Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

[Adstar]

Question.

Why are we even talking about Ali?

Why are we even talking about America and it's current War?

This discussion should be focused on the Bible and what Jesus said.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Drew]

I don't think we should compare the crucificition of Christ to men fighting in wars. It only cheapens the act of Christ ultimate sacrifice and the purpose of his non-resistance.

This is not a Biblically defensible position. Paul (and Jesus) both teach that the cross is function as a model for how we live. And on the cross, Jesus showed us the way to defeat evil - and it is certainly not the road of taking up the very weapons of force that evil uses.

Christ himself said in John 18 vs 36 Jesus answered "My kingdom is not of this world: If my kingdom were of this world then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." I see Christ saying that there are things worth fighting for.

I believe Jesus is saying precisely the opposite of what you think He is saying. Jesus explains why his followers are not fighting. And the reason is that they (the followers) are following a new kingdom model, which is characterized by non-violence. Jesus is inaugurating a new kingdom, and in that kingdom, violent force has no place.

 

[Bazz1040]

because you came across that way and you claim that you are no citizen of any country.

perhaps mandatory service for the immigrants if able is a good idea. and then when they do serve they get the citizenship. i have a co they did just that. he is now a u.s. citizen

heres the problem.

if i go to say australia on a visa, and i gripe and bellyache about how bad it is , one might assume that the aussies would get offended. rightly so. they doesnt mean that i dont have to agree with thier policies on everything, but i am not going to acusse them of something with flimsly evidence , call the govt that gives me healthcare(medicare and they treat immigrants) evil, and also lyiing and opressive.

rather i would be polite and see what the problem is adress that one and ask for help since as a non-citizen of that country i cant vote but i could seek recourse through friends.

i as a floridan hate when nyers gripe about how expensive it is, i want to tell them take I-95 north and dont come back.
they want something for nothing and they know how cheaper it is in florida then ny.

No he does not have the right to come over here talking like that to us, if you don't like it here why don't you just leave, and Strangelove I will not listen to you period.

Did Lot have right criticize the people of Sodom and Gomorrah about their sinful living being a stranger in their Country? My friend, I have every right to say what I am saying......I don't need the government or your approval. Anyone that speaks the truth of God speaks under God authority.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
And I did not say that I was not a citizen of any Country......I said I am a citizen of the kingdom of God or Heaven......that is where my loyalty is. Where my natural birth is, is of no importance.

 

[Lewis]

Would it be any more respectful if I said what I said outside of the Country? I am not a coward.....if I have something to say I say it face to face......I don't like talking about others behind their backs. <o>:p</o>:p

No he does not have the right to come over here talking like that to us, if you don't like it here why don't you just leave, and Strangelove I will not listen to you period.

 

[Bazz1040]

evidence. i want proof from you right know that says bush ordered the murder of civilians, documents.

where is the orders? i dont have that order when i was there. funny i helped more civilains then anything.

in fact we treated them! and thier animals!

did we bomb them? oh yeah nyt times did report stating that the iraquis killed each other more then u.s. did.

if you cant provide a legitimate evidence that is either from a u.n. council or legit newsources. not youtube phony videos but i will take some videos of an investigation.

then you need to repent of that sin, called lying and false acussations.

U.S soliders killing civilians for fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_lBgO1WBSA

<O:p
Christian/American Extremism: Blackwater Wants to Eliminate Muslims and the Islamic Faith!</O:p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab3aiaRODdY

 

[Strangelove]

U.S soliders killing civilians for fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_lBgO1WBSA

<O:p
Christian/American Extremism: Blackwater Wants to Eliminate Muslims and the Islamic Faith!</O:p
[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab3aiaRODdY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab3aiaRODdY[/URL]

Absolutely disgraceful...not only the things they are doing but filming it with a camcorder too. Unbelievable. Whooping and laughing while killing what look like unarmed civilians.

And more evidence of the kinda things going on with the governments private mercenary army Blackwater/Xe.

Thanks Bazz

No he does not have the right to come over here talking like that to us, if you don't like it here why don't you just leave, and Strangelove I will not listen to you period.

It's regretable that you would write something like this to Brethren in Christ.

 

[Bazz1040]

Absolutely disgraceful...not only the things they are doing but filming it with a camcorder too. Unbelievable. Whooping and laughing while killing what look like unarmed civilians.

And more evidence of the kinda things going on with the governments private mercenary army Blackwater/Xe.

Thanks Bazz



It's regretable that you would write something like this to Brethren in Christ.

