Sheesh, what passes for "Christian" these days

[handy]

My daughter went on a sleep-over last Sunday night. The girl she stayed with is from a supposedly Christian family. They don't go to church regularly, but every time my daughter has stayed there or she's come to our place, there have been discussions about what kind of music she can't listen to, or what kind of movies she is unable to watch. I was under the impression that her folks were pretty strict.

So, when I drop my daughter off, their eldest daughter who is 19, has her boyfriend laying across her lap. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that he just laid there, across this young woman's lap, without getting up, but wrote it off to bad manners. One would expect a gentleman, or even just a decent guy, to get up and off of the lap when two relative strangers, a woman and a young girl especially, come in.

When I picked my daughter up on Monday, we were driving home when she popped out with "----- says that James (the boyfriend) hits on me more than any of her friends."

OK, so THAT was a major conversation. Seems as though James is a jerk with a low-life sense of humor. My daughter handled it, but Mama Bear was still fairly angry.

Then later, she casually mentions how she was the first person up in the morning, and had to step carefully over James and the girlfriend as they were sleeping together on an air mattress in the middle of the living room floor.

Is it just me, or isn't it wildly inappropriate for people who claim to be Christians to have their unmarried daughter and her boyfriend sleep together in the middle of the living room when there are underage girls in the house? I mean, the parents were home...

I cannot even fathom allowing either of my children sleep with someone they are not married too, under my roof. But, especially if my underage daughter was entertaining an equally underage friend.

Again, is it just me? Or are they ANY standards of behaviors in the so-called "church" anymore? :bigfrown

 

[jasoncran]

sadly no, we are more like the world these days. we need to repent.

 

[Theofilus]

Again, is it just me? Or are they ANY standards of behaviors in the so-called "church" anymore? :bigfrown

No, it isn't just you. The standard of morality among Christians is often not much better than in the world in general. About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship. His father is a well known singer her in Iceland and had his own music ministry in another church with his wife. They saw nothing wrong with what their son was doing and disagreed strongly with the decision to kick him out of the group. What's even more amazing is that the girl's parents were also ok with it. I don't know if they were Christians though.

 

[Mike]

Then later, she casually mentions how she was the first person up in the morning, and had to step carefully over James and the girlfriend as they were sleeping together on an air mattress in the middle of the living room floor.

Oh my gosh! As I read this, I had to hold my head and drag my hands over my face! NO! This is not acceptable behavior of a family I would leave my child with. I'm not questioning your judgment of course. You had no idea that this would happen.

Hopefully, you can turn this into a "learning moment" with your daughter. You scare me, because this gives me a view to my life in a year or two. My son heads from 8 years of Christian school to a public high school. :o :o :o

 

[Pard]

As I read this I honestly didn't see the problem. Of course, I reread it and I got it. Whether I like it or not I have been trained to see this as normal (12 years of public education).

Of course it is not normal at all and especially not in front of little girls.

Yes, it is hard to stomach the things that pass for Christian now a days and it is harder still to accept that often times these are the images the secular world sees.

 

[jasoncran]

when we watch tv and such filth things like this desentisies us. i hate to say that.

 

[handy]

Pard, your response made me think of what the Lord said regarding being salt:

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men." Matthew 5:13

It seems as though this is what the church, at least here in America, has become, worthless, tasteless, salt.

 

[jasoncran]

Pard, your response made me think of what the Lord said regarding being salt:

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men." Matthew 5:13

It seems as though this is what the church, at least here in America, has become, worthless, tasteless, salt.

:verysad
not all but it seems that way.

 

[l'Chante]

Mike, we had the same reaction here. It scares me. It really does. Before I wipe my eyes, my daughter will want to go to parties like this. How do you know? How do you know that the people you are leaving your child with are actually good, Christian people with morals and values? From what Handy described here, I would have left my child there.

 

[Tina]

About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship.

Kicked out ?? !!! .....

Man, that sounds a tad harsh ... it seems like a drastic action ....

Would Jesus do something like that ?

 

[Theofilus]

About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship.

Kicked out ?? !!! .....

Man, that sounds a tad harsh ... it seems like a drastic action ....

Would Jesus do something like that ?

Maybe "kicked out" isn't the best way to phrase it. The fellowship had a rule that nobody openly living in sin could be in any kind of ministry. He was welcome to continu attending meetings, but couldn't minister until he stopped living with that girl. It migh seem harsh, but I think it was the right thing to do. Whether the parents agreed to it or not, he was an adult and she was a child and they weren't married.

My point wasn't the fellowship's reaction though, but his parents'. They had been Christians for about 20 years and had a music ministry, and they found nothing wrong with their son being a paedophile.

