Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

[Bazz1040]

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I can understand why you might think this - common sense would suggest that if Jesus is really in charge, then all troubles will be solved. The problem is that this is not what the Scripture teaches. As Paul says, Jesus reigns until all enemies have been defeated. That clearly implies that the world will not be "perfect" until the end of his reign (when He hands authority to the Father, as, again, per 1 Corinthians 15).

The muddled state of our world does not change the Biblical position that Jesus already reigns over all things, including this present world.

I never said that Jesus was not in charge.......I said His kingdom is not of this world. The scripture that I post clearly tells us that Satan is whom rules in the heart of men.....he is the god that controls man's system. The Bible says, Satan has deceived the whole world. And the Bible tells us that when Jesus turns the kingdom over to the Father the world would already have been a perfect place. It will be because Jesus was reigning as king of kings on the Earth a thousand years before that.

 

[Lewis]

Ok so what is the majority saying here, that Christians should not fight in wars, even if we are attacked are not. Is this what I am getting from most of you ?

 

[Bazz1040]

Ok so what is the majority saying here, that Christians should not fight in wars, even if we are attacked are not. Is this what I am getting from most of you ?

That's what Jesus taught and lived. Those who trust God will leave it up to God to see them through all situations and circumstances.<O</O

 

[Lewis]

That's what Jesus taught and lived. Those who trust God will leave it up to God to see them through all situations and circumstances.<o></o>

So you are telling me that if we got invaded, they came in raped the wife, the daughters, maybe your sons, then beat up and kill your family, and you people will just stand around and do nothing ? And please show me where Jesus said don't protect your family, Jesus said I and the father are one, the Bible says that God is a God of war. And yes we also know that He is a God of peace. Let me tell you something God does not want you to stand there and get your brains blown out while Osama bin Laden and crew, come in here and take over, and you stand up there and do nothing come on give me a break.

 

[Strangelove]

Ok so what is the majority saying here, that Christians should not fight in wars, even if we are attacked are not. Is this what I am getting from most of you ?

'fraid so Lewis. You see the truth of God's Word always rises to the top on the forums. No one said it would be easy to follow Christs commandments.

 

[Strangelove]

So you are telling me that if we got invaded, they came in raped the wife, the daughters, maybe your sons, then beat up and kill your family, and you people will just stand around and do nothing ? And please show me where Jesus said don't protect your family, Jesus said I and the father are one, the Bible says that God is a God of war. And yes we also know that He is a God of peace.

I would defend my family. I would run and hide. If an invading army were in your house already then there would be nothing you could do anyway so thats not realistic. I would not join the corrupt governments armed forces. For america this has always involved invading other countries (usually illegally) and NOT defending the mainland.

Let me tell you something God does not want you to stand there and get your brains blown out while Osama bin Laden and crew, come in here and take over, and you stand up there and do nothing come on give me a break.

You would do better to worry about your own government than scary muslim extremists. Bin Laden was a known CIA asset for decades. This is documented and proven.

 

[Bazz1040]

So you are telling me that if we got invaded, they came in raped the wife, the daughters, maybe your sons, then beat up and kill your family, and you people will just stand around and do nothing ? And please show me where Jesus said don't protect your family, Jesus said I and the father are one, the Bible says that God is a God of war. And yes we also know that He is a God of peace. Let me tell you something God does not want you to stand there and get your brains blown out while Osama bin Laden and crew, come in here and take over, and you stand up there and do nothing come on give me a break.

I am telling you that God is my protector and provider. What is the purpose for trusting in God if you are going to take matters into your own hands? You show me in the Bible where you should not trust God to deliver you and your family in situation like what you are describing? Your problem is you don't trust God to protect you, so you think you have to do it yourself. You sit around and imagine the worse case scenario and say man if that were to happen I am going to have to fight.....I can't depend on God to save me and my family. No wonder some “Christians” suffer anxiety and depression needlessly. For me, I am too busy trusting God to be worried about what would I do if this or that happens.

By the way, are you also going to fight your government when it turns against you because even as we speak they are slowly taking your rights away? They will soon take the American people's right to legally own a gun. And what hope would they have anyway of winning against the government that has tanks, bombs, fighter planes and all the things that the army has at its disposal. Face it, you are better off trusting God to deliver you the way He sees fit.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o></o>

 

[Strangelove]

I am telling you that God is my protector and provider. What is the purpose for trusting in God if you are going to take matters into your own hands? You show me in the Bible where you should not trust God to deliver you and your family in situation like what you are describing? Your problem is you don't trust God to protect you, so you think you have to do it yourself. You sit around and imagine the worse case scenario and say man if that were to happen I am going to have to fight.....I can't depend on God to save me and my family. No wonder some “Christians†suffer anxiety and depression needlessly. For me, I am too busy trusting God to be worried about what would I do if this or that happens. <O</O

10:4 Bazzmeister. Recieved & understood.

