Scripture Studies Re Babylon

[Vic C.]

... You see the original file was Word Perfect 9 which "Windopes" can't open, so I had to convert it to photo files, because Microsoft's word processing programs are USELESS.

Try installing OpenOffice. It's free. The link to download is here:

http://www.oooforum.org/forum/viewtopic.phtml?t=21448

It also contains instructions on how to open .wpd files.

 

[Vic C.]

What is the temple of God?

There is only one true answer.

Shouldn't the question be, Who is the Temple of God?" ;)

 

[JHM]

I have no idea what YOU think the "Temple of God" is. But then I wouldn't in a million years have ever thought that Jerusalem was Babylon. You have some rather twisted beliefs. You also don't answer questions you just ask questions; and questions that are without any clear answer. Rather pointless continuing. To me the "Temple of God would be twofold.

!) The Temple on the Mount.
2) The Temple described in Revelations 15 from which God rules the Universe.

Re the sins of Babylon : You've got it wrong again. The sins you quote are global, not just "Babylon's" It doesn't matter where you live, commit those sins and you are toast.

Babylon's sins are specificly Murder.

See Revelations 17 : 6 (Jerusalem Bible)
Revelations 17 : 6 "I saw that she was drunk, drunk with the blood of the saints, and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus".

 

[JHM]

@ Vic C. : Yeah, Haven't tried that one; and I suppose it is worth the effort to try; but I would point out that "MS" Office can also open Corel Word Perfect files; but in so doing it DESTROYS the formatting. -- Like I said USELESS !! Corel also allows you to save the file as many different types, (50 or so), But again, the ones I have tried DESTROY the formatting. --- Sigh, that's why I used photo files for my 130 page "Scripture Studies" doc.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

What is the temple of God?

There is only one true answer.

Shouldn't the question be, Who is the Temple of God?" ;)

If I were a betting man Id say someone is in you.


Daniel 12;4
But thou ,O Daniel,shut up the words,and seal the book,even to the time of the end;many shall run to and fro,and knowledge shall be increased.

I can understand why 98% of those in Judea dont compare this book to the book of revelation since they deny Christ and wont have anything to do with the new testament .But why do you suppose so many people who read the book of revelation and the book of Daniel dont see the connections between the two?I mean here in Daniel 12;7 you read of the holy people being scatterd for a time,times, and a half where in rev 12;14 you read of the woman fleeing the face of the beast for a time,and times,and a half.Why do you suppose things such as these gets overlooked?

If people only took the time to compare these two books,they might see a sign screaming Jerusalem.Just not many running to and fro for some reason.

 

[JHM]

Then lets hear your interpretation of the story of the Ram in Daniel Chapter 8. By the way you may have missed an edit in my last post to you.

 

[jtb]

This is a fun thread.

JHM, are you of Jewish lineage?

 

[Sinthesis]

This is a fun thread.

As a partial preterist, I find the thread an intellectual indulgence. ;)

 

[JHM]

@ JTB No but I wish I was. I have found indicatations that they are litterally the children of God. I have also found "The Fallen Angels Code" which indicates that a lot of people are children of Satan. The number of people who are descendands of Adam whose lineage is not corrupted by inbreeding with the children of Satan is probably quite small.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Then lets hear your interpretation of the story of the Ram in Daniel Chapter 8. By the way you may have missed an edit in my last post to you.

Dan 8;8
Therefore the he goat waxed very great;and when he was strong,the great horn was broken;and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
The first king from the west was Macedinia,
The four that stood up for it that was not in hie power were Roman,Byzantine,Ottoman and Great Britian

Daniel 8;9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,which waxed exeedingly great,toward the south,and toward the east,and toward the pleasant land.

And out of Europe came the jews fleeing anti semitism to form a kingdom that would break out of the empire called Great Brittian.Israel declared indepedance one day before the termination of the Brittish mandate of Palestine

Daniel 7;24-27
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise;and another shall rise after them.and he shall be diverse from the first,and he shall subdue three kings.
And he shall speak great words against the most High,and shall wear out the saints of the most High,and think to change times and laws;and they shall be given into his hand untill a time and times and the deviding of time.But the judgement shall sit,and they shall take away his dominion,to cunsume and to destroy it unto the end.
And the kingdom and dominion,and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven,shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High,whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

What this means is the forth beast (the devided empire), of Daniel's vision,that dwells in the middle east is made up of ten horns (Independant muslim states)and a little horn
(Israel).It is Israel who is diverse from the first and who in 1967's 6 day war defeated three of those ten.It is into Israel's hand that the 144,000 saints are givenfor the space of 3 1/2 years.They will not have gone over all the cities of Judea till Jesus is come.It is Israel's goverment who dominion shall be taken away and given to the people of the saints of the most High, The promised land .

"The Jews, I find are very, very selfish," Truman wrote in a 1947 diary entry. "They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment. Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog. Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I've found very, very few who remember their past condition when prosperity comes."