 

[l'Chante]

My point wasn't the fellowship's reaction though, but his parents'. They had been Christians for about 20 years and had a music ministry, and they found nothing wrong with their son being a paedophile.

My father taught me to always ‘bring a situation home’. (Bad translation, I know, but it’s the best I could do.) When you read a headline saying ‘Girl died in car crash’ change it to ‘My daughter died in car crash’. It keeps you from de-sensitising.

That 14 year old girl could have been mine. What is a 20 year old man doing with a 14 year old girl? I would’ve been so grateful if the church took a stance against a paedophile like that if it was my daughter. It is shocking that her parents even allowed that.

 

[jasoncran]

that's chargeable as statutory rape. however in the state of florida its legal for that same 20 yr old to have sex with a 16 yr old. sick but its the truth.

 

[Pard]

that's chargeable as statutory rape. however in the state of florida its legal for that same 20 yr old to have sex with a 16 yr old. sick but its the truth.

Same in most states. Not sure about Florida, but in CT parent consent is required for this. It is there because of marriage arrangements and the fact that long ago (100+ years) men used to marry woman far younger than themselves because by the time they got through their education all the woman their own age were married away.

 

[handy]

About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship.

Kicked out ?? !!! .....

Man, that sounds a tad harsh ... it seems like a drastic action ....

Would Jesus do something like that ?

Maybe "kicked out" isn't the best way to phrase it. The fellowship had a rule that nobody openly living in sin could be in any kind of ministry. He was welcome to continu attending meetings, but couldn't minister until he stopped living with that girl. It migh seem harsh, but I think it was the right thing to do. Whether the parents agreed to it or not, he was an adult and she was a child and they weren't married.

My point wasn't the fellowship's reaction though, but his parents'. They had been Christians for about 20 years and had a music ministry, and they found nothing wrong with their son being a paedophile.

Actually there is a very strong Biblical principle to take such strong discipline with those who would live openly in sin:

1 Corinthians 5 (New International Version)

1 Corinthians 5
Expel the Immoral Brother!
1It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife. 2And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this? 3Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

6Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7Get rid of the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast—as you really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

9I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

12What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
quoted from Bible Gateway

According to Paul, we should expel those who live openly in sexual immorality or greed or other sinful behaviors from our fellowship. Not for the purpose of hatred, but for the ultimate saving of the soul. We are not to remain in communion with those who would so openly flaunt their sinful perversions.

 

[watchman F]

Pard, your response made me think of what the Lord said regarding being salt:

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men." Matthew 5:13

It seems as though this is what the church, at least here in America, has become, worthless, tasteless, salt.

You forgot good for nothing...j/k. However n reality very few people who claim the name of Christ these days are truly serving the Lord.

 

[coffeelover]

About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship.

Kicked out ?? !!! .....

Man, that sounds a tad harsh ... it seems like a drastic action ....

Would Jesus do something like that ?

I find this situation to be odd. My great grandmother got married to a 20 something man when she was 14. She had 15 children of which 10 survived. She lived to be 103 and passed away just a few years ago. She was the strongest Christian I have ever met.

She never wanted my siblings or I to live that kind of life. She always told my sisters to wait as long as they could before getting married or having sinful relations. I think that times have just changed, and that people don't need to get married so young, and that men who seek after young girls are not gentlemen but predators.

 

[watchman F]

About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship.

Kicked out ?? !!! .....

Man, that sounds a tad harsh ... it seems like a drastic action ....

Would Jesus do something like that ?

Of course the kid should have been removed from the worship team he was living with a 14 yr old girl.

 

[watchman F]

About 15 years ago I was in a fellowship which we shall leave unnamed. One of the main singers in the worship group was about 20 at the time. When it became known that he was living with a 14 year old girl, he was kicked out of the worship team, but not out of the fellowship.

Kicked out ?? !!! .....

Man, that sounds a tad harsh ... it seems like a drastic action ....

Would Jesus do something like that ?

I find this situation to be odd. My great grandmother got married to a 20 something man when she was 14. She had 15 children of which 10 survived. She lived to be 103 and passed away just a few years ago. She was the strongest Christian I have ever met.

She never wanted my siblings or I to live that kind of life. She always told my sisters to wait as long as they could before getting married or having sinful relations. I think that times have just changed, and that people don't need to get married so young, and that men who seek after young girls are not gentlemen but predators.

Married and living together are two different things. I was 31 and my wife 19 when we got married the age difference is not the problem, it is the fornication that would cause him to be removed from the worship team. Leadership should be held to a higher standard.

 

[coffeelover]

I agree on the non married part for sure, but I disagree on the age part. If I met any man in his late 20's or 30's married 14 year old girl I would not for one second think he was a true Christian.