Scripture Studies Re Babylon

[JHM]

I am quite aware that there is a separate word for country. I am also aware that the Bible often speaks metaphorically. How else can a "head" be a mountain that is a king that has not yet come ? Similarly how else can a "head" be a mountain that is a king that has recovered from a mortal wound ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I am quite aware that there is a separate word for country. I am also aware that the Bible often speaks metaphorically. How else can a "head" be a mountain that is a king that has not yet come ? Similarly how else can a "head" be a mountain that is a king that has recovered from a mortal wound ?

Rev 17;9
And here is the mind which has wisdom.The seven heads are seven mountains,on which the woman sittest.
rev 17;9 is describing the terrain the city sits on.
Rev 17;10
And there are seven kings;five are fallen.and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.
Rev 17;11
And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eigth,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.
Rev 17;10-11 is describing the goverment (kingdom)that rules from this city and the goverments (kingdoms)that it has been "of".

Rev17;18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city,which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Polis-its a city.
I wouldnt worry about the kings of the earth destroying her just yet.They are not allowed to till 70 years have been completed.

Rev 18;7
How much she hath glorified herself,and lived deliciously,so much torment and sorrow give her;for she saith in her heart,I sit a queen ,and am no widow,and shall see no sorrow.
Jerusalem calls herself the city of God and her children say never again.
Do you see anything wrong with these claims?

 

[JHM]

Yes, the mind that has wisdom. What is wrong with what you said ? You separate the hills from the kings. It doesn't say :

Rev 17;9
And here is the mind which has wisdom.The seven heads are seven mountains,on which the woman sittest.
rev 17;9 is describing the terrain the city sits on.
Rev 17;10
And there are seven kings;five are fallen.and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.

It says that the mountains ARE kings etc.

Revelations 13 1-3 (Jerusalem Bible)
“Then I saw a beast emerge from the sea: it had seven heads and ten horns, ... the dragon had handed over to it his own power and his throne and his worldwide authority. I saw that one of its heads seemed to have had a fatal wound but that this deadly injury had healed ...â€Â

Revelations 17 3-5 (Revised Standard Version)
“And he carried me away in the Spirit to a wilderness, and I saw a woman (arrayed in purple and scarlet and bedecked with gold and jewels) sitting on a scarlet beast ... and it had seven heads and ten horns ... and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, ...’.â€Â

Revelations 17 7-8 (Revised Standard Version)
“... the angel said to me, ‘... I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. The beast that you saw was, and is not ...’ .â€Â

Revelations 17 9-11 (Revised Standard Version)
“... the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other is not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, ...’.â€Â

Note: Consider the description of the seven headed beast which “wields worldwide authorityâ€Â, as applied to the “G7", which does in fact influence worldwide events. Seven heads, - Seven voting members. Five heads that are mountains that are “Kings†who have “Fallenâ€Â, - Five ex “World Great Powersâ€Â: France; Italy; Germany; Japan; and England. One head that is a mountain that is a “King†that is, - One current “World Great Power†: The United States. One head that is a mountain that is a “King†that has not yet come, - One that has never been a “World Great Powerâ€Â: Canada. One head recovered from a mortal wound, - First split into Four occupation zones, then into two countries, now re-united : Germany. The Beast which was and is not that is an eighth that belongs to the seven, - These days there are eight members of the G7. There are only seven full fledged members that have voting privileges; but there is also an eighth member that has what they call “Observer Statusâ€Â, in that they are allowed to attend the meetings, so they know what is going on; but they do not have a vote with which to influence the outcome of those meetings. Said eighth that “was and is notâ€Â: Russia, which as the U.S.S.R. was a mountain that was a “Kingâ€Â, (World Great Power); but Russia is no longer accounted as such.

