Should/Do radical Christians exist?

[Classik]

Based on the 'English' language, being radical for Jesus Christ and taking Christ's teachings to extreme will make you live a self sacrificing life like Him. Not to be confused by taking Islam's teachings to extremes which will obviously make a Muslim a terrorist.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Based on the 'English' language, being radical for Jesus Christ and taking Christ's teachings to extreme will make you live a self sacrificing life like Him.

When you get a chance watch a documentary about the Westboro Baptists. Very radical, very self sacrificing. Completely devoid of, and unfamiliar with, the love and mercy of God if you ask me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

What would you call them if you were an unbeliever? What would you call them as a believer?

I don't know because I grew up in the church and have always had a respect for them. I have never been on the side of thinking they were nuts, or not of God.

 

[MarbleShooter]

I do believe Christian radicals exist,and I believe there are radicals of every organized religion, governmnet, etc. As its already posted, a radical is just someone who disagrees with the norm at its foundations. A radical Christian is relative to the denomination the Christian follows. Catholic Doctrine is radical to Protestant Doctrine and All Christian doctrine is radical to Judaism. Now when we talk about our society. A radical Christian is someone who goes against social norms or wants to change the social norms of the United States. So yes, they do exist.

 

[Classik]

I do believe Christian radicals exist,and I believe there are radicals of every organized religion, governmnet, etc. As its already posted, a radical is just someone who disagrees with the norm at its foundations. A radical Christian is relative to the denomination the Christian follows. Catholic Doctrine is radical to Protestant Doctrine and All Christian doctrine is radical to Judaism. Now when we talk about our society. A radical Christian is someone who goes against social norms or wants to change the social norms of the United States. So yes, they do exist.

You are right.
But we are supposed to be one.

 

[felix]

.. a radical is just someone who disagrees with the norm at its foundations.

Sorry, that's not the definition of being radical. Refer #18.

 

[felix]

When you get a chance watch a documentary about the Westboro Baptists. Very radical, very self sacrificing. Completely devoid of, and unfamiliar with, the love and mercy of God if you ask me.

While I don't agree with every single thing about Westboro Baptists, but in general, I don't see anything wrong is what they say and preach.

If we have the same Spirit of God, who annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah, then we will also have the same level of hatred of God.

(Prov 3:32) For the perverse person is an abomination to the LORD, But His secret counsel [is] with the upright.

If a perverse person is an abomination to my God, then he or she is an abomination to me as well for I have His Spirit.

I think in US's English, abomination means hatred not love, right?

I am not sure of who this 'United Sates's christian God' who is tolerant for homosexuality.

I was reading the wiki on Fred Phelps, pastor heading the WBC and I found something interesting.

In 1997, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote a letter to Hussein praising his regime for being, in his opinion, "the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets". Furthermore, he stated that he would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to "preach the Gospel" for one week. Saddam granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to Iraq to protest against the U.S. The WBC members stood on the streets of Baghdad holding signs condemning both Bill and Hillary Clinton, as well as anal sex.

Quite interesting!

In the mean time, Bush invaded Iraq on the grounds that God said to him.

Who is this United State's God who spoke with Bush to invade Iraq, the only country to allow gospel to the preached publicly?

Invading Iraq killed 100,000 civilians and now a closed country for Gospel. But this very war costed 3 trillion USD and brought US to it's knees.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

While I don't agree with every single thing about Westboro Baptists, but in general, I don't see anything wrong is what they say and preach.

That's why I used them as the example. They are actually very sound Biblically (in general), yet they fail miserably to reflect the love and mercy of God. Radical when defined as self sacrificing and uncompromising is not all by itself a good thing. They prove that all too well.

If we have the same Spirit of God, who annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah, then we will also have the same level of hatred of God.

(Prov 3:32) For the perverse person is an abomination to the LORD, But His secret counsel [is] with the upright.

If a perverse person is an abomination to my God, then he or she is an abomination to me as well for I have His Spirit.

I think in US's English, abomination means hatred not love, right?

No. It means 'detestable'. Sin is sin, but there are some sins that are simply detestable to a Holy God. Unnatural relations is one of them, but so are "17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers." (Proverbs 6:17-19 NIV1984)

I am not sure of who this 'United Sates's christian God' who is tolerant for homosexuality.

Don't confuse tolerance with long suffering. Long suffering is a quality of God that suffers long in the face of detestable things and the people who do them, in the hope they will come to repentance. Love and mercy gives time and space for evil people to come to their senses and seek forgiveness. A gospel that lacks long suffering, mercy, and patience is a deceptive, worldly gospel that does not come from God. It looks like it does, but it does not.

I was reading the wiki on Fred Phelps, pastor heading the WBC and I found something interesting.