Unfortunately not everyone can handle the truth........Jesus even said it to His disciples before He was crucified. However, if one is still attached to the world's system it is understandable why one would be offended when someone speaks against it.
<O:p</O:p

 

[Lewis]

Strangelove wrote
It's regretable that you would write something like this to Brethren in Christ.

Well about this subject yes, I mean what I say, and yes I should tell the truth about how I feel, just as you do. Now on another subject I might agree with you, but not on this one, and I will let you know it. And a Christian should be honest with the other one, and let him or her know that they don't agree. So I have no regrets.

 

[Strangelove]

Unfortunately not everyone can handle the truth........Jesus even said it to His disciples before He was crucified. However, if one is still attached to the world's system it is understandable why one would be offended when someone speaks against it.
<O:p</O:p

6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall
separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast
out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.​

 

[Bazz1040]

6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall​

separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast
out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.​

Very true, but some rather be loved by the world than stand up for the truth or I’ll speak the truth as long as I am not speaking against the government.<O:p</O:p

 

[Ed the Ned]

What significance is there if I die on a cross? Can me dying on a cross save anyone? I'm human and a sinner and will not rize after 3 days. My act to sacrifice myself on a cross is useless. So trying to equate passive resistence and anti war flair with the death of Christ has no meaning. I never heard Christ tell one roman soldier to give up his arms, even the one who's child he saved. Yet he told the men who were about to stone an adultress to look within first and told the lady to sin no more. The wrath of God will come on those who do not believe in Christ and His judgement is just. Read Revelation 16.
By making judgement on the service men and women in the military, and claiming that no Christian can serve as a soldier for their country you place judgement on yourself.
I don't believe that war is the answer to everything, and if it can be avoided, the better. But if the lives of your family are at risk I believe we have the right to protect ourselves and our families. If that means using force, so be it. In Romans we are told to live in peace and love our neighbor as ourselves. but a little statement comes out of all the verses that even Paul had to say in verse 18 He said "If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." Surely this shows that peace is not always possible.

With my defence of the military, I am not condoning the acts of the USA government in the the war on Iraq at all. I am just stating that we cannot judge the heart of a man if he serves in the armed services and if he is called to war to protect his family, he has done no wrong. All will face the judgement seat of God.

 

[Bazz1040]

What significance is there if I die on a cross? Can me dying on a cross save anyone? I'm human and a sinner and will not rize after 3 days. My act to sacrifice myself on a cross is useless. So trying to equate passive resistence and anti war flair with the death of Christ has no meaning. I never heard Christ tell one roman soldier to give up his arms, even the one who's child he saved. Yet he told the men who were about to stone an adultress to look within first and told the lady to sin no more. The wrath of God will come on those who do not believe in Christ and His judgement is just. Read Revelation 16.
By making judgement on the service men and women in the military, and claiming that no Christian can serve as a soldier for their country you place judgement on yourself.
I don't believe that war is the answer to everything, and if it can be avoided, the better. But if the lives of your family are at risk I believe we have the right to protect ourselves and our families. If that means using force, so be it. In Romans we are told to live in peace and love our neighbor as ourselves. but a little statement comes out of all the verses that even Paul had to say in verse 18 He said "If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." Surely this shows that peace is not always possible.

With my defence of the military, I am not condoning the acts of the USA government in the the war on Iraq at all. I am just stating that we cannot judge the heart of a man if he serves in the armed services and if he is called to war to protect his family, he has done no wrong. All will face the judgement seat of God.

Everything that you say is assuming that the government is not lying to you about the reason for going to war. It is far easy to blindly believe the government than to say, hey wait a minute how do I know you are not using my patriotism for your own personal and hidden agenda? The lessen of histroy is that most people are folowers than leaders or thinkers.<O:p</O:p

 

[Strangelove]

I don't believe that war is the answer to everything, and if it can be avoided, the better. But if the lives of your family are at risk I believe we have the right to protect ourselves and our families. If that means using force, so be it.

Yeah but Ed....that cant include taking an army halfway around the world and levelling an entire country with bombs from the air on the whim of flakey intelligence data from a bunch of corrupt, lying politicians with an agenda.

In Romans we are told to live in peace and love our neighbor as ourselves. but a little statement comes out of all the verses that even Paul had to say in verse 18 He said "If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." Surely this shows that peace is not always possible.

Ok but why does that have to be talking about war? Killing people?