Revelations 17 16-18 (Revised Standard Version)
“And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose†... “And the woman which you saw isthe great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.â€Â

Does your pet theory fit the facts AND the scriptures that well ? Remember :THE MOUNTAINS ARE KINGS and the beast hates the harlot and will destroy it by FIRE.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

At least I dont have to rewrite the entire bible so that I could turn a city into the world.
But since you say the beast is the USA,and you say you must flee from the beast.

Rev 12;14
And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle,that she might fly into the wilderness into her place,where she is nourished for a time,and times,and half a time,from the face of the serpent.

Looks like scripture is saying you have birth pains,Hope everything turns out for you in the wildernmess and good luck fleeing the face of the serpent.
ps
Write and let us know how you doing every now and then.

 

[Vic C.]

Well like they say, you can lead a horse to water; but you cannot make it drink. Jerusalem is a "Millstone" which shall be cast down into the sea. Yeah sure. And it is full of abominations, Uhhuh. And it shall be splits into 3 parts by the greatest earthquake since man has been on the earth, Oh so obviously right. Jerusalem could be split into 3 parts by a relatively minor earthquake, BUT North America ? Try again.

Have we considered that this is apocalyptic writing and an earthquake could mean something else other than what we, in the 21st. century, think it to mean? Just like words like clouds and waters.

It could mean a civil or religious uprising or a religious or civil revolution bigger than any other in history. It could cause the city to be divided into three distinct geographical areas with borders separating the Jews from the Muslims from the Christians.

Is the US a city on seven hills? Is the US responsible for the death of the prophets and martyrs? Was the US captured by the Babylonians and did they adopt the customs and rituals of the Babylonian religion? Do the religious leaders of the US wear scarlet and purple and are adorned in gold a precious stones?

What does the Bible say about the drinking of the cup of wrath consisting of fornication and abominations?

Isa 51:17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.

Which city was destroyed once before and had it's Temple destroyed, leaving not one stone upon another? Where was Jesus when He turned the tables in the Temple?

What about:

Isa 1:21
Jer 2:20
Jer 3:1
Jer 3:6
Jer 3:8
Ezek 16:15
Ezek 16:16
Ezek 16:35
Ezek 16:41
Ezek 23:19
Hosea 4:15

[attachment=0:3ehbj46f]seven-mounts.jpg[/attachment:3ehbj46f]

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Nice old map you got there Vic.C

 

[JHM]

I have posted what I believe to be true. If you read it and remain unconvinced that is your privilege. I have not seen anything remotely comparable in terms of the number of passages that would be fullfilled by the events I forsee. You have posted nothing except the odd passage and a misquote to support your views. That too is your privilege. When YOU find a coded message that includes "TAKE FOR, (TREMBLE), UNCIRCUMCISED USE" then come and tell me about it.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No need to look for any codes.Why look for codes when there is sound doctrin to read?
John 18;20
Jesus answerd him,I spake openly to the world;I ever taught in the synagogue,and in the temple,whither the jews always resort,and in secret have I said nothing.

Luke 21;21-23
Then let them which are in Judea flee to the mountains;and let them which are in the midst of it depart out out;and let not them that are in the countries enter therein.
For these be the days of vengeance,that all things which are written may be forfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child,and to them that give suck,in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land,and wrath upon this people.

When you do decide to leave ,you might not want to go to Judea.
From what Ive read thats the worst place to be when all is forfilled.

 

[JHM]

I wish I could. But the only way I could would be drive out to the coast, and stowaway on a ship. No passport no money. But you are wrong about many things. There is hidden wisdom in the Bible, 2 Esdras speaks of it; and Mark 4 21-25 also speaks of it saying :"Nothing is hid except to be made manifest; not is anything secret, except to come to light." Problem is you try to bring things "TO LIGHT" and you run into a stone wall of people who don't believe anything is hidden. I have also found the "Fallen Angels Code", which tells how they arrived, what they did here, and how they left. That one is huge. I have only cracked a small part of it but it runs for many pages.

