Should Christians serve in the military?

[westtexas]

Hold on, I didn't call anyone a sinner.

How about post 73?

 

[reba]

Was God able to stop hitler?

Yeah He did and He use the the military.... just like He used the Romans to destroy Jerusalem 70 ad

 

[reba]

God's Help! There once was a flood and everyone had reached safety except for one man.
He climbed to the top of his house with the water lapping at his feet.
A helicopter flew over his head and hung down a rope for him to climb, but the man was deeply religious and said, "It's alright! The Lord will save me!"
So the helicopter flew away. The water continued to rise and a boat came to him but, once again, the man shouted, "No! Go AWAY! the Lord will come and save me!" and, once again, the boat sped off.
The water was getting dangerously deep by now so the helicopter came back and, on cue, the man repeated, "I don't need saving! My Lord will come"
Reluctantly, the helicopter left.
The rain continued to pour, the water continued to rise and the man drowned.
At the gates of heaven, the man met St. Peter. Confused, he asked, "Peter, I have lived the life of a faithful man - why did my Lord not rescue me?"
St. Peter replied, "For pity sake! He sent you two helicopters and a boat!"
Author Unknown

 

[Butch5]

How about post 73?

That was a reply to Jason's post 71 which said,

Jasoncran---also does it make sense to ask men to sin so that you might live? hey want you are doing is a sin, but do sin so that i might live and eat.kay love you in christ. that makes no sense.

 

[Butch5]

Yeah He did and He use the the military.... just like He used the Romans to destroy Jerusalem 70 ad

How exactly do you know that?

 

[reba]

History tells us it is just that simple. Had God not wanted hitler stopped nothing could have stopped him... We ,mankind, are not more powerful than God. God used David to kill Goliath... God had David spare Saul's life. God used the Romans to kill Jesus that was not their plan it was God's. God used Samson and the jaw of a donkey to kill a thousand or so...

Is it a streach to believe He used the allied forces to stop hitler... to me it is not. I trust Him All the earth is His.

I believe He is as 'in touch' with our world today as He was in OT times. Maybe not just the same way but He is in control....

 

[Butch5]

History tells us it is just that simple. Had God not wanted hitler stopped nothing could have stopped him... We ,mankind, are not more powerful than God. God used David to kill Goliath... God had David spare Saul's life. God used the Romans to kill Jesus that was not their plan it was God's. God used Samson and the jaw of a donkey to kill a thousand or so...

Is it a streach to believe He used the allied forces to stop hitler... to me it is not. I trust Him All the earth is His.

I believe He is as 'in touch' with our world today as He was in OT times. Maybe not just the same way but He is in control....

While all of that may be true, it doesn't necessitate that God did it. Men are capable of doing evil.

 

[jasoncran]

This is an argument from silence. To say Jesus never told the centurians to leave the army is nothing more than an assumption. Just because the statement isn't recorded doesn't mean it wasn't said.



I didn't ask men to sin for me. I didn't ask men to join the military for me. God is more than capable of protecting me.

so when theres a riot in your town and or disaster. will you then NOT ask me or those in my office not to help or give out water or food?

the military does do more then you think. far more. when the residents loss power and water in new orleans it was the guard and reserves and army that protected the guys who repaired them and also went on patrols and detained the bad guys.

so when the happens dont ask for help and refuse to be aided and just trust god to supernaturally give you water. newflash god seldom uses supernatural means to do his will.

if being in the military is a sin then by logic you have called me a sinner. its clear that i serve.argument from silence? thanks so i can also use oral traditions that debunk your idea of pacifism as jesus was adressing a statement from one of the sages(rabbi shimmei) who taught eye for eye as a means to do justice against the romans.

show me in the original hebrew(hope you are all fluent) that eye for eye was a literal thing in that if an eye was injured it was repaid by injuring the assailants eye.

jews have idioms and saying and that is one of them. i have the link easily acessable and a favorite for this argument.

 

[jasoncran]

here this thebian legion and martyred for that faith. apperently this was in the era of the failing and weak church where there was no persecution but oh wait.

it was before the nicean council! and wait these guys were martyered. they were recruited. copts. hmm the coptic faith was after the rcc formed and was the first schizm. so a copt was also an egyptian i guess that believed.

http://www.bibleprobe.com/theban.html

Emperor, we are your soldiers but also the soldiers of the true God. We owe you military service and obedience, but we cannot renounce Him who is our Creator and Master, and also yours even though you reject Him. In all things which are not against His law, we most willingly obey you, as we have done hitherto. We readily oppose your enemies whoever they are, but we cannot stain our hands with the blood of innocent people (Christians). We have taken an oath to God before we took one to you, you cannot place any confidence in our second oath if we violate the other (the first). You commanded us to execute Christians, behold we are such. We confess God the Father the creator of all things and His Son Jesus Christ, God. We have seen our comrades slain with the sword, we do not weep for them but rather rejoice at their honour. Neither this, nor any other provocation have tempted us to revolt. Behold, we have arms in our hands, but we do not resist, because we would rather die innocent than live by any sin.''

why that is just satanic. they went to quell a rebellion even remained loyal and wouldnt sin and they pledged loyality to diocletian! yet they knew they would die. that is charachter.

i know my chaplain would agree with that statement. i had a similiar conversion on persecution from the army if we are made to marry gays.

