Senate tackles gay marriage ban

[gingercat]

True but actions speack louder I say. I am loving to my fellow person, yes I screw up and can be rude and make wrong decisions but that's life. I know I am a good practacing christian who just wants a united faith, there is too much division in the church. Anyway I am tired now, it is 12:30 AM here in england and I need to relax, so I'm going to watch a good film then bed.

God bless and good night.

All I can do is sigh. : My family and I will pray for you, Richard.

 

[RichardE40K]

(ignore, double post)

 

[RichardE40K]

I just had to reply before I turned of. You do not need to pray for me. (Even though I am very humbled that someone would have me in thier prayres, I give my thanks) Even if, and this is the big if. I am not christian, I still do good in the world. And help people, I truely think a lot of christians cant say they do aswell, I'm not saying you cant, I'm just saying in general, its all good and well to follow the bible, word for word, but that doesnt help anyone.

Oh and I still think I'm christian, my priest has blessed me many times and said I am a good follower of jesus, and he is a very good man himself.

 

[peace4all]

Lewis, It goes to show how many of my posts you have read. I have already stated on this topic (the part you quoted) that I am not a Christian.
Hopefully, this is just something you missed.

Yes, the bible says that I won't listen to your teachings, However, it also says to accept me.

I think what richard was talking about, was the part about homosexuals dieing/being murdered, that you stated. He does not believe that is the word of god (although it says it in the OT, and I believe somewhere in romans? not sure) because he believes God would not want you to be a murderer, and kill people (as the commandments state)

It all depends which parts of the bible you weigh more than the others. If you believe in all parts equally, you are going to have a pickle on the parts that cotnradict eachother (or you have to nullify the OT and tons of other sections)

Some people refuse to nullify certain parts of the bible, and let other parts be the accepted parts. You may not eat seafood, because the OT says you shouldn't, or you may say that it was made innefective for anyone that is not living in israel.

The bible is all up to interpretation, because it has been changed, and interpreted, BY MAN, thousands of times over. Parts are taken out or added in based on what some peoples opinions are.

To love all humans, and to strive to follow as close as you can to Jesus, Is more christian than Putting a Book, Above god.

 

[SputnikBoy]

I just had to reply before I turned of. You do not need to pray for me. (Even though I am very humbled that someone would have me in thier prayres, I give my thanks) Even if, and this is the big if. I am not christian, I still do good in the world. And help people, I truely think a lot of christians cant say they do aswell, I'm not saying you cant, I'm just saying in general, its all good and well to follow the bible, word for word, but that doesnt help anyone.

Oh and I still think I'm christian, my priest has blessed me many times and said I am a good follower of jesus, and he is a very good man himself.

Richard, you're witnessing some very disturbing behavior going on here and I suggest that you regard it with the contempt that it deserves ...in other words, IGNORE IT! This is what happens when people become so choked in a belief system that they are incapable of seeing anything beyond that. People can be manipulated and not even realize that they're being manipulated. Some on this forum believe that manipulation to be of God. I don't believe that it is. The Nazi regime springs to mind when I see the comments and the viewpoints of some on this thread who have banded together in supposed common belief in order to put you down. The Bible has become their Mein Kampf. They (FIRMLY) believe that by oft quoting the scriptures, this in and of itself makes them pure and holy ...and Christian.

I am no less, nor more, a Christian than others are on this forum and none of them are going to make me feel small. It just won't happen and I can hold my own against any of them. Don't allow them to make you feel small either, Richard. Don't even attempt to justify your Christianity to others. You REALLY are not required to do so in order to pass muster. God knows your heart and I'm sure that He appreciates you for who you are. By ALL means question the Bible, question God, question Jesus, question the attitudes of Christians on forums such as this. In the end you'll arrive at whatever truths you arrive at through your own research without the possibility of having been brainwashed.