In 1997, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote a letter to Hussein praising his regime for being, in his opinion, "the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets". Furthermore, he stated that he would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to "preach the Gospel" for one week. Saddam granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to Iraq to protest against the U.S. The WBC members stood on the streets of Baghdad holding signs condemning both Bill and Hillary Clinton, as well as anal sex.

Quite interesting!

In the mean time, Bush invaded Iraq on the grounds that God said to him.

Who is this United State's God who spoke with Bush to invade Iraq, the only country to allow gospel to the preached publicly?

Invading Iraq killed 100,000 civilians and now a closed country for Gospel. But this very war costed 3 trillion USD and brought US to it's knees.

I don't care if Phelps surrendered his "body to the flames" because, as in his case, according to scripture, to "have not love" is to be nothing and to "gain nothing" (1 Cor. 13:2 NIV1984). Don't be deceived by the radical, but misguided rant of the Westboro Baptists. The words might be accurate, but the heart is far from God in that form of radicalism.

 

[Tina]

I was reading the wiki on Fred Phelps, pastor heading the WBC and I found something interesting.

In 1997, before the fall of Saddam Hussein during the Iraq War, Phelps wrote a letter to Hussein praising his regime for being, in his opinion, "the only Muslim state that allows the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ to be freely and openly preached on the streets". Furthermore, he stated that he would like to send a delegation to Baghdad to "preach the Gospel" for one week. Saddam granted permission, and a group of WBC congregants traveled to Iraq to protest against the U.S. The WBC members stood on the streets of Baghdad holding signs condemning both Bill and Hillary Clinton, as well as anal sex.

That is what I'd call a perfect example of fanatic Christians. Who are they to condemn Bill and Hillary Clinton? Jesus did not even condemn the women with five husbands !

In the mean time, Bush invaded Iraq on the grounds that God said to him.

Who is this United State's God who spoke with Bush to invade Iraq, the only country to allow gospel to the preached publicly?

Preached what gospel? I do not know of any gospel that promotes condemnation of the US and its presidents, do you ??

It is better not to preach any gospel at all than to preach such a man-centred "gospel" based on hidden agenda that disgraces Christianity.

 

[jasoncran]

ah yes this felix that hates the united states.

man i wish some would learn what eye for eye meant to the jews and learn what the sages taught.

it helps when you considered english is so limited and cant express hebrew idioms well. this is another reason why i go to the sages and chabad.org to clarify.
http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_mishpatim.html

so at least learn what the argument was then and why jesus didnt quote the torah at all he was quoting this rabbi!

 

[felix]

That's why I used them as the example. They are actually very sound Biblically (in general), yet they fail miserably to reflect the love and mercy of God. Radical when defined as self sacrificing and uncompromising is not all by itself a good thing. They prove that all too well.

Quick Question:
Does God loves Homosexual person?

• If Yes, then, that is not the God of Paul who wrote Romans 1 for God delivers such perverted people for destruction.
• If No, then how am I supposed to reflect God's love when God Himself does not love such a person?

No. It means 'detestable'. Sin is sin, but there are some sins that are simply detestable to a Holy God. Unnatural relations is one of them, but so are "17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, 18 a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, 19 a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers." (Proverbs 6:17-19 NIV1984)

abom·i·na·tion noun \ə-ˌbä-mə-ˈnā-shən\
1 something abominable
2 extreme disgust and hatred : loathing
- merriam-webster.com

From what I understand, abomination is more than hatred which includes disgust.

Don't confuse tolerance with long suffering. Long suffering is a quality of God that suffers long in the face of detestable things and the people who do them, in the hope they will come to repentance. Love and mercy gives time and space for evil people to come to their senses and seek forgiveness. A gospel that lacks long suffering, mercy, and patience is a deceptive, worldly gospel that does not come from God. It looks like it does, but it does not.

Long-suffering is patience, which means, there is a hope for we are waiting patiently for something to happen. While tolerance is something that there isn't any hope of turning back for we aren't waiting for anything - we just tolerate it.

Based on Romans 1, homosexuality is not supposed to be long suffering. Neither it should be tolerated because, Homosexuality is from God delivered upon them as a punishment. If you can read Romans 1 from v18, you can understand better about the nature of a loving and merciful God who delivers His wrath to those people and how Paul describes about homosexuals.

Also, you missing the important part in gospel: The coming judgement which causes fear and trembling.

(Acts 24:24-25) And after some days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, he sent for Paul and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. Now as he reasoned about righteousness, self-control, and the judgment to come, Felix was afraid and answered, "Go away for now; when I have a convenient time I will call for you."

I don't care if Phelps surrendered his "body to the flames" because, as in his case, according to scripture, to "have not love" is to be nothing and to "gain nothing" (1 Cor. 13:2 NIV1984). Don't be deceived by the radical, but misguided rant of the Westboro Baptists. The words might be accurate, but the heart is far from God in that form of radicalism.