It's just community advice bro. Live peaceably with your neighbour if possible. If he's dumping rubbish on your front lawn then you may well have to raise your voice at him and break the peace temporarily.

With my defence of the military, I am not condoning the acts of the USA government in the the war on Iraq at all. I am just stating that we cannot judge the heart of a man if he serves in the armed services and if he is called to war to protect his family, he has done no wrong. All will face the judgement seat of God.

No-ones judging the heart dude.

 

[Strangelove]

Everything that you say is assuming that the government is not lying to you about the reason for going to war. It is far easy to blindly believe the government than to say, hey wait a minute how do I know you are not using my patriotism for your own person and hidden agenda? The lessen of histroy is that most people are folowers than leaders or thinkers.<O:p</O:p

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."


- Adolf Hitler

 

[Ed the Ned]

I am not American and I am not justifying the American war on Iraq. I have watched those video's and some other and I do not classify what I saw as war or Christian. I am explaining that I do not see the Bible telling anyone not to be a soldier. The title of the post is not specifying the Iraq war. From those videos it seems that the leadership amongst a group of "first shooter game" junkies have no honour in what they do. America should be ashamed.
My opinion is that the Iraq war was based on global economic requirements (as decided by a select few), and not on any intelligence whatsoever. I believe that American Presidents are puppets and do what they are told and if not they get exposed of, as in the case of Kennedy.
South African at the moment has thousands of troops in areas of Africa on peacekeeping missions. They are there to provide an armed force to force stability through presence and visibility. I am not a big fan of the UN or the OAU yet there are many Christians out there with giving hearts and integrity showing the people love and committing themselves to better the lives of others on our continent.
Regarding living in peace, although your analogy is amusing strange love, I don't think it is accurate . Christ himself was clear that people would hate Christians as they hated him first. Bazz you made a quote that more people are followers than leaders. It might be good to look at the verse from Luke.
This is what the centurion said to Jesus. "Lord do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. Therefore I did not presume to come to you, But say the word and let my servant be healed. For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me, and I say to one go and he goes and to another come and he comes and to my servant do this and he does it." When Jesus Heard these things he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him said. " I tell you not even in Israel have I found such faith."
The centurion saw Christ as someone who had authority, yet he was not a Jewish elder or anything. This Centurion was a soldier yet he help build a synagogue for his servants.

 

[Bazz1040]

I am not American and I am not justifying the American war on Iraq. I have watched those video's and some other and I do not classify what I saw as war or Christian. I am explaining that I do not see the Bible telling anyone not to be a soldier. The title of the post is not specifying the Iraq war. From those videos it seems that the leadership amongst a group of "first shooter game" junkies have no honour in what they do. America should be ashamed.
My opinion is that the Iraq war was based on global economic requirements (as decided by a select few), and not on any intelligence whatsoever. I believe that American Presidents are puppets and do what they are told and if not they get exposed of, as in the case of Kennedy.
South African at the moment has thousands of troops in areas of Africa on peacekeeping missions. They are there to provide an armed force to force stability through presence and visibility. I am not a big fan of the UN or the OAU yet there are many Christians out there with giving hearts and integrity showing the people love and committing themselves to better the lives of others on our continent.
Regarding living in peace, although your analogy is amusing strange love, I don't think it is accurate . Christ himself was clear that people would hate Christians as they hated him first. Bazz you made a quote that more people are followers than leaders. It might be good to look at the verse from Luke.
This is what the centurion said to Jesus. "Lord do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof. Therefore I did not presume to come to you, But say the word and let my servant be healed. For I too am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me, and I say to one go and he goes and to another come and he comes and to my servant do this and he does it." When Jesus Heard these things he marveled at him, and turning to the crowd that followed him said. " I tell you not even in Israel have I found such faith."
The centurion saw Christ as someone who had authority, yet he was not a Jewish elder or anything. This Centurion was a soldier yet he help build a synagogue for his servants.

There are lots of things that most people would know is wrong but is not specifically mentioned in that Bible. For example, the Bible does not say a man cannot marry a ten year old girl either, so does that mean it is fine if the law allows it? Rememne,r in some Countries it is legal to do that.