There is little or no love being expressed from these so-called Christians, Richard, and they make me feel ashamed for them. They have made the Bible a weapon as opposed to a book of instruction and love for their fellow man. I apologize for a statement I made a few posts back. I said that everyone is not the same as everyone else but that everyone is a treasure of God anyway. I take that back. When mob rule takes over everyone becomes a clone of the other. People simply turn off their minds and become as one. And, whoever isn't a part of the 'ruling party' is considered the enemy. This is how lynching parties are formed. And, this is simple psychology at work. Jesus becomes the farthest thing from one's mind when this occurs.

 

[RichardE40K]

Thank you my friend. I shall sleep easy now. Lord knows I am tired.

 

[thessalonian]

Sputty,

Your not very loving or tolerant of our views it seems. You demonize us. :

 

[Lewis]

peace4all I had forgot that you are not Christian. So that means you have not the Holy Ghost, and that means what we say to you is foolishness. I really don't expect you to understand. For how could you.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Sputty,

Your not very loving or tolerant of our views it seems. You demonize us. :

'Us'? You mean 'the mob'? 'Us'? You mean the 'real' Christians on this forum? 'Us'? You mean those who throw stones at others? 'Us'? You mean those who are demonizing Richard? 'Us'? You mean those who are on the same wave-length as Lewis? Oh my.

You have it backward, my friend.

Again ...I don't CARE to tell others who they should and who they should not be attracted to or who or which gender they should love. It's none of my - nor your - business, thess. I just don't care, period ...savvy? This particular topic is not usually an issue to me except when I see fellow human beings being hounded by Christians.

You don't have to participate in anything you don't want to participate in so why get yourself worked up over this? Poor gingercat is all but having kittens (pardon the pun) over this issue. And, PLEASE, don't insult my intelligence by telling me that it's JESUS - and not homophobia - that is dictating your feelings on this topic. I'm sure you have all kinds of your own problems to deal with - I know I do - without losing sleep on who your neighbor is attracted to. Why not concentrate on sorting them out?

Incidentally, I wonder how many homosexual converts have resulted (have become 'straight') from the hissing and the spitting of the saints on this thread? If the hissing and the spitting method works then, by all means, continue to do it. If it doesn't then try another tack such as acceptance. Or, if acceptance goes against one's homophobic grain, try to grit one's teeth and 'tolerate' the gender orientation of others. Let God do His job and let Him be the judge of us all. It's pretty simple.

 

[gingercat]

Rod,

Are you sevant of Jesus?

Have you changed your life according to Jesus teachings since you became Christian?

Do you know if we are His followers our lives no longer belong to ourselves?

Do you know that Jesus tells us to be holy as He is holy?

Do you know that there are many Christians in persecuted countries who are risking their lives and their families to reach out to the lost ones for the Lord?

Did you read my thread "love your enemy"?

It seems that your concept of love is all screwed up, my friend.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Rod,

Are you sevant of Jesus?

Have you changed your life according to Jesus teachings since you became Christian?

Do you know if we are His followers our lives no longer belong to ourselves?

Do you know that Jesus tells us to be holy as He is holy?

Do you know that there are many Christians in persecuted countries who are risking their lives and their families to reach out to the lost ones for the Lord?

Did you read my thread "love your enemy"?

It seems that your concept of love is all screwed up, my friend.

Hitomi, you know that I'm your friend and that you are mine. Our differences in regard to this topic should not change that as long as we remain adult about it. But don't you realize that it is NOT your job to interrogate someone else - such as you regularly do - in regard to whether or not they pass muster on YOUR concept of Christianity?

Nor - until you attain your own halo - will you be preaching to me about what love is and what love is not based on YOUR concept of love. You have a dislike for the 'phony-ness' of the average mainstream Christian and you've expressed this view many times previously. You've also stated that you would actually disown a member of your own family if they should ever confess to you that they are 'gay'.

