence, you see that Paul was saying that God does not regret what He is doing with the work in bringing mercy. Because, He is doing for the sake of their forefathers - therefore He does not regret what He gives and calls even when Israel rejects it.

This has zero to do with not being able to be rejected. We know that many people reject Gods gifts. What it does mean is God does not regret giving them - even when they are rejected. That is the correct meaning of the word "irrevocable".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God's gifts are NOT "being able to believe and be saved". Paul NEVER described that as a gift of God.

So now salvation/ eternal life is NOT a gift?
You're going to have to be more consistent in your argument.

I will show you plainly that Romans 11:29 does not mean once a person believes they can turn back to unbelief and they still get to keep their eternal life. Beginning at verse 1 in the chapter...

Paul explains that God has not rejected his people who have rejected the Messiah:
"God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!" (Romans 11:1 NASB)

He uses himself, a born again Israelite possessing the gifts and calling of God, to prove his point that God has not revoked His gifts and calling to Israel:
"For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew." (Romans 11:1-2 NASB)

Paul explains this is so because God maintains a remnant of Jews by his gift of grace, again showing how, despite the Israelites rejection of Messiah, God has not revoked His gifts and calling to Israel:
"5 ...there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice." (Romans 11:5 NASB)

Paul uses the analogy of the Olive tree to describe the Israelites rejection of Messiah:
"...they were broken off for their unbelief..." (Romans 11:20 NASB)

The he explains how, despite them having been broken off because of rejecting Messiah, they can be grafted in again if they have faith, once again showing how God has not revoked His gifts and calling to them:
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again." (Romans 11:23 NASB)

Paul explains that in regard to the gospel, and their rejection of it, they are enemies, but, God still loves them because of his promise to their Fathers and so has not revoked His gifts and calling to them.
28From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers; 29for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:28-29 NASB)
The gifts and calling of God for Israel are irrevocable because God still loves them because of his relationship with their Fathers. As we can see this has NOTHING to do whatsoever with a person getting saved, then falling away into unbelief, but still getting to keep his eternal life. Nothing whatsoever.

Paul explains that just as the gentiles have received God's mercy in salvation because of disobedience, so the Jews will receive God's mercy in salvation because of their disobedience, again showing us that God has not revoked his gifts and calling from them.
"30For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all." (Romans 11:30-32 NASB)


So we can easily see that the context of Romans 11 itself tells us what "the gifts and the calling of God is irrevocable" means. It means God has not abandoned the Israelites and a remnant does have his gifts and calling, even though the nation itself has rejected the Messiah. But OSAS un-rightly divides vs. 29 out from the context of the chapter and assigns it's own meaning to it which the chapter says nothing about.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This has zero to do with not being able to be rejected. We know that many people reject Gods gifts. What it does mean is God does not regret giving them - even when they are rejected. That is the correct meaning of the word "irrevocable".

Or more accurately, God has not 'changed his mind' about the gifts and calling of God to Israel even though they have rejected Messiah. There will always be Jews who believe and receive the gifts and calling of God. He can't change his mind about that, even though they deserve to be utterly forsaken, because He made promises to the Patriarchs that can not be broken. The believing, saved remnant of Israel proves that his gifts and calling to Israel will not, and can not be revoked.

As any honest person can see, the passage has absolutely nothing to do with a person believing, then not believing, but still being able to keep his eternal life. But that is what OSAS insists we believe that Paul is saying in vs. 29.