I still owe a response to a few of you. I got busy doing other things, you know, real life caught up with me, and have been delayed. And it won't likely happen tonight. It will be just more food-for-thought anyway, for everyone I hope.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Should Christians rethink Hell?
- Thread starter TimothyW
- Start date
Did God create the heavens and earth? Of course. Is there energy in the heavens and earth? Of course. Since God is Creator, it is obvious to me that the One who creates things with energy must have energy.
I was in no way claiming that God is impersonal energy.
See above.
Do spirits have energy?
Actually, my assertion confirms that God "can and did create all matter, which would include energy".
The problem is on your side; that God has chosen to annihilate (destroy it completely so that nothing remains) people.
I'm definitely going to be there. Look me up, for sure.
LovethroughDove
Member
The irony. We'll being seeing eachother at a wedding when we get there. Matthew 22:2 :wink
stovebolts
Member
In the Hebrew / Biblical writings, soul and spirit have different names. Clearly, Gods word distinguishes between spirit and soul and there is good reason for this.
With this in mind, please pause and rethink your reply because the passage made no mention of the soul.
I am aware of the different words. In fact, there are places in Scripture where they are interchangeable.
I believe that the soul primarily refers to the immaterial person, that which God places into the body, creating a human being. Body without a soul is not a human being. At physical death, the soul leaves the body. The spirit is what is "born again" when one believes in Christ. This is the new birth. Jesus told the Samaritan woman that one must worship God in spirit and in truth. I believe He was referring to being born again by "spirit", which occurs when one believes.
Adam was created with body, soul, and spirit. When he rebelled, his human spirit died "on that day". That was spiritual death, and Adam was separated from God, which is why he hid from the Lord when He came in the evening. He had no capacity to worship God.
Since Adam, all are born physically alive but spiritually dead (Eph 2:1). At faith in Christ, the believer is born again, and the human spirit is "made alive" (Eph 2).
So, everyone is either:
born once and dies twice, or
born twice and dies once.
Hope this helps.
stovebolts
Member
I understand what you are saying and I have heard some things explained the way you understand them. No, I don't think it's a salvation issue, so please, if I don't see it the way you do, we can remain friends and brother in Christ.
Here is the way I understand it.
When God breathed into Adam, he became a "living soul" (nepesh). Prior to that, he was a soul just like every air breathing animal God created.
That "breath" which God blew into Adam was God's spirit (ruwach) and God's spirit is infused into every human being that is born onto this planet. I believe this is one reason why Solomon writes that when a soul dies, the body goes back to dust, and the spirit back to God who gave it.
As far as the Holy Spirit, that is a marriage between God's spirit, and our spirit. As far as Adam, I would say their marriage was strained.
Sorry for all the edits. I'm on a new tablet and it's sensitive....
Last edited:
Of course!
My understanding of Gen 2:7 is that God first created Adam's physical body from the "dust of the earth", meaning the chemicals that we know our bodies are made up of.
Then, God breathed into Adam's as yet inert body the breath of life (soul), at which point Adam became a "living soul", or a human being. Recall from James that a body without the soul is dead.
I don't think Adam was a real human being until God put the soul into him.
I haven't found any verse that says that the "breath of life" was God's spirit. I see it simply as God creating man's soul and placing it into the body, creating a living human being.
I've not heard anything about this marriage. I know that "on that day" that Adam sinned, he died immediately. I believe that was his human spirit. And all humans born are born "dead (spiritually) in sin" per Eph 2:1. When one believes in Christ, God regenerates that human spirit, and we are born again, or become new creatures (2 Cor 5:17).
n2thelight
Member
Scripture says satan will be turned to ashes from within, never to be anymore. ...
Please provide said verse. Thanks.
n2thelight
Member
Ezekiel 28 : 18-19
OK. Let's analyze.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities In the unrighteousness of your trade You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you; It has consumed you, And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you. 19 “All who know you among the peoples Are appalled at you; You have become terrified And you will cease to be forever.”’”
First, God says He has turned the devil to ashes on the earth. Are you taking that literally? That would be a shame.
Second, isn't it quite possible that the phrase "will cease to be forever" refers to the devil's influence over the earth? We know from 1 Jn 5:19 that the devil has deceived the whole world.
Third, we know from Rev 20:10 that the devil will be cast into the lake of fire to be "tormented night and day foreve and ever". If you take Eze 28:19 literally, then you have created a contradiction in the Bible with Rev 20:10.
The devil's influence will certainly be "no more", or will "cease" when he's thrown into the lake of fire.
But we also know that his influence will actually cease for the 1,000 years of the Millennial Rule of Christ.
