Should Christians Fight In Wars ?

[jasoncran]

the army tests for drugs, i was tested for them in country for times,

dude this aint viet nam.

where you get this stuff.

btw read up on what sedition is, because you are associating with persons that promote that from some of those links you post

militias in america are considered hate groups. and often want to overthrow the govt.

i live near a local militia.

and i have been tested as recently as last month.

cant be an mp and being a druggie, not even pot.

that video agian is too short. there might have been shots fired and it was removed, or that was an ambush as they were evading another unit that they just hit and the marines were already there in an op(which that looked to be)

proof of this duping of drugs

btw i have been in 61 firefights and i have never been offered drugs.and that is called an adreline rush it happens when someone is shooting at you. you either cower the first time or react positively.

when you been in theater long enough you learn that to adopt to that and can as they did, not that i would or did but some do that. some react to action like that. i didnt but i understand that. i took cover under indirect and then joked about what i was wearing in the attack. boxers and flip-flops one occasion and on the crapper and hid in the latrine.

 

[Ed the Ned]

Jason, what got to me in that video was the disrespect for life. It can never be clear as to what was happening or the orders around the (what seems to be some kind of ambush). I saw highlights of the first episode of the pacific the other day and there was a japanese guy being taunted and shot. These are the atrocities that happen in war, but atrocities like these happen on our streets and in our homes as people drift from God.
These young men that join the militry because they want action, they want real life video games. They lack the integrity that needs to be shown in war. I respect you Jason as you have seen things and been involved in things that could easy make a man waver from his faith in Christ, yet you stand firm in your commitment.

 

[Bazz1040]

lets see here, you assume your point of view based on what? that the govt is evil and this is proof.

You assume that is what I am assuming. My friend, the U.S government has a history of criminality.......it did not start with the war in Iraq. The American government has propped up and supported pretty much most of the dictators around the world. It has been involved in overthrowing of democratically elected governments of other Countries. Please do your home work and do not rely on the mass media.<O:p</O:p

if i made that doctored or misleading video of you in court would let your lawyer not pick it apart?

How do you know its been doctored and by whom? The same ones in the video? What are you saying that the same people in that video wanted to make it look like they were targeting civilians? Criminals tent to be proud of their crimes and often brag about it and even video tape themselves in their crime.......it’s not the first time this has happened, because something like has been done by gangs in the U.S. And by the way gang members are in the military.<O:p</O:p

so you assume that its being ordered by bush based on what? an opinion

I am not saying that Bush order it but it is interesting that Bush unsigned that agreement that was signed by Bill Clinton that if U.S citizen was involved in war crimes they would be tried in the world court. So it would seem that Bush knew before hand that war crimes would be committed by American soldiers because they would have to in order to for them to do what he and Cheney wanted.<O:p</O:p

really odd, it seems that its ok under obama. your info is way old.

I am not a supporter of Obama......I even said that the economy would get worse under his administration.
<O:p</O:p

if i recall you work for the govt? how can you knowing that its evil? rather hyprocritical if you work for the system and call it bad.

I am not nor anyone where I work does make law or policies and I am not involved in doing their dirty work for them.<O:p</O:p

as hard as it would be i would leave the govt and the army if i thought that i was that oppresive.

Because you are a foot soldier.....you are not at the top where secret plans are made. You are among those that do their dirty work for them and fill your mind with lies that what you are doing is for your Country.<O:p</O:p

if its soo bad here why are you here. that is like me telling the chinese how opressive it is there and moving there to live there. rather silly.

That's for God and me to decide if I want to stay or not. And that question does not deal with the issue. If only people that agree with the government is doing then slavery would still be going on in America. If people like Martin Luther King left the U.S because he did not like what was going on, then much of what he and others were able to accomplish would not be.<O:p</O:p

 

[Strangelove]

Are we ready to talk about the US governments endorsement of torture in and out of war zones?

 

[jasoncran]

Jason, what got to me in that video was the disrespect for life. It can never be clear as to what was happening or the orders around the (what seems to be some kind of ambush). I saw highlights of the first episode of the pacific the other day and there was a japanese guy being taunted and shot. These are the atrocities that happen in war, but atrocities like these happen on our streets and in our homes as people drift from God.
These young men that join the militry because they want action, they want real life video games. They lack the integrity that needs to be shown in war. I respect you Jason as you have seen things and been involved in things that could easy make a man waver from his faith in Christ, yet you stand firm in your commitment.

i agree with that, i take no joy in that in killing even if i had do that. i never was attacked with direct fire, all the attacks agiasnt us were indirect.

yes some do see war as a video game, but do keep in mind sadly our western culture of violence has in a sense led us to that.

but if those guys in that video were interviewed yrs later we would find that i bet they would say that war is hell and that it aint a game.

no, God kept me through my time there.

 

[Drew]

What significance is there if I die on a cross? Can me dying on a cross save anyone? I'm human and a sinner and will not rize after 3 days. My act to sacrifice myself on a cross is useless. So trying to equate passive resistence and anti war flair with the death of Christ has no meaning.

I am afraid that the Bible teaches a different, more challenging position. Do I really need to make the Biblical case that the cross is indeed a model for the Christian to follow. Texts like "take up your cross" come to mind.

Jesus' death on the cross is not only the great act that achieves our redemption, although it is indeed that. It also functions as the model as to how we are to engage evil in the world. It would be nice and easy if we could get away with saying "Well, Jesus died on the cross to save me, but there is no need for me to model my life on what Jesus did, there is no need for me to be passive in the face of violence".

