Seven Evidences of a First Century Parousia

[parousia70]

#1: Christ Returned in His Generationâ€â€the "Last Days" Generation

As most scholars, Church leaders, and even skeptics down the centuries have affirmed, Jesus Christ promised his early apostles that they would be the ones to witness the last days events as well as His return in their generation (Matt 24:33-34; Matt 23:36). We that are citizens of the Kingdom of God hardly need mention that the Lord of Heaven and Earth always keeps his promises. Therefore, the assertion that Jesus honored his promise to return in the lifetimes of his apostles (Matt 10:22-23; Matt 16:27-28; John 21:21-22) should come as a surprise to no oneâ€â€the apostles, along with their Master, all taught and prophesied that they were the last days generation (Heb 1:1-2; James 5:3; 1 Cor 10:11; Acts 2:15-17; 1 Peter 1:20; Heb 9:26; Matt 16:3).

#2: Christ's Return was a "Day-of-the-Lord"

Christ's coming was a "Day of the Lord" (i.e. Day of Yahweh). This day of God's judgments is also known by the phrase "Day of the Lord's Vengeance" (see Jer 46:10; Isa 61:2; Luke 21:22). Jesus confirms for us that AD 67-70 was the day of the Lord's vengeance (compare Luke 21:20-22 to Isa 61:2/Jer 46:10). Biblically speaking, such periods of the Lord's vengeance are times of disasters and wars waged upon nations and individuals in real history by Yahweh, and AD 67-70 was the greatest day of the Lord in Israel's historyâ€â€it was Israel's Great Tribulation. Undoubtedly, it was this day-of-the-Lord event that the first-century apostles and saints believed they would live to see in their lifetimes (1 Cor 1:7-8; Phil 1:10, 1:6; Heb 10:25; 1 Thess 5:23); they all spoke of this day of the Lord mere decades before it transpired. Jesus had told the rulers of Israel that he would come again to them as the "Lord of the Vineyard" and would be "The Stone" that would grind them to powder (Matthew 21:40-45)â€â€they understood that he spake this of them (Matthew 21:45). Before that great and terrible day arrived, God sent a messenger to prepare the way before Himâ€â€a messenger that came in the spirit and power of Elijah to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the children to the fathers (Mal 3:1-5, 4:4-5; Luke 1:13-17; Matt 11:9-14). Jesus attested that this messenger was, indeed, Elijah that was to come before the "great and terrible day of the Lord" (Matt 17:10-13; Mal 4:4-5). Malachi did not speak of a mere great prophet, but of someone even greaterâ€â€the herald of God Almighty Himself. As Jesus said:

What did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. For this is he of whom it is written, 'Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, who will prepare Your way before You.' Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist...he is Elijah who is to come (Matt 11:9-11,14).

#3: Christ Came Upon First-Century Sardis "as a Thief in the Night"

Everyone knows about Christ's teaching that he would come as a "thief in the night" (Jesus gives this teaching in Matthew 24:43). That coming came upon the first-century Church of Sardis in Revelation 3:1-3. It is clear that Christ's coming as a thief to the Church of Sardis was to violently remove many of them from the Church while vindicating the worthy ones there (Rev 3:1-5). This same thief-in-the-night coming was also promised to come upon the enemies of the Thessalonians; yet it would not violently overtake the Thessalonians themselves (1 Thess 5:2-9). For the early Thessalonian Church, the Day of the Lord brought about the much-expected glorification of Christ in His Church (2 Thess 1:10), the cessation of their contemporary persecution (2 Thess 1:6-7), and the continuation of their lampstand (presumably, from Rev 2:5). To the Church at Thyatira, Christ's coming meant the destruction of their false prophetess, "Jezebel," and her followers that were teaching against the decree of the Jerusalem council (compare Rev 2:20-21 to Acts 15:28-29). While Jesus promised them that these all would be killed or thrown into great tribulation, the faithful ones at Thyatira were to simply hold fast to what they had until Christ came to them to grant participation in his reign (Rev 2:24-25). For Pergamum, the coming of Christ primarily removed the Nicolaitans from destroying the Church ( Rev 2;14-16). All this, of course, necessarily places Christ's coming in the first century.

#4: Christ Came "In His Kingdom"

The nature of Christ's Parousia (lit. "presence") is confirmed by a comparison of Matt 16:27-28 and Luke 17:20. Jesus taught openly in Matt 16:27-28 that His coming was going to be "in His Kingdom." Jesus also states in Luke 17:20-21 that the coming of His Kingdom was going to be unobservable. Therefore, if the coming of the Kingdom was going to be unobservable, then it follows that the coming of the King in that Kingdom was also going to be unobservable. As Jesus said: "my kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight" (John 18:36). The Kingdom, of course, was establshed right on time (Mark 1:14-15), and Christ shortly stripped it away from his usurping enemies by his divine decree at AD 67-70 (Matt 21:43-45; Luke 19:43-44; Matt 22:6-7; Luke 21:20-22).