Because you're SO obsessed with the Bible you allow this to rule your brain to the point where you're blind to REAL situations and REAL problems and REAL struggles that others may be having. Furthermore, you expect the Bible to rule the brains of any other REAL (your concept again) Christian. You look down from your pedestal and see the bad in everyone else to the exclusion of yourself. But, hitomi, you're in good company. So do others.

Let me scream this out yet again if only to hear my head rattle. I HAVE NO PROBLEM 'PERSONALLY' WITH WHATEVER GENDER ONE IS ATTRACTED TO! IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS! I DON'T CARE WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS IF THE PROMOTING OF HATRED OR DISCRIMINATION TOWARD OTHERS IS THE END RESULT!

There, I'd still like that cup of coffee and a chat with you sometime. Maybe we'd need to bring the boxing gloves along too! :smt062

 

[AHIMSA]

What I don't really understand is the need of so many Christians to see the Bible as though every word of it was literally meant by God himself. Clearly the scriptures are in contradiction, for we have so many interpretations of it, so many sects and denominations, and everyone has scripture to back themselves up. The bible is not nearly as clear as each of these different denominations makes it sound to be. Perhaps where God is speaking in his word is not so much in the literal sayings or letters, but rather, the meaning or intention behind those words, which transcends the time frame and mentality of its authors. To be true interpreters of the bible I think we need to really learn to analyze it, at times criticise it, use our own experiences and wisdom, learn its history and the time frame and attitudes of its writers. Only when this is done do I believe its real message becomse clear. When we look at it in terms of "what Paul wrote in this chapter, or what Isaiah says in this chapter is exactly how God intended it to be" it seems that we often get tangled up in the mentality and attitudes that prevailed in its time, and we often forfeit our own minds for the sake of turning the bible into a question and answer book from God, rather than a complex work that points to an experience of God.

Its certainly your decision as to whether or not the meaning of scripture is as plain as literalism makes it out to be, but I think Christians who look at scripture differently are equally so in Christ, for remember, Jesus himself rarely said things exactly as he meant them, which is also the beauty of his ministry, it constantly leaves us pondering and seeing things differently. He used his words to startle us, to shake up our world view, and to open our minds to different ways of seeing and percieving.

In regards to homosexuality, I truly and honestly believe if Jesus lived today he would be in contrast to most Christians on this issue. Jesus was a Jew, yes, and he followed the law. Yet the radical thing about him was that, when the law began to divide people into sinner and saved, when the law began to push people into different classes and interfere with the wholeness that he hoped to see in human relationships, he gave it a different interpretation than its literal meaning. He healed on the sabbath, even though the scriptures record God striking men down for doing work on that day, he didn't fast, he declared that food does not make one impure, and in the Sermon on the Mount, he gets to the heart, the message of the law, rather than dogmatically asserting what the ancient texts reported word for word, as the Pharisees did.

When confronted about breaking the holy laws surrounding the sabbath, Jesus reported "Man was not made for the sabbath, but the sabbath for man." In other words, when we allow these holy laws to get in the way of doing what God really desires (nurturing wholeness in the human spirit) then we have overlooked the true purpose of those laws. In the same way, man was not made for sex, but sex was made for humankind. We do so much harm to the homosexual community in the name of our ideal of purity and holiness, we get so concerned with what scripture literally says than what its underlying heart is, that we can not even see the divisions, the lines that we are drawing. We have become the Pharisees, and it was to them alone that Jesus saved his wrath, for the one thing that truly irked him was not sin but hypocrasy.

 

[SputnikBoy]

A good post, AHIMSA ...thanks. Both gingercat and I (and others) could take a lesson from you in the art of 'tranquility in presentation' ...

 

[Rick W]

What God wants is two to become one flesh which reflects the union we have with the Savior as believers.

