Should Christians serve in the military?

[Stormcrow]

The bigger issue that needs to be addressed here is why people feel that Christians should not be part of government. I used to believe this, too, and the reason I did was because I believed Jesus would return at any moment to establish His kingdom on earth (in Jerusalem).

Thus all human government was evil and only His would be good and those who believed in Him would serve in His kingdom.

The problem with this view is that Christ has already attained the throne promised to Him by the Father and He sits on it now. As members of His body, we are to work in the world to redeem those in the world to Him. How different would the world be if devout Christians - people of integrity and strong moral character - ran all the universities, city halls, state houses, and federal offices?

The very idea that people who call themselves "Christian" believe such work is beneath the calling of Christians simply demonstrates the lack of love and respect such people have for the lost. We are called to serve each other and those who need Christ and serving in government is one way to do it.

 

[Stormcrow]

Not that simple.

We have Biblical precedent of God using essentially evil agents to visit otherwise righteous judgement on others.

But that hardly means that we are called to be evil agents.

Again, you premise assumes all government is evil even though God ordains it. Not allows it: ordains it.

Therefore, you can't help but arrive at the conclusion that all who serve in government are evil.

This is patently absurd on its face.

 

[jasoncran]

Hi Jason, I appreciate your calm and considered responses. I wonder if you don't mind sharing with me, from the bible, where and how you feel Christians are justified to enter into political life, or join the police force or military. I would really like to know where and how the bible gives us such guidance. Do you know that the bible teaches this, or is this just how you think Christians should be?

why? because if that is the case then why ask for tax returns get into the welfare line. or i will say it this way.

would you take an offering from a man YOU know killed another and stole his money. if all goverment is evil then what is the difference tween getting ss and medicare and the above? NOTHING.

 

[jasoncran]

will the arugments for if the bible doesnt spell it out please tell me why a christian cant own a slave? or why slavery is a sin when in the bible it says its ok but sets rules.

when you have figured out why its a sin to own fellow human being then you have made my argurment for being in politics.

 

[Drew]

Your whole premise is based entirely upon the incorrect notion that all government is evil.

I believe I have posted nothing that would justify the attribution of this position to me. Quite the contrary, in other threads I have argued at length that Christians are to be involved in government to try to shape it according to the kingdom of God model.

I think you are confusing me with another poster.

I see no difference between being a minister of a church, serving and protecting the spiritual well-being of people, and being a cop or soldier, serving and protecting the material well-being of people. Both are ordained by God and are noble callings.

I see no Biblical case for the use of violent force to protect people now that the Kingdom of God is here. Instead, I see Jesus preaching a message of pacifism as part of the kingdom package.

And I think the Biblical texts are with me. When confronting Pilate, how does Jesus explain the lack of use of force to protect Him (on the part of Jesus' followers). In Jesus' own words:

If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.â€

Jesus is saying that it is in the very nature of kingdom citizenship to reject the use of force, even to defend an innocent person (Jesus, obviously, in this case).

 

[Drew]

Again, you premise assumes all government is evil even though God ordains it. Not allows it: ordains it.

Therefore, you can't help but arrive at the conclusion that all who serve in government are evil.

This is patently absurd on its face.

I have clearly never embraced, explicitly or implicitly, the notion that government is evil. Again, there are indeed other posters who hold this view, and perhaps you are confusing me for them.

It is entirely logically coherent for a person to:

1. Embrace, participate in, and try to shape government;
2. Advocate that governments stop using force to achieve ends.

 

[Drew]

His victory on the cross was not aimed at doing away with human government. It was aimed at bringing all human government under His influence through the gospel. The very fact that He did not destroy Rome as an empire but used it to judge Israel is proof of this statement.

I agree. You have, for some reason, come to believe that I reject human government.

Nothing I have posted supports this conclusion.

 

[jasoncran]

drew. so define what too is lethal force and force when a cop must arrest an unwilling suspect. people are injured with non-lethal as well.

a broken arm can occur during that fight or other injuries. another problem with that soft jesus is how exactly do you reconcile that jesus in prophecy kills. he makes it clear in his parables and also sent the angel to kill herod.

if god judges like manner then how do you justify that we cant line up with godly reasons to judge men and protect men with force? yes until sin is gone there will always be the need for war and law enforcement. man will never be able to be holy this side of the cross until he comes back too finish his work.

 

[Drew]

The problem with this view is that Christ has already attained the throne promised to Him by the Father and He sits on it now. As members of His body, we are to work in the world to redeem those in the world to Him. How different would the world be if devout Christians - people of integrity and strong moral character - ran all the universities, city halls, state houses, and federal offices?

The very idea that people who call themselves "Christian" believe such work is beneath the calling of Christians simply demonstrates the lack of love and respect such people have for the lost. We are called to serve each other and those who need Christ and serving in government is one way to do it.

I entirely agree with this (although I might give people the benefit of the doubt re whether these people are simply misinformed, rather than that they lack "love and respect").

So we disagree on the military thing, but we agree on this more fundamental point - Jesus reigns now and calls us to mould all institutions in the world to the kingdom of God model.

 

[reba]

Not that simple.

We have Biblical precedent of God using essentially evil agents to visit otherwise righteous judgement on others.