#5: Christ Came "in the Glory of the Father"

The coming of Jesus was to be "in the glory of the Father" (Matthew 16:27)  i.e., Christ's return was a coming in power and glory as Father Yahweh had come in great power and glory to Israel and other nations in Old Testament times. Yahweh was famous for his cloud-comings and apocalyptic comings down to earth (see: Isaiah 19:1-2; 2 Sam 22:10-14; Deut 33:2; Neh 9:13; Hab 3:3-16; Isa 31:3-8; Psalm 97:2-5; Ezek 30:3; Ps 104:3; Nah 1:3; Ex 34:5; Judges 5:4-7; Jer 4:13; Zeph 1:14-15; Psalm 68:32-35; Isa 31). So also did Christ return as Yahweh had done many times before. Our Lord returned in that generation for the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in AD 67-70 (Matt 24:33-34; Luke 21:20-22; Matt 21:40-45). Christ was exalted after his resurrection to his former glory He had with Yahweh before the world ever began (John 17:5), and his promised return to the nation came in the power and glory of Yahweh.

#6: Christ Came "with Clouds" (Rev 14:14-20)

Coming and going "with clouds" is a consistent biblical theme for the comings and goings of divine beings and saints (see: Dan 7:13; Rev 11:12; Isa 19:1-2; 2 Sam 22:10-14; Ps 104:3). In scripture, "clouds" often signifies magnificent judgment and doom (Ez 30:3; Nah 1:3-5). We have a clear example of this from Revelation 14:14-20 where Christ is depicted in a "cloud-coming," one that is firmly transacted from the realm of the heavenlies. In the passage, Christ is depicted as Yahweh, the mighty ruler and judge over Heaven and Earth who decrees great judgments along with the mighty angels (Ps 22:28/Matt 28:18/Ps 68:17). Stationed and enthroned in the heavenlies, Christ is seen causing calamities upon the earth by his coming (Rev 14:20). This is how the jews understood Yahweh to come in Old Testament times. The apostle John is, therefore, depicting Christ as equal to Yahweh in executing punishments upon apostate Israel as Yahweh had done before him. Revelation 14:14-20 thus shows us what a "cloud-coming" means as well as its precise spiritual and potent nature.

#7: Christ Declared: "The World Sees Me No More"

Jesus plainly stated in John 14:19 and 17:11 that this world would see him no more. How long is "no more"? We maintain that "no more" means "no more." Jesus goes on in that John 14 passage to explain that He was to be seen on earth thereafter in and through his universal Body, the Church (John 14:19-23, 17:20-23â€â€compare also to Eph 1:22-23; Eph 5:30-32; 1 Cor 12:27; Rom 12:5). The true temple, listed as the body of Jesus Christ in John 2:19-22, is now also the eternal Church-Temple, one of the great mysteries of the Faith (Eph 5:30-32; 2 Cor 6:16). We can't explain mysteries in totality, we can only affirm them. Indeed God is here now and walks among His people forever (2 Cor 6:16). He walks among us as the Lord of all heaven and earth, the Prince of the kings of the earth (Matt 28:18; Rev 1:5).

 

[Matthew24:34]

Great job, Parousia70. 2

 

[Osgiliath]

Parousia70, I dub thee Exaybachay (He Who Talks Loud, Saying Nothing). When I have some time off work on the weekend I’m going to totally eviscerate this bastardizing of Scripture you have posted for your sole purpose of furthering a false teaching. I shouldn’t have to do this, because there is only one reference I need mention to collapse your entire house of cards. But you FP’s are so pugnacious I’m going to give it the full treatment. For the rest of us who actually "think", here is all that is needed to disprove this garbage (the first of many):

Parousia70 said:
Jesus attested that this messenger was, indeed, Elijah that was to come before the "great and terrible day of the Lord" (Matt 17:10-13; Mal 4:4-5).

Was John the Baptist “indeed†Elijah?

Luke 1:17, "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Malachi prophesied that the Messiah would be introduced by Elijah.

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Malachi 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And introduce Jesus he did:

Matthew 3:11, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

Here is Matthew's testimony regarding the identity of John the Baptist:

Matthew 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

And here is some interesting dialogue between John the Baptist and representatives of the Pharisees that takes place in John 1:

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
John 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Note: Notice how the Pharisees differentiated between Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6 and the Messenger of Malachi 3:1 as seen in verses 21 and 25 in John above. Nothing too significant, but worth noting.

When asked about the identity of John the Baptist, here's what Jesus said about him:

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Matthew 11:14 "and if you are willing to accept it", he is Elijah who is to come.