 

[Lewis]

What significance is there if I die on a cross? Can me dying on a cross save anyone? I'm human and a sinner and will not rize after 3 days. My act to sacrifice myself on a cross is useless. So trying to equate passive resistence and anti war flair with the death of Christ has no meaning. I never heard Christ tell one roman soldier to give up his arms, even the one who's child he saved. Yet he told the men who were about to stone an adultress to look within first and told the lady to sin no more. The wrath of God will come on those who do not believe in Christ and His judgement is just. Read Revelation 16.
By making judgement on the service men and women in the military, and claiming that no Christian can serve as a soldier for their country you place judgement on yourself.
I don't believe that war is the answer to everything, and if it can be avoided, the better. But if the lives of your family are at risk I believe we have the right to protect ourselves and our families. If that means using force, so be it. In Romans we are told to live in peace and love our neighbor as ourselves. but a little statement comes out of all the verses that even Paul had to say in verse 18 He said "If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." Surely this shows that peace is not always possible.

With my defence of the military, I am not condoning the acts of the USA government in the the war on Iraq at all. I am just stating that we cannot judge the heart of a man if he serves in the armed services and if he is called to war to protect his family, he has done no wrong. All will face the judgement seat of God.

Amen

 

[jasoncran]

U.S soliders killing civilians for fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_lBgO1WBSA

<O:p
Christian/American Extremism: Blackwater Wants to Eliminate Muslims and the Islamic Faith!</O:p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab3aiaRODdY

ok that is rather too limited to say that they were actually killing inocents or not why do i say this.
1) duh haji doesnt wear a uniform, he never did
2) were they ordered and what was the mission.
3) simply i cant make a determenation on what they shot was in fact an enemy or not that is in the video.

simply i say i shot that dude doesnt make him a civilian.

uh yeah that isnt biased the guy posted that. a muslim , nope haji wouldnt lie. no would he.

was he approved by the president? hmm it says one person who was a rougue, by that thinking if one is corrupt then all is.

might i submit that by your thinking that the entire modern christian chruch and the very bible is corrupt? why?

luther was a murder
and so was calvin.

uh and really that bastion of truth? mr.keith oberman the man that will and has lied for the dems not exactly an honest person.

and funny that while obama is president its swept under the rug.

so i guess it just stopped while obama was elected? thats odd when bush was president the body count was front page, but i guess that since obama was elected its not that important anymore.

simply saying that its so by that interviewee doenst make it so.

 

[Bazz1040]

ok that is rather too limited to say that they were actually killing inocents or not why do i say this.

Did you see or hear anyone firing on at them? I sure did not. I know that the army duped up some of their soldiers on drugs to make them act like killing machine, so they must have been high on drugs, or hight on hate. It’s no wonder so many of them come out so messed up and unable to function normally in civilian life.
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

1) duh haji doesnt wear a uniform, he never did
2) were they ordered and what was the mission.

That's a very poor excuse......would you kill yourself if you were ordered to?
<O:p</O:p

3) simply i cant make a determenation on what they shot was in fact an enemy or not that is in the video.

They were the one in that video that was shooting at passing cars.....cowards is I would call them.<O:p</O:p

i say i shot that dude doesnt make him a civilian.

Like I said, no indication in the least that they were being attact, unless you consider people driving by a threat.<O:p</O:p

uh yeah that isnt biased the guy posted that. a muslim , nope haji wouldnt lie. no would he.

He's biased because he is a Muslim? Is that your view of Muslims, that they are bias? Do you know him personally or are you just trying to find some reason to justify American soldiers committing war crimes?<O:p</O:p

was he approved by the president? hmm it says one person who was a rougue, by that thinking if one is corrupt then all is.

The question is how many have been prosecuted for war crimes?<O:p</O:p

might i submit that by your thinking that the entire modern christian chruch and the very bible is corrupt? why?

We know more about those so called Christians that killed and murdered people back then, than whether or not those in charged gave the order or created an environment for what American criminals in army uniform did. Criminality in the army is kept in secret from the public.<O:p</O:p

 

[jasoncran]

lets see here, you assume your point of view based on what? that the govt is evil and this is proof.

if i made that doctored or misleading video of you in court would let your lawyer not pick it apart?

so you assume that its being ordered by bush based on what? an opinion

theres not enough info to say what went on, i didnt say that they were innocent. now did i? i said that i cant form an opinion on that.

a person can act on their own, do they not?

funny who all this fine reporting of atrocities seems to disapear when a dem got elected.

really odd, it seems that its ok under obama. your info is way old.

if i recall you work for the govt? how can you knowing that its evil? rather hyprocritical if you work for the system and call it bad.

as hard as it would be i would leave the govt and the army if i thought that i was that oppresive

if its soo bad here why are you here. that is like me telling the chinese how opressive it is there and moving there to live there. rather silly.