 

[Sinthesis]

Well like they say, you can lead a horse to water; but you cannot make it drink. Jerusalem is a "Millstone" which shall be cast down into the sea. Yeah sure. And it is full of abominations, Uhhuh. And it shall be splits into 3 parts by the greatest earthquake since man has been on the earth, Oh so obviously right. Jerusalem could be split into 3 parts by a relatively minor earthquake, BUT North America ? Try again.

Did you know that the largest single unbroken slab of rock in the world is the "Canadian Shield" ? Did you know that is what protects North America from earthquakes generally ? Did you know that the tectonic plates are "Locked" on both coasts and that pressure is building up here for a major earthquake ?...

Followed by

... I am also aware that the Bible often speaks metaphorically. How else can a "head" be a mountain that is a king that has not yet come ? Similarly how else can a "head" be a mountain that is a king that has recovered from a mortal wound ?

Maybe you should look deeper into metaphors. As far as earthquakes go, consider Hebrews 12:26-29

And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, "YET ONCE MORE I WILL SHAKE NOT ONLY THE EARTH, BUT ALSO THE HEAVEN."
- This {expression,} "Yet once more," denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
- Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us show gratitude, by which we may offer to God an acceptable service with reverence and awe;
- for our God is a consuming fire.

 

[JHM]

Soon enough you will learn just how WRONG you are. Won't be any help to you then though. Have you ever considered that "the lake of fire" lies 20 miles beneath your feet ? Have you ever considered that "THE GREATEST EARTHQUAKE SINCE MAN HAS BEEN ON THE EARTH" is going to dump some people into that lake? Did you know that about 4 years ago the U.S. Supreme Court struck all the State and local laws against "SODOMY" ? Did you know that Canada has made "SAME S-E-X MARRIAGE" legal ?

Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; Genesis 19 24.

Snooze on.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

JHM
Ive been where you are and I know how worried someone can make thierself.Your worrying over nothing.Yes there will be an end but its not what you think.Im guessing you havnt looked into Israel very much in your studies to have come to your conclusions.Ive had the same problems ,but the more Ive studied,the more I came to realize I was worrying myself to death over nothing.Look at this verse and tell me who rejected the king of kings and worships thier own goverment.

Amos 5;25-27
Have ye offerd unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years,O house of Israel?But you have borne the tabernacle of your Moloch and Chium your images,the star of your God,which ye made to yourselves.Therefore will I cause you to go into captivity beyond Damascus,saith the Lord,whose name is the God of hosts.

It is said by the jews that an image was brought from the Lebanon city of Sidon in 700 bc.That image was an image of a star.When the jews went into captivity in Babylon,they no longer had the temple and they instituted the synagogue.They then made the star a symbol of thier religion and the star started showing up on the fronts of thier synagogues.Now they have made that star the symbol of thier kingdom and of thier goverment.

There is the morning star in the scripture and this is Jesus,there is also the son of the morning which is Lucifer,king of Babylon.Tell me which one do you believe to be the star of David?
#1-Rev 22;16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches.I am the root and offspring of David,and the bright and morning star.

Isaiah 14;12
How art thou fallen from heaven ,O Lucifer,son of the morning.how art thou cut down to the ground,which didst weaken the nations.

Rev 17;10-11
And there are seven kings;five are fallen,and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.
And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eighth,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.

The five kings that had fallen when John wrote this is.
#1-Egypt
#2-Assyrian
#3-Babylon
#4-Persia
#5-Macedonia
And the king that is when John wrote this was ,
#6-Rome
The king that would come and continue a short space who the people of Israel were gatherd under was,
#7-Great Britian
And the kingdom that was before 70 ad,and wasnt when John wrote this but has been once more since 1948 is the eighth and is of the seven.Meaning that the eighth had been governed by the seven.
#8-Israel
Now the jews who have rejected the King of kings have chosen thier own king to serve.He has the star of Moloch as his national image and you see whats going on here?
Your worrying over nothing.
Just sit back and watch the fire works.