Rev 20:3 - and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
These kinds of questions tend to get answered only in part because the question is such that does not consider all the aspects of humanity (what humans are made of).
The scriptures indicate part of us will die (body), part goes to be with the Lord or to the present hell (spirit) and part ceases to exist (soul). We are body, soul, spirit. And questions about destinies or destinations tend to focus in on only one of the three but are interpreted as if to apply to all three.
The scriptures indicate part of us will die (body), part goes to be with the Lord or to the present hell (spirit) and part ceases to exist (soul). We are body, soul, spirit. And questions about destinies or destinations tend to focus in on only one of the three but are interpreted as if to apply to all three.
It would be helpful to post the reference verses for your statement above.
Butch5
Member
But the fire of God is not ordinary fire.
31 And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name:
32 And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed.
33 And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.
34 And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time.
35 And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water. {ran: Heb. went}
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. (1Ki 18:31-39 KJV)
Butch5
Member
Actually, Gen 2:7 and Ecclesiastes 3 tells us what the component parts are and what happens to them at death. Gen 2:7 says that God created the man out of the dust of the earth, then breather into the man the breath/spirit of life and the man became a living soul. According to this passage a living soul is comprised of two parts, the man of dust and the breath/spirit of life. According to Ezekiel 37 the breath/spirit that gives life is God's and according to Ecc. 3 that breath/spirit returns to God when a man dies and the man returns to the dust.
n2thelight
Member
First-Yes I take that literally.....So ,question,where do you think the lake of fire will be?
Second-Nope,that happens during the millennium....
Third-He will cease to exist forever along with all other's who are thrown in there........
n2thelight
Member
Life and Death: The Two Polar Opposites
The apostle Paul summed up the whole matter of people’s reward for sin when he wrote:
ROMANS 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Could anything be clearer than this passage? The wages for sin is shown to be death, and eternal life is stated to be a gift from God, not something people already have. This is consistently expressed from Genesis to Revelation, notice:
MATTHEW 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it, (14) but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
JOHN 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
ROMANS 8:13
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
GALATIANS 6:8
The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.
PSALM 145:20 (NKJV)
The LORD preserves all who love Him, but all the wicked He will destroy.
PROVERBS 11:19
The truly righteous man attains life, but he who pursues evil goes to his death.
All these passages clearly describe the two separate destinies of the righteous and the unrighteous. The “righteous” are people who are in right-standing with God because they’ve accepted his sacrifice for their sins*, the “unrighteous” are those who are not in-right-standing with their Creator because they’ve rejected his offer of salvation. The former will inherit eternal life, whereas the latter will reap the wages of sin and be destroyed.
Yet those who adhere to the eternal torture doctrine mysteriously don’t accept this blatantly clear biblical truth. They don’t believe that the two polar opposites are life and death; they believe the two polar opposites are eternal life in heavenly bliss and eternal life in burning torment. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? They may not phrase it in such an open manner, but this is what they actually believe if we’re honest about it
There are only two choices Life or Death, one cannot have both.........
The apostle Paul summed up the whole matter of people’s reward for sin when he wrote:
ROMANS 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Could anything be clearer than this passage? The wages for sin is shown to be death, and eternal life is stated to be a gift from God, not something people already have. This is consistently expressed from Genesis to Revelation, notice:
MATTHEW 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it, (14) but small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
JOHN 3:16
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
ROMANS 8:13
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
GALATIANS 6:8
The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.
PSALM 145:20 (NKJV)
The LORD preserves all who love Him, but all the wicked He will destroy.
PROVERBS 11:19
The truly righteous man attains life, but he who pursues evil goes to his death.
All these passages clearly describe the two separate destinies of the righteous and the unrighteous. The “righteous” are people who are in right-standing with God because they’ve accepted his sacrifice for their sins*, the “unrighteous” are those who are not in-right-standing with their Creator because they’ve rejected his offer of salvation. The former will inherit eternal life, whereas the latter will reap the wages of sin and be destroyed.
Yet those who adhere to the eternal torture doctrine mysteriously don’t accept this blatantly clear biblical truth. They don’t believe that the two polar opposites are life and death; they believe the two polar opposites are eternal life in heavenly bliss and eternal life in burning torment. Sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? They may not phrase it in such an open manner, but this is what they actually believe if we’re honest about it
There are only two choices Life or Death, one cannot have both.........
n2thelight
Member
So...
1 Thessalonians 5:23 (KJV)
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
this is just a repeat of soul and body???
Or how about:
Matthew 10:28 (KJV)
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Both? Aren't they one in your interpretation?