I wish it were that easy, but I suggest that the teaching of the New Testament is much more demanding. We are to follow Jesus' example in respect to how we engage and deal with evil. And that certainly does not mean defeating evil by using its own weapons - the weapons of death and destruction.

I never heard Christ tell one roman soldier to give up his arms, even the one who's child he saved.

People often mount variations of this argument to support certain positions. They argue that if Jesus never rebuked someone for doing X, He (Jesus) must therefore condone X.

Well I suggest that if Jesus really did rebuke every evil behaviour He encountered, He would never had time for anything else. The fact that Jesus never told a Roman soldier to give up his sword is not really a very convincing argument that Jesus condoned the activity of war.

By making judgement on the service men and women in the military, and claiming that no Christian can serve as a soldier for their country you place judgement on yourself.

How do you know this? I could just as easily simply assert that to condone and approve of war results in judgement for you.

"If possible, as far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all." Surely this shows that peace is not always possible.

True, but it simply does not logically follow that if we cannot live at peace, we should use force.

 

[Oats]

Ok here is the whole deal, if we have to go to war. Then we have to go to war, what is so hard to understand. Let me ask some of you something, say suppose America gets invaded, now we all have family here, what would you all do ?

I would turn the other cheek, and depend on God for help and not horses and chariots

There is nothing here on Earth worth killing for.

 

[Strangelove]

I would turn the other cheek, and depend on God for help and not horses and chariots

There is nothing here on Earth worth killing for.

The Oats has spoken. That settles it.

 

[Oats]

The Oats has spoken. That settles it.

Thanks Strangelove....

I noticed that you know a lot about the intricacies of the World Government...


I really don't believe in anything unless God instructs me to...but of course sincw we are all sinner we often fall...and revenge and war is a by product of that...

When God speaks of war I'm pretty sure it's spiritual on his terms...

But for me to follow the unjust commands of corrupt leader is wicked

 

[jasoncran]

I am afraid that the Bible teaches a different, more challenging position. Do I really need to make the Biblical case that the cross is indeed a model for the Christian to follow. Texts like "take up your cross" come to mind.

Jesus' death on the cross is not only the great act that achieves our redemption, although it is indeed that. It also functions as the model as to how we are to engage evil in the world. It would be nice and easy if we could get away with saying "Well, Jesus died on the cross to save me, but there is no need for me to model my life on what Jesus did, there is no need for me to be passive in the face of violence".

I wish it were that easy, but I suggest that the teaching of the New Testament is much more demanding. We are to follow Jesus' example in respect to how we engage and deal with evil. And that certainly does not mean defeating evil by using its own weapons - the weapons of death and destruction.


People often mount variations of this argument to support certain positions. They argue that if Jesus never rebuked someone for doing X, He (Jesus) must therefore condone X.

Well I suggest that if Jesus really did rebuke every evil behaviour He encountered, He would never had time for anything else. The fact that Jesus never told a Roman soldier to give up his sword is not really a very convincing argument that Jesus condoned the activity of war.


How do you know this? I could just as easily simply assert that to condone and approve of war results in judgement for you.


True, but it simply does not logically follow that if we cannot live at peace, we should use force.

i think that the guy with knife to your throat and wants to kill you and rape your wife , merits a response of force.

that doenst happen all the time. but one cant always assume that it wont.

 

[Lewis]

Oats Wrote
would turn the other cheek, and depend on God for help and not horses and chariots

There is nothing here on Earth worth killing for.

They might turn your cheek for you, by putting a bullet in it or through it.

 

[Oats]

They might turn your cheek for you, by putting a bullet in it or through it.

Then there's only one place to go right?

Heaven...why are you clinging to your Earthly life?

 

[Bazz1040]

They might turn your cheek for you, by putting a bullet in it or through it.

Then let them......nothing in this life was promise to last forever, but no man or anything can take away God's eternal promise to His people what He has even now given them.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p

But you can't grasp this understanding unless you have your mind set on things above.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Colossians 3:2-4 (ASV) <SUP>2 </SUP>Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth.
<SUP>3 </SUP>For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
<SUP>4 </SUP>When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory. <O:p</O:p

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[Oats]

Then let them......nothing in this life was promise to last forever, but no man or anything can take away God's eternal promise to His people what He has even now given them.<o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p

But you can't grasp this understanding unless you have your mind set on things above.<o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p
<o>:p</o>:p
Colossians 3:2-4 (ASV) ²Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are upon the earth.
³For ye died, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
⁴When Christ, who is our life, shall be manifested, then shall ye also with him be manifested in glory. <o>:p</o>:p

<!--EndFragment-->

Thank you

:p:p...lol

 

[Bazz1040]

Thank you

:p:p...lol

My pleasure. (Why are there so many happy faces in my post? Can anyone explain that to me please because I did not put them their?)<O:p</O:p

 

[Lewis]

Then there's only one place to go right?

Heaven...why are you clinging to your Earthly life?

No bro I am looking toward heaven. BBBBBut I am still on earth, and you know what there was a War In Heaven, now how about that.

 

[Sissy]

If I'm ever in a pickle, I want Jason and Lewis by my side!

 

[Strangelove]

If I'm ever in a pickle, I want Jason and Lewis by my side!

What about if your in a REAL pickle Sissy?

Who above all others would you choose?

Who's name would you cry out?

 

[Sissy]

What about if your in a REAL pickle Sissy?

Who above all others would you choose?

Who's name would you cry out?

My eternal pickle is already taken care of.

hehe! "eternal pickle"
That sounds funny.

 

[Bazz1040]

My eternal pickle is already taken care of.

Then why would you see the need to cry out to someone else?