Later, however, we see a shift in the presentation of the identity of John the Baptist:

Matthew 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matthew 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Matthew 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus sums it up here:

Matthew 21:32 "For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him."

"If" the Jews had received Jesus as the Messiah, then John the Baptist would have fulfilled the role of the prophet of Malachi 3:1 and Malachi 4:5-6. However, since the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, then John the Baptist did not fulfill the stated role of Elijah. In other words, John the Baptist could have been Elijah, but wasn't because of the rejection of Jesus as Messiah. Also if you recall, Isaiah had prophesied that they would reject the Messiah in his first advent (Isaiah 53).

Matthew 11:14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

"John is the Elijah who is to come, IF you are will to accept the message". Of course, the message was not accepted, Jesus Christ was crucified, and the Kingdom was rejected, so John was not regarded as "the" Elijah who "is" to come before that great and dreadful day of the Lord. If they would have accepted Christ as Messiah, then the Kingdom would have been ushered in at that time (Matthew 22:1-8), and John the Baptist would have been regarded as Elijah (Matthew 11:14). In other words, Elijah must come before “the day of the Lordâ€Â, when Jesus comes as King of Kings (plural) and Lord of Lords, and the day of vengeance of our God (Isaiah 61:2, Revelation 19:16), not the “day†when Christ came as the Lamb of God, was rejected and crucified, and offered salvation and grace to humanity (Isaiah 61:1). This is why Jesus only read half of the prophecy from Isaiah 61:1-2 when he read from the scroll in Luke 4:18-19.

Your hermeneutical conclusion is backwards and can in NO WAY be true. Why? Simple logic. Did the Jews accept the message? No, they did not. Question: “Was John Elijah if they were NOT willing to accept it?†Obviously the answer is NO! If the Jews DID NOT accept the message, thus resulting in John NOT being Elijah; and Elijah MUST COME before that great and terrible day of the Lord, which YOU CLAIM is 70 AD, how can this be? The Jews, who rejected the message, resulting in John not being Elijah, were the very targets of the 70 AD destruction, yet because they didn’t accept the message, John was not Elijah, thus Elijah did not come. However, before that great and terrible day of the Lord, he MUST!

Exaybachay parousia!

More to come this weekend. Am I finished? As Al Pacino said: Nah uh! I’m just gettin' warmed up!

 

[Matthew24:34]

Parousia70, I dub thee Exaybachay (He Who Talks Loud, Saying Nothing). When I have some time off work on the weekend I’m going to totally eviscerate this bastardizing of Scripture you have posted for your sole purpose of furthering a false teaching. I shouldn’t have to do this, because there is only one reference I need mention to collapse your entire house of cards. But you FP’s are so pugnacious I’m going to give it the full treatment. For the rest of us who actually "think", here is all that is needed to disprove this garbage (the first of many):

Parousia70 said:
Jesus attested that this messenger was, indeed, Elijah that was to come before the "great and terrible day of the Lord" (Matt 17:10-13; Mal 4:4-5).

Was John the Baptist “indeed†Elijah?

Luke 1:17, "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

Malachi prophesied that the Messiah would be introduced by Elijah.

Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Malachi 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And introduce Jesus he did:

Matthew 3:11, "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

Here is Matthew's testimony regarding the identity of John the Baptist:

Matthew 3:1 "In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Matthew 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight."

And here is some interesting dialogue between John the Baptist and representatives of the Pharisees that takes place in John 1:

John 1:21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
John 1:22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?
John 1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias.
John 1:24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
John 1:25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
John 1:27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Note: Notice how the Pharisees differentiated between Elijah of Malachi 4:5-6 and the Messenger of Malachi 3:1 as seen in verses 21 and 25 in John above. Nothing too significant, but worth noting.

When asked about the identity of John the Baptist, here's what Jesus said about him:

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.
Matthew 11:14 "and if you are willing to accept it", he is Elijah who is to come.

Later, however, we see a shift in the presentation of the identity of John the Baptist:

Matthew 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Matthew 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
Matthew 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Matthew 17:13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Jesus sums it up here:

Matthew 21:32 "For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him."

"If" the Jews had received Jesus as the Messiah, then John the Baptist would have fulfilled the role of the prophet of Malachi 3:1 and Malachi 4:5-6. However, since the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah, then John the Baptist did not fulfill the stated role of Elijah. In other words, John the Baptist could have been Elijah, but wasn't because of the rejection of Jesus as Messiah. Also if you recall, Isaiah had prophesied that they would reject the Messiah in his first advent (Isaiah 53).

Matthew 11:14 and if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah who is to come.