 

[Codger]

Where would we find this information?

http://www.bibleprobe.com/theban.html

 

[Codger]

here this thebian legion and martyred for that faith. apperently this was in the era of the failing and weak church where there was no persecution but oh wait.

it was before the nicean council! and wait these guys were martyered. they were recruited. copts. hmm the coptic faith was after the rcc formed and was the first schizm. so a copt was also an egyptian i guess that believed.

why that is just satanic. they went to quell a rebellion even remained loyal and wouldnt sin and they pledged loyality to diocletian! yet they knew they would die. that is charachter.

i know my chaplain would agree with that statement. i had a similiar conversion on persecution from the army if we are made to marry gays.

Diocletian was the most evil Emperor of the Roman era. It is estimated that he martyred 450,000 Christians. Compare to Nero at 5,000 and Domitian at about 2,000. Eusebius' comments on his cruelty and the endless numbers of Christians that were beheaded under his reign. Eusebius was an eyewitness, but I'm at a loss as to how he escaped this himself.

 

[Codger]

Was God able to stop hitler?

God is able to stop any of the historical conquering riders on the white horse. The question is why doesn't He?

 

[Butch5]

http://www.bibleprobe.com/theban.html

Are you aware of any primary sorces? I've searched 38 volumes of church history and not located any mention of this event.

 

[Butch5]

so when theres a riot in your town and or disaster. will you then NOT ask me or those in my office not to help or give out water or food?

the military does do more then you think. far more. when the residents loss power and water in new orleans it was the guard and reserves and army that protected the guys who repaired them and also went on patrols and detained the bad guys.

so when the happens dont ask for help and refuse to be aided and just trust god to supernaturally give you water. newflash god seldom uses supernatural means to do his will.

if being in the military is a sin then by logic you have called me a sinner. its clear that i serve.argument from silence? thanks so i can also use oral traditions that debunk your idea of pacifism as jesus was adressing a statement from one of the sages(rabbi shimmei) who taught eye for eye as a means to do justice against the romans.

show me in the original hebrew(hope you are all fluent) that eye for eye was a literal thing in that if an eye was injured it was repaid by injuring the assailants eye.

jews have idioms and saying and that is one of them. i have the link easily acessable and a favorite for this argument.

Yes, it is an argument from silence. Additionally, I didn't say being in the military was a sin. I said it's not the Christian's place.

We can have all the straw man arguments in the world, the bottom line is that the use of force argument has "NO" support under the new covenant.

 

[Butch5]

God is able to stop any of the historical conquering riders on the white horse. The question is why doesn't He?

Would you agree then that He doesn't need the Christians help?

 

[Butch5]

http://www.bibleprobe.com/theban.html

I was able to find this St. Maurice. It seems there is some question regarding this event

 

[AirDancer]

Our Lord uses each of us in various ways and in various occupations to share His word with others.

Do you place limitations on the where & how & when He enables us to do His work?

 

[Butch5]

here this thebian legion and martyred for that faith. apperently this was in the era of the failing and weak church where there was no persecution but oh wait.

it was before the nicean council! and wait these guys were martyered. they were recruited. copts. hmm the coptic faith was after the rcc formed and was the first schizm. so a copt was also an egyptian i guess that believed.

http://www.bibleprobe.com/theban.html



why that is just satanic. they went to quell a rebellion even remained loyal and wouldn’t sin and they pledged loyality to diocletian! yet they knew they would die. that is character.

i know my chaplain would agree with that statement. i had a similar conversion on persecution from the army if we are made to marry gays.

If it's true, as there seems to be some question regarding its authenticity it doesn't support your argument. What some Christians may or may not have done doesn't change the what the church taught.

The apostle Paul taught the Corinthians that they should avoid adultery, however, we read later that there was a man in Corinth sleeping with his father's wife. Surely no one use this to say that Paul taught adultery. We've got 250 years of church writings and not a single writer advocates the use of violence, on the contrary they condemn it.

 

[Stormcrow]

They don't have defend themselves, they can trust God to do that.

And God ordained government and gave it the power of the sword to avenge evil!

I don't see anyone thumping their chest. Are you sure that it's not just the lack of Biblical support that is upsetting you?

The smug condescension from those who decry all government as "the kingdom of darkness" and "evil" and then imply that those who serve, with "the power of the sword" to protect the innocent, are "sinners" for serving said government is the self-righteous "chest thumping" I see coming from you and some others.

Read Romans 13 again before you self-righteously proclaim there is no Biblical support for those who wield the sword in defense of the innocent!

 

[Stormcrow]

Was God able to stop hitler?

He did. It's called "war" and it's waged by men with guns. It's an ugly business that nobody wants or likes, but then freedom isn't cheap just because it's free. Someone had to pay for your freedom with blood.

The least you could do is tip your hat in appreciation to those who shed their blood so you wouldn't have to. Such men and women were called by God to serve and for you to criticize their service is despicable.