Sex yes, but within the confines of a commitment in marriage which naturally leads to the rearing of children within a family unit where the child gets input from both genders to prepare him/her for their adulthood and relationship to one of the opposite sex so they too may have a family blessed by God.
The groom and bride are used extensively in the NT to describe the relationship between the believer and Christ again giving us an idea of how God would have us live.
And if everything must be detailed in the bible for us to know right from wrong then pedophilia is ok since there is no direct mention of the behavior in scripture other than sexual immorality and fornication. Yet today we know that practice is wrong. But that too will change under the name of choice and consent. I can consent with another all day long but that doesn't make my choice righteous. Nor does how I feel about something mean the parameters are rightly set for the choices I make.


But, not to worry. Our kids are being taught sexual preference at an early age and won't object to much of anything no matter what the preference may be. Kids are very imprerssionable and I seriously doubt there will be much distinction in their minds as to which preferences are good or bad but that any preference is up to the one/s making the choice and should be tolerated.
Six years from now the 12 year olds getting this "education" today will be eligible to vote. Right now as it is the ballot box is feared by the pro-gay marriage groups for they know what the outcome will be. Give it 6 to 10 years and the ballot box will no longer be feared as it is today.
Should be an interesting 20 years ahead. "Interesting" may be the wrong word. Tolerance and normalization won't stop just because the practice of homosexuality is socially accepted. We have other things to look forward to as well. That's progress.

Sexual anarchy is not what God intended but is the intention of man. Scripture won't change but society will thereby widening the chasm between His Word and the world of men. It's not hard to imagine His Word being outlawed in the future or at least forbidden by law to be preached as written.

 

[RichardE40K]

The education kids get now is quite out straight. When I was 15 we were all taught about gay couples and lesbian relationships. And they taught us it was completely natural and not to be fouled upon. But neither was it to be played around with, as to say only done if you're feelings were true.

I have always given marriage a very bad look, you see all the people in my family have been married and have their original partners now, or are widowed. Except for me and my mum. My father was violent so my mum refused to let him in my life before I was born, and it has remained that way, my mum never married and my father has never set eyes onto me I like it that way. Now I'm 21 I can look at the whole situation and say, marriage does not work for quite a lot of people. That is evident in the fact that more and more British people are not getting married in a church due to their Un faith and we have a huge divorce rate. the family unit in England is a rare thing, my family was very lucky to stick with very old values, except my mother of coerce. I mean there are thousands of kids on the streets and in orphanages in the British isles. That is why I will adopt, and I also know of a gay couple who have adopted themselves, no the child is not brainwashed, neither are they bad to society. They are actually just glad they have two people to care for them now. (that’s not to say the gay couples are all happy either, some have already started getting divorced!) I’ve always based my decisions on children as I love kids, they are the most important thing in the world as I see. And maybe I will marry, I hope I do. But maybe I wont, does it really matter? Isn’t love for you’re partner the most important thing? Because many of the marriages I see are full of hate and it goes straight to the kids. I don’t know. I see lots of pregnant teenagers and divorced people nowadays and I ask what went wrong? Violence? No faith? Intolerance?

And I quite agree with you, just because homosexuality and gay marriage is now legal over here in England has not made the country much better. We still have many problems, with racist thugs running around beating up Muslims or anyone who is not white or black. Then we have the queer bashers. Then we have huge religious division, Muslims are generally getting bad press due to all the problems. And its very sad that the world will never be a fully tolerant place. Even I am not tolerant sometimes. I suppose it proves the point that nothing is perfect in the world and there is no easy route in life.

Just my toughts.

 

[peace4all]

good post Ahisma.. Hopefully since it comes from someone who isn't "Foolish" it can be listened to.

Yes, the bible says I won't understand your words, But it also tells you to kill me. (or tells the followers of god to kill non believers) so.. (stands and waits...) Which is going to triumph. THou shalt not kill? or???? You throw one thing at me, but leave the rest alone. I work on teh sabbath (both of them depending regular or SDA denominations) so bash at me for that one too, Or, is that part ok to break?

lol

Potluck:
Are you saying that couples that are sterile should not be allowed sex? and that Sex, is ONLY meant to be used for child bearing (because i seem to recall places in the bible where women are used for more than just the conception of the baby)

 

[thessalonian]

Sputty,

Your not very loving or tolerant of our views it seems. You demonize us. :

'Us'? You mean 'the mob'? 'Us'? You mean the 'real' Christians on this forum? 'Us'? You mean those who throw stones at others? 'Us'? You mean those who are demonizing Richard? 'Us'? You mean those who are on the same wave-length as Lewis? Oh my.