"John is the Elijah who is to come, IF you are will to accept the message". Of course, the message was not accepted, Jesus Christ was crucified, and the Kingdom was rejected, so John was not regarded as "the" Elijah who "is" to come before that great and dreadful day of the Lord. If they would have accepted Christ as Messiah, then the Kingdom would have been ushered in at that time (Matthew 22:1-8), and John the Baptist would have been regarded as Elijah (Matthew 11:14). In other words, Elijah must come before “the day of the Lordâ€Â, when Jesus comes as King of Kings (plural) and Lord of Lords, and the day of vengeance of our God (Isaiah 61:2, Revelation 19:16), not the “day†when Christ came as the Lamb of God, was rejected and crucified, and offered salvation and grace to humanity (Isaiah 61:1). This is why Jesus only read half of the prophecy from Isaiah 61:1-2 when he read from the scroll in Luke 4:18-19.

Your hermeneutical conclusion is backwards and can in NO WAY be true. Why? Simple logic. Did the Jews accept the message? No, they did not. Question: “Was John Elijah if they were NOT willing to accept it?†Obviously the answer is NO! If the Jews DID NOT accept the message, thus resulting in John NOT being Elijah; and Elijah MUST COME before that great and terrible day of the Lord, which YOU CLAIM is 70 AD, how can this be? The Jews, who rejected the message, resulting in John not being Elijah, were the very targets of the 70 AD destruction, yet because they didn’t accept the message, John was not Elijah, thus Elijah did not come. However, before that great and terrible day of the Lord, he MUST!

Exaybachay parousia!

More to come this weekend. Am I finished? As Al Pacino said: Nah uh! I’m just gettin' warmed up!

Osgiliath: This is my last direct post to you. I say this to you as a fellow believer and for your own good--you are arrogant, condescending, rude, childish and totally unchristlike in your discussions here. When you decide to stop with your hateful descriptions of fellow believers and your insulting, childlike smilies, perhaps we can begin some civilized and mature exchanges. Until them, I am ignoring you until you grow up!

Matthew24:34

 

[Osgiliath]

Clever way of dodging Matt. I bet you're relieved I gave you a way out. Never fails, you always find a way out when you've been had. I see you have no sense of humor when it comes to discussion. And by the way; there are different levels of personal insults, and you have now crossed the line, whereas I was just having a little fun. Now it's my turn since you have chosen to play hardball. Here’s what I really think.

Let me begin with a verse from the Bible:

Amos 8:11 “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORDâ€Â

The famine is very great indeed if preposterous doctrine such as yours actually has an audience. Even those with a minimal knowledge of the Bible recognize the folly of such a heresy. That is why it is only the ignorant who get lured into such a delusion, and why it is only the ignorant you prey upon. The famine of Amos has indeed come to pass, and I’m going to be on you blood suckers like white on rice, up above and down below, around every corner and behind every bush, to make sure you don’t sink your vile teeth into a stray sheep.

Vic was right; you guys are nothing but energy vampires. So much time has to be wasted skimming the surface when dealing with your shallow, elementary doctrine, it becomes an obstacle that gets in the way of exploring the beautiful truths that swim in the depths of the Holy Spirit. Your spiritual eyes are shut, and all you’re good for is gratuitous etymological games and deceitful, uninspiring pseudo-dogma. Quite frankly, I see you full-preterists as pests; pests that need out of the forum and into the roach motel (hopefully with Gideon’s Bible in the dresser drawer). You’re witless, gluttonous, self-serving forum trolls that seek to pummel the weak - and should be dragged into the light and turned into stones, preferably the very stones of the 70 AD temple. You’re diverting the attention of Christians away from truth for your own selfish purposes, when they should be preparing for the return of our Lord; as He asks of us. You think my job is to play nicey-nice with destructive false teaching? Think again!

You are of the very people Paul warned us about in 2 Timothy 2:16-18; “Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and overthrow the faith of someâ€Â. You are the scoffers mentioned in 2 Peter 3:3-4 who say: “for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creationâ€Â, and blatantly deny that “the heavens and earth that now exist are, by the same Word, stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgmentâ€Â. You are the deceitful workers in 2 Corinthians 11; who come “preaching another Jesus, disguised as ministers of righteousnessâ€Â. You are the false Christ’s Jesus warned us about who say “Lo, here is Christ, or there - behold, he is in the secret chambersâ€Â.

I encourage everyone in this forum to recognize that prophecy is being fulfilled here, at this very moment. These very people are here now, right before your eyes: scoffing, claiming to be of Christ, claiming Christ has already come, claiming the resurrection is already past; so take a good look and never forget what Jesus said:

Don't believe them!

 

[parousia70]

But you FP’s are so pugnacious I’m going to give it the full treatment.

When have I EVER claimed to be a FP?

Show me the post.