One only needs read the gospel to find out just how cruel those of Judaism will be to those saints,the remnant of the womans seed for those 3 1/2 years.
Rev 12;17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman,and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,which keep the comandments of God,and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[JHM]

@ Shiloghsfoal : You have done it again. I asked you if you had read what I posted in its entirety, - No answer. I ask you for your interpretation of the story of the RAM in Daniel Chapter 8 and again no answer, - instead you don't even mention the RAM and start talking about the HE-GOAT. If you can't fit the RAM in, your interpretation is WRONG. And while you are at it, be sure and come up with an explanation for why the "HE-Goat's feet did not touch the ground" when it charged the RAM and attacked it; - or again your interpretation is WRONG.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You dont know who Alexander the great fought against?
I thought everyone knew about Alexander. :gah

I just skipped the easy parts and went straight for the good stuff.

 

[JHM]

No answer again huh ? Yeah sure "Alexander the Great" uhhuh. But what about Daniel 8 : 17 (Revised Standard Version) ... "Understand , O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end." Are you suggesting that "Alexander The Great" will be re-incarnated in time to play a role in future events ? Wise Up why don't you. Your interpretations are hopelessly twisted.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

By the time you get down to Dan 8;17,you have went through about 2300 years of history.
At the present time Im waiting for the raiser of taxes to pass.Then Ill watch for the host to be sent to Israel.The host mentioned in
Dan 8;12
And a host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,and it cast down the truth to the ground;and it practiced and prosperd.

This same host is mentioned in
Dan 11;31
And arms shall stand on his part,and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength and shall take away the daily sacrofice,and they shall place the abomination of desolation.

Like I said though,Im waiting for Dan 11;20 to be forfilled.

 

[JHM]

Well I'd venture to say you are wrong. The vision, (ALL OF IT), is for the time of the end. And you still haven't said anything about the RAM. There actually is a very simple interpretation for the vision that applies to "the time of the end", you know.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Well I wouldnt expect you to know.
Any man that doesnt know what the temple of God is cant know much .

If you want to flee in fear,then go ahead.Be gone with you.
But you cant cause me to fear with your greatest imaginations.

Im more intereted in todays events than a dead ram .
Dan 8;20
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

My guess it you fear Iran, thinking they are going to destroy the USA.

 

[Vic C.]

The ram had two horns, one larger than the other. The larger horn was Persia. The ram typically represents Persia, in the Bible and throughout Biblical history. The Medo-Persian empire only rules for a short time before the Hellenistic Greeks overtake them.

I'm trying to understand the future application of the opening verses of Daniel 8 when it seems to point to events in history that, for the most part, have already taken place since the author penned it.

 

[Vic C.]

... Like I said though,Im waiting for Dan 11;20 to be forfilled.

It seems this person existed. He was the son of Antiochus, Seleucus Philopate.

Adam Clarke wrote this in his commentaries:

Verse 20. Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes
Seleucus Philopater succeeded his father Antiochus. He sent his treasurer Heliodorus to seize the money deposited in the temple of Jerusalem, which is here called the glory of the kingdom, see 2Macc 9:23. He was so cramped to pay the annual tax to the Romans, that he was obliged to burden his subjects with continual taxes.

He shall be destroyed, neither in anger-fighting against an enemy, nor in battle-at the head of his troops; but basely and treacherously, by the hand of Heliodorus his treasurer, who hoped to reign in his stead.

http://www.studylight.org/com/acc/view. ... hapter=011

Wesley wrote this:

Verse 20

[20] Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle.

A raiser of taxes  Seleucus Philopator, who peeled his subjects, and spared not to rob the temple.

Within few days  For he lived not out the third part of his father's reign.

Not in battle  Not by open force, but by poison.

http://www.christnotes.org/commentary.p ... &b=27&c=11

It seems the farther we get from Biblical history, the more we forget it existed. Hmm, I though knowledge was to increase? ;) ;)

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Vic C It seems the farther we get from Biblical history, the more we forget it existed. Hmm, I though knowledge was to increase? ;)


I increase knowledge running to and from through the scriptures.
Comparing scripture against scripture Ive found that the book of Daniel and the book of Revelation often speak of the same events though they may be called by different names.
Through my studies Ive learned such things as the abomination of desolation is the mark of the beast.This is the sin of Babylon and the reason people are instructed to flee from Judea.Just as Jesus said to flee Judea in the gospel and in the book of rev it is called Babylon the great.The reason I asked what is the temple of God,I thought someone might know that the temple of God is the human body as we know God does not dwell in temples made with hands.The abomination of desolation is placed in the human body-the mark.
The point is that it is openly said that this abomination will take place in Judea.It is never said to take place anywhere else.Jesus speaking of the day of judgement upbraided the cities of Israel saying it would be more tolerably for Sodom than those cities.Jesus even said it would be more tolerable for cities in Lebanon than for those Israeli cities because of thier disbelief.Even these cities in Lebanon and Israel are called by name in the gospel.Obviously something takes place in Israel that will not take place in Lebanon and that something is the abomination.

As for the raiser of taxes,watch what happens to Obama.Ive been watching this chapter for ten years and its not that I had a great interest in Obama but moreso who would sit in his estate once he is gone.

 

[Vic C.]

Not a problem. My studies have led me to led me to explore Biblical history. I guess I am drifting from the roots of my futuristic End Times view and relying a bit more on what has transpired. As the Reformer and Historicist said, Most prophecy is history pre-written. ;)

Just a friendly question; do you dismiss the historical accounts I quoted above and if so, why?

Oh, as you probably guessed, I knew the body is the Temple and that there is little need for a future, physical Temple.

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Peace,
Vic