You have it backward, my friend.

Again ...I don't CARE to tell others who they should and who they should not be attracted to or who or which gender they should love. It's none of my - nor your - business, thess. I just don't care, period ...savvy? This particular topic is not usually an issue to me except when I see fellow human beings being hounded by Christians.

You don't have to participate in anything you don't want to participate in so why get yourself worked up over this? Poor gingercat is all but having kittens (pardon the pun) over this issue. And, PLEASE, don't insult my intelligence by telling me that it's JESUS - and not homophobia - that is dictating your feelings on this topic. I'm sure you have all kinds of your own problems to deal with - I know I do - without losing sleep on who your neighbor is attracted to. Why not concentrate on sorting them out?

Incidentally, I wonder how many homosexual converts have resulted (have become 'straight') from the hissing and the spitting of the saints on this thread? If the hissing and the spitting method works then, by all means, continue to do it. If it doesn't then try another tack such as acceptance. Or, if acceptance goes against one's homophobic grain, try to grit one's teeth and 'tolerate' the gender orientation of others. Let God do His job and let Him be the judge of us all. It's pretty simple.

You seem to be awfully worried about telling us what we should and shouldn't do. You are even telling me things that I am not doing. As for the hissing and spitting method, it seems to be one that you like to employ in convincing us.

It is not love to let a man take a knife and hack off his arm. Neither is it love to stand by while a man violates the natural law. Homosexual behavior is a grave moral evil and it does no good to say otherwise or even be neutral, regardless of YOUR JUDGEMENT OF ME. It saddens me how far you have fallen in the last year.


You seem to lack an understanding of how God works. You see when I feed my children it is God feeding them. When I speak his truth it is God speaking truth (he who hears you hears me). When the corn grows in the feild and becomes cornflakes by the hands of many men who work at Kellog, it is God preparing my breakfast. God works through men Sputnik. He works through his creation.

God bless Sputnik.

 

[Lewis]

Good post Potluck, I know one thing, I am tired of arguing with these non Christians who have not the Spirit of God. And give us their SECULAR views about the Word of God. Their SECULAR views mean nothing to me. Just as our Biblical facts mean nothing to them. Why do they even come here day after day week after week and month after month. Trying to prove that the Word of God has holes in it. And which they can never ever prove. Yes they can have their opinion but coming here for no other reason than to see if they can find fault with the Word of God, has gotten very old. I understand that debates will come up every now and then, that is normal. But this is getting out of hand. If you don't like Christianity why do you keep coming here ? Because it is obvious that this board is doing you no good. So whats the point ? This post is only for those that it pertains to. I will say this in closing, this excessive putting down of Christianity will not be tolerated. Because some people thats all they come here to do.

 

[RichardE40K]

Right lewis, I come here to put down Christianity and its teachings. Yes that's what I'm doing, I'm a real anti-christ.

Yes so me promoting tolerance, understanding and unity with people withing the christian faith is bad, while attacking people over thier views and thinking you are holier then thou is good.

This logic is getting confusing.

 

[Lewis]

Right lewis, I come here to put down Christianity and its teachings. Yes that's what I'm doing, I'm a real anti-christ.

Yes so me promoting tolerance, understanding and unity with people withing the christian faith is bad, while attacking people over thier views and thinking you are holier then thou is good.

This logic is getting confusing.

You made a statement that God must wrong. Did you or did you not ? God can never ever be wrong. I said what I had to say. And I will not post in this topic again. And I still love you brother.