 

[Sinthesis]

Soon enough you will learn just how WRONG you are. Won't be any help to you then though. Have you ever considered that "the lake of fire" lies 20 miles beneath your feet ? Have you ever considered that "THE GREATEST EARTHQUAKE SINCE MAN HAS BEEN ON THE EARTH" is going to dump some people into that lake? Did you know that about 4 years ago the U.S. Supreme Court struck all the State and local laws against "SODOMY" ? Did you know that Canada has made "SAME S-E-X MARRIAGE" legal ?

Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; Genesis 19 24.

Snooze on.

Gen 18:32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy [it] for ten's sake.

So you just find 10 righteous Americans and 10 righteous Canadians and then hold God to His Word. Problem solved.

 

[JHM]

@ Shiloughsfoal : Problem with that is Revelations refers to the "Latter Days"; and you are giving it an ancient interpretation. The "greatest earthquake since man has been on the earth" is a future event. Similarly the "Plague of hailstones weighing a talent" is another future event. Everything in Revelations is all "Latter Day". I don't know if you actually read what I wrote or not. I suspect you read part of it, and found it hopelessly in conflict with your beliefs and thus did not bother to finish it. It actually is in three parts. The third part goes a ways towards refuting your beliefs re Israel; but that part I can't post here because of the limitations on photo file size.

You see the original file was Word Perfect 9 which "Windopes" can't open, so I had to convert it to photo files, because Microsoft's word processing programs are USELESS. Win98SE can't open WINXP wordpad files, WinXP can't open Win98SE wordpad files etc. Each version of Windopes can open its own files but not the files of some other version. What you have to do is convert things to "Rich Texture" documents which any version of Windopes can open; BUT "Rich Texture" has very limited formatting capabilities; so I used Corel then converted it to photo files for my documents.

Also noticed that once again you are separating the "Mountain's" from the "Kings" as if they were separate entities. I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are correctly quoting whatever version of the Bible you use; but I have 7 different versions; and of the seven, five clearly state that the "Mountains" and the "Kings" are one and the same. These are : The Jerusalem Bible; The Revised Standard Version; The New Revised Standard Version; The Ryrie Study Bible (New American Standard Version); and The New International Version. The two which do not clearly state that the "Mountains" and the "Kings" are one and the same are : The King James Version; and the Darby Bible.

Both of the latter are very old translations, done at a time before the oldest extant copies of the original manuscripts had been found. Of the two, the Darby is the more accurate, and in one case in Genesis it is the most accurate translation of the 7.

@ Sinthesis : Nice try; but I doubt if that will work either. It says :

Revelations 18 4-5 (Revised Standard Version)
“Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, ‘Come out of her my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; for her sins are heaped as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.â€Â

And without meaning to brag I think I know more about those sins than most here.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Ok ,If you know what those sins are then let me quiz you.

Do you know what the temple of God is?

 

[JHM]

You may be referring to the "Temple On The Mount", or you may be referring to something else altogether peculiar to your own beliefs. I am not referring to failure to properly observe various religious proceedures. I am referring to being responsible for the deaths of litterally millions of people. And I know a lot more about the hows and whys of that than most people do.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What is the temple of God?

There is only one true answer.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Rev 18;4
And I heard another voice from heaven saying,Come out of her ,my people,that ye be not partakers of her sins,and that ye recieve not of her plagues.

The sins of Babylon as recorded in the book of Revelation.
Rev 14;9
And the third angel followed them,saying with a loud voice,If any man worship the beast and his image,and recieve his mark in his forehead,or in his hand.

The punishment for those sins.
Rev 14;10
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God,which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels,and in the presence of the Lamb.

The punishment carried out.
Rev 16;19
And the great city was devided into three parts,and the cities of the nations fell;and great Babylon came in remembrance before God,to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

 

[JHM]

My turn to ask questions : 1) Did you read ALL of what I posted ? 2) What is your point ?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You said.

"And without meaning to brag I think I know more about those sins than most here."

If you know more about those sins than most here,then what is the temple of God?