Doc out.

 

[Drew]

So you are telling me that if we got invaded, they came in raped the wife, the daughters, maybe your sons, then beat up and kill your family, and you people will just stand around and do nothing ? And please show me where Jesus said don't protect your family, Jesus said I and the father are one, the Bible says that God is a God of war. And yes we also know that He is a God of peace. Let me tell you something God does not want you to stand there and get your brains blown out while Osama bin Laden and crew, come in here and take over, and you stand up there and do nothing come on give me a break.

While I can empathize with your position here, I see Jesus as clearly teaching that you do not defeat the enemy by simply being better than he is at wielding the very instruments of death and destruction that he uses.

Common sense says, yes, pick up arms to defend yourself. And I am not saying that I have reached a final position on this issue. But there is a lot about the gospel path that goes deeply against "common sense".

Remember what Jesus says to Pilate in that confrontation where we quite literally have the "standard kingdom of this world" (represented, of course, by Pilate) and the in-breaking kingdom of God, about to be inaugurated (represented by Jesus) literally facing off with one another:

Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?" "Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?" "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?"

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place." "You are a king, then!" said Pilate. Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king.

 

[Lewis]

Yes we are to try and live in peace with all men, but there is a time for war, because, the Bible says so. I would rather not have a war, and would do everything that I could to prevent one, but if you can't, "Oh Well"

Read this Scripture slowly.

Romans 12:18 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-28264">18</sup>If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


Note the words (if it be possible)
Not all people will let you live in peace with them, and when you have tried everything under the sun to live in peace with them, and they are still dropping bombs on your country, it is time to fight to the death if need be. I can see that some of you I could not trust in a fox hole with me at all.

 

[Bazz1040]

Yes we are to try and live in peace with all men, but there is a time for war, because, the Bible says so. I would rather not have a war, and would do everything that I could to prevent one, but if you can't, "Oh Well"

Read this Scripture slowly.

Romans 12:18 (King James Version)


<SUP id=en-KJV-28264 class=versenum>18</SUP>If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.


Note the words (if it be possible)
Not all people will let you live in peace with them, and when you have tried everything under the sun to live in peace with them, and they are still dropping bombs on your country, it is time to fight to the death if need be. I can see that some of you I could not trust in a fox hole with me at all.

And if you notice it did not say, and if not then go to war. It means that you do your part to live peace with others. But sometimes even doing your best will not make someone want to live in peace with you, so for the sake of resolving an issue the peace maker will allow himself to be defrauded or wrongfully treated.<O</O
<O</O

And believe me I would not be caught dead in a fox hole......unless I fall into one by accident.<O</O

 

[Lewis]

Definition

Pacifism covers a spectrum of views, including the belief that international disputes can and should be peacefully resolved, calls for the abolition of the institutions of the military and war, opposition to any organization of society through governmental force (anarchist or libertarian pacifism), rejection of the use of physical violence to obtain political, economic or social goals, the obliteration of force except in cases where it is absolutely necessary to advance the cause of peace, and opposition to violence under any circumstance, even defense of self and others. A person who beleaves in peace or no violence is required.
Moral considerations

Pacifism may be based on moral principles (a deontological view) or pragmatism (a consequentialist view). Principled pacifism holds that at some point along the spectrum from war to interpersonal physical violence, such violence becomes morally wrong. Pragmatic pacifism holds that the costs of war and inter-personal violence are so substantial that better ways of resolving disputes must be found. Pacifists in general reject theories of Just War.
Nonviolence

Some pacifists follow principles of nonviolence, believing that nonviolent action is morally superior and/or pragmatically most effective. Some pacifists, however, support physical violence for emergency defense of self or others. Others support destruction of property in such emergencies or for conducting symbolic acts of resistance like pouring red paint to represent blood on the outside of military recruiting offices or entering air force bases and hammering on military aircraft. However, part of the pacifist belief system is taking responsibility for one's actions by submitting to arrest and using a trial to publicize opposition to war and other forms of violence.
Non-aggression

In contrast to the nonviolence principle stands the non-aggression principle, which rejects the initiation of violence, but permits the use of violence for self-defense or delegated defense. Although people supporting the non-aggression principle often call themselves pacifists, but they are more properly described as voluntaryists. They claim that the moral prohibition of the use of violence follows from argumentation ethics, which only applies when people are using argumentation to solve disputes. So it does not apply when someone is subject to initiated violence, and hence self-defense is not morally rejected.
Dove

Dove or dovish are informal terms used, especially in politics, for people who prefer to avoid war or prefer war as a last resort. The terms refer to the story of Noah's Ark in which the dove came to symbolize the hope of salvation and peace.<sup class="Template-Fact" title="This claim needs references to reliable sources from July 2009" style="white-space: nowrap;">[citation needed]</sup> Similarly, in common parlance, the opposite of a dove is a hawk or war hawk.
Early history

Please go here and scroll down.
Pacifism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Lewis]

Somebody please explain this Scripture, I have posted it in the past and nobody has ever answered it. This was Jesus saying this Scripture. Why would Jesus tell people to buy a sword ?