How can you label someone to have not love, when they have cared for those souls by taking every effort in warning them of the coming judgement and how abominable their sins are to God.

God does hate homosexuals and it's very Biblical. Telling someone how abominable their sins are and how God hates them because of their abominable sins and warning them, is not something unbiblical.

People who had not warned them of their destructive ways and never told how hateful God is on them for their sins, are the people who have no love of God and have not known God.

 

[felix]

That is what I'd call a perfect example of fanatic Christians. Who are they to condemn Bill and Hillary Clinton? Jesus did not even condemn the women with five husbands !

Jesus Christ did not condemn the woman because, she was willing to drink the living water and eagerly waiting for the Messiah.

This does not mean Jesus did not condemn: Luke 10:13 - he condemned entire cities - Chorazin, Bethsaida. There are also several others like scribes and Pharisees (Luke 11:44) who where condemned.

Preached what gospel? I do not know of any gospel that promotes condemnation of the US and its presidents, do you ??

It is better not to preach any gospel at all than to preach such a man-centred "gospel" based on hidden agenda that disgraces Christianity.

I am not aware of your gospel that does not condemn people or nation for wrong doings but I am sure WBC are preaching the same gospel as John the baptist who condemned Herod for wrong relationship and the gospel which was preached by Paul for which the governor feared.

 

[theLords]

Jesus Christ did not condemn the woman because, she was willing to drink the living water and eagerly waiting for the Messiah.

This does not mean Jesus did not condemn: Luke 10:13 - he condemned entire cities - Chorazin, Bethsaida. There are also several others like scribes and Pharisees (Luke 11:44) who where condemned.



I am not aware of your gospel that does not condemn people or nation for wrong doings but I am sure WBC are preaching the same gospel as John the baptist who condemned Herod for wrong relationship and the gospel which was preached by Paul for which the governor feared.

You know, I'm not too surprised that you identify with the Westboro Baptist "Church"... I hope that if you realized they lack the fruits of the Spirit that you would change your stance, though. No where in the Gospel of Christ is "hate" preached (God hates "fags" or "soldiers" or the USA or Israel) is what WBC preaches.

 

[felix]

ah yes this felix that hates the united states.

(Luke 13:34) " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her brood under [her] wings, but you were not willing!

One of the key reasons why prophets are killed in Jerusalem repeatedly is because they spoke the word of God against her and warned them about God's judgement on them.

So, if I warn US, then I hate US? good! No wonder Christ was even hated by his own people.

 

[felix]

You know, I'm not too surprised that you identify with the Westboro Baptist "Church"... I hope that if you realized they lack the fruits of the Spirit that you would change your stance, though. No where in the Gospel of Christ is "hate" preached (God hates "fags" or "soldiers" or the USA or Israel) is what WBC preaches.

How about Romans 1:18-32 which basically says, homosexuality is 'from God' as a punishment 'without excuse'.

(Jude 1:6-7) as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Is the vengeance of eternal fire not included in gospel of Christ?

If God loves those people, why is He condemning them? Is He a double standard God?

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit [who is] in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which [temple] you are. (1Cor 6:18-19,1Cor 3:17)

Is 'God destroying the people who are involved in sexual immorality' not included in the Gospel of Christ?

(Prov 3:32) For the perverse person is an abomination to the LORD

 

[theLords]

How about Romans 1:18-32 which basically says, homosexuality is 'from God' as a punishment 'without excuse'.

(Jude 1:6-7) as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Is the vengeance of eternal fire not included in gospel of Christ?

If God loves those people, why is He condemning them? Is He a double standard God?

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit [who is] in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which [temple] you are. (1Cor 6:18-19,1Cor 3:17)

Is 'God destroying the people who are involved in sexual immorality' not included in the Gospel of Christ?

(Prov 3:32) For the perverse person is an abomination to the LORD

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

You can align yourself with the Westboro Baptist "Church", as for me, I'm out.

 

[Tina]

Jesus Christ did not condemn the woman because, she was willing to drink the living water and eagerly waiting for the Messiah.

And you (in agreement with WBC) assume that Bill & Hillary Clinton are hopelessly lost and therefore deserve to be condemned.

This does not mean Jesus did not condemn: Luke 10:13 - he condemned entire cities - Chorazin, Bethsaida. There are also several others like scribes and Pharisees (Luke 11:44) who where condemned.

All Jesus said was "Woe to you" ... and you take it to mean Jesus was condemning.

I am not aware of your gospel that does not condemn people or nation for wrong doings but I am sure WBC are preaching the same gospel as John the baptist who condemned Herod for wrong relationship and the gospel which was preached by Paul for which the governor feared.

If that's your interpretation of the gospel, then not just the US, but all other nations and people of the earth will have to be "condemned" for wrong doings.


"Condemn" is