But that hardly means that we are called to be evil agents.

I am thinking about years of Sunday school lots of guys in the OT were warriors Joshua, samson, david come to mind quickly they are not evil agents... God was on the Throne in OT days

 

[reba]

The Ailed forces that liberated the concentration camps were not agents of evil....

Not doing some thing to stop the 'killing fields " was some form of evil.

 

[Tri Unity]

why? because if that is the case then why ask for tax returns get into the welfare line. or i will say it this way.

would you take an offering from a man YOU know killed another and stole his money. if all goverment is evil then what is the difference tween getting ss and medicare and the above? NOTHING.

[Removed by staff. 2.5: Respect each others' opinions. Address issues, not persons or personalities. Give other members the respect you would want them to give yourself. ]

BTW, I do not use the word "beast" derogatively. I do not think governments are "evil"; as they are "ministers of God" (Romans 13) who perform a role of establishing laws to allow Christians to practice righteousness unhindered. God had ordained Governments to this role with or without our help. I use the word "beast" because it is the word the bible uses to describe governments. This position you have of encouraging Christians to become part of the beast is completely foreign to the Gospel of Christ. There are NO scriptures that tell us to do this, or even that it is OK to do this.

Tri

 

[Tri Unity]

Not doing some thing to stop the 'killing fields " was some form of evil.

This is dangerous thinking. By extention God is evil because He does not prevent suffering. One needs to be careful about using such strong emotions in responses that attributes "evil" falsley.

 

[Stormcrow]

By extention God is evil because He does not prevent suffering.

God expects us to prevent it. When we don't, that's evil. That was the point I believe reba made.

 

[Stormcrow]

I take it that you do not have any biblical support for Christians joining the army, or joining politics, or the police force, or any other job that voluntarily aligns himself with the ideologies of the beast.

What a shameful, ridiculous statement that is to make: one that smears the name of every God-fearing man and woman serving in government to help and protect others!

I hope you don't plan to avail yourself of the services police and firefighters provide should your need for them ever arise. That would be hypocritical in the extreme to accept help from such sinners! But I have no doubt that someone with such a hateful and absurd view wouldn't have any problem adding hypocrisy to it. 2

 

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by Jasher
Pacifism often causes a delay in bad situations and makes them much much worse in the end.

Pacifism is the cowardly motivation behind appeasement: throwing others to the wolves first hoping to be eaten last.

A committed pacifist will watch his or her loved ones die before he will either beg for his worthless life or fight. In either case, pacifism is selfish, senseless, and cowardly when confronted with evil. And in every regard, it is every bit as evil as the evil it purports to oppose.

I'm no hawk. But I'm no dove, either.

Jesus said, "Blessed are the peace makers." He did not say, "Blessed are the peace lovers." The real peace makers are the people who put their lives on the line every day with a gun on their hip, or a rifle over their shoulder, to lay their lives down - if needed - to protect the innocent.

The world needs more Christians protecting freedom.

 

[Grazer]

Random story.

I was having a discussion with a guy in the pub a couple of years ago and he found out I was a Christian. He said "if I slap you in the face you have to turn the other cheek and let me hit the other one" I said "that's correct but you're making one massive assumption in your scenario". "Really? What's that" he said "You're assuming you can hit the first one" I replied

Jesus says if they hit you, you let them slap you again you don't retaliate in revenge. He says nothing about letting them hit you to begin with.

 

[jasoncran]

It appears this subject has disturbed you of "your calm and considered responses." I take it that you do not have any biblical support for Christians joining the army, or joining politics, or the police force, or any other job that voluntarily aligns himself with the ideologies of the beast.

BTW, I do not use the word "beast" derogatively. I do not think governments are "evil"; as they are "ministers of God" (Romans 13) who perform a role of establishing laws to allow Christians to practice righteousness unhindered. God had ordained Governments to this role with or without our help. I use the word "beast" because it is the word the bible uses to describe governments. This position you have of encouraging Christians to become part of the beast is completely foreign to the Gospel of Christ. There are NO scriptures that tell us to do this, or even that it is OK to do this. Regardless of what logic you try to persuade us with; these are your ideas alone, O' Peter, so get behind me Satan! (try not to get too sensative about such biblical language; I mean no disrespect).

Tri

then there are NO scriptures that CLEARLY condemn slavery either. its ok then to own a slave, jesus nor paul said that owning a slave(so as you long didnt hate them) is evil.

convulated? so when someone in your life whom god says the opposite of what is natural and you comply despite being fully able to harm and also do the same and yet deny that nature. you call me convulated?

so when my sister was raped i should just have praised the lord if that a baby in my pic is harmed just let it happen.? asking the goverment to the sin is just as doing that sin yourself. murder is bad and if god calls retalation by us bad then the so is the goverment via your reasoning. therefore we CANT ask the law to stop any crime.

 

[Tri Unity]

What a shameful, ridiculous statement that is to make: 2

Your chastisement is meaningless to anyone with a mustard seed of discernment. You just continue to use words thinking that they have purpose and meaning because you use so many of them. Try to stay within the confines of what is said. Do you have any scriptures that support your view or do you not?

 

[Tri Unity]

you call me convulated?

I said nothing of the sort. Can you back up your argument from scripture or can't you?