Luke 22:36 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-25901">36</sup>Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

 

[Adstar]

Luke 22
36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-25898">37</sup> For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.â€
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-25899">38</sup> So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.â€
And He said to them, “It is enough.â€

He was telling His diciples to get swords because He had to fulfill the prophecy "‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’" When they told Him they had two swords, He said "it is enough" Actually 1 sword was enough to fulfill the prophecy And when that sword was used to fulfill the prophecy Jesus made it clear that His followers should not use them again.

Matthew 26
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-24101">50</sup> But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?â€
Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-24102">51</sup> And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-24103">52</sup> But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NKJV-24104">53</sup> Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Bazz1040]

Somebody please explain this Scripture, I have posted it in the past and nobody has ever answered it. This was Jesus saying this Scripture. Why would Jesus tell people to buy a sword ?

Luke 22:36 (King James Version)


<SUP id=en-KJV-25901 class=versenum>36</SUP>Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

That verse Jesus answered in the following verse (37). Jesus was making sure that what was prophesied of Him was fulfilled, and I quote Him, He said; He was numbered with the transgressors. Them carrying a sword made Jesus looked like He was preparing an insurrection against the Roman government, so that He would be considered a transgresser.<O</O
<O</O
<O</O

Luke 22:37-38 (NASB77)
<SUP>37 </SUP>"For I tell you, that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment."
<SUP>38 </SUP>And they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." <O</O

Had Jesus intended for them to use it He would not have told the disciple that struck the servant of the high priest, to put his sword away. You see just like you the disciples thought that Jesus would fight to defend Himself and them.

<OMatthew 26:52-54 (Darby)
<SUP>52 </SUP>Then saith Jesus to him, Return thy sword to its place; for all who take the sword shall perish by the sword.
<SUP>53 </SUP>Or thinkest thou that I cannot now call upon my Father, and he will furnish me more than twelve legions of angels?
<SUP>54 </SUP>How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be?



<!--EndFragment--></O

 

[Sissy]

Abraham had a well trained army with him.
He and his army went after the army that took Lot captive, and slew them.

Melchizedek (priest of the Most High God) blessed Abraham.

Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

 

[Adstar]

That verse Jesus answered in the following verse (37). Jesus was making sure that what was prophesied of Him was fulfilled, and I quote Him, He said; He was numbered with the transgressors. Them carrying a sword made Jesus looked like He was preparing an insurrection against the Roman government, so that He would be considered a transgresser.<o></o>
<o></o>
<o></o>

Luke 22:37-38 (NASB77)
³⁷"For I tell you, that this which is written must be fulfilled in Me, 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH TRANSGRESSORS'; for that which refers to Me has its fulfillment."
³⁸And they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough." <o></o>

Had Jesus intended for them to use it He would not have told the disciple that struck the servant of the high priest, to put his sword away. You see just like you the disciples thought that Jesus would fight to defend Himself and them.

<o>Matthew 26:52-54 (Darby) </o>
⁵²Then saith Jesus to him, Return thy sword to its place; for all who take the sword shall perish by the sword.
⁵³Or thinkest thou that I cannot now call upon my Father, and he will furnish me more than twelve legions of angels?
⁵⁴How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be?



<!--EndFragment-->

beat you bazz by 6 minutes LOL


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lewis]

Abraham had a well trained army with him.
He and his army went after the army that took Lot captive, and slew them.

Melchizedek (priest of the Most High God) blessed Abraham.

Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Amen & Amen again:armed:armed:swords:twopistols:fullauto

 

[Bazz1040]

Abraham had a well trained army with him.
He and his army went after the army that took Lot captive, and slew them.

Melchizedek (priest of the Most High God) blessed Abraham.

Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

Abraham also did animal sacrifice, married his half sister and had children by his wife female servants.......so are you in favor of those things as well? <O</O
<O</O

What is fine in the Old Testament is not in the New.<O</O

 

[Bazz1040]

beat you bazz by 6 minutes LOL


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Yes, I noticed.
I did not even see your response until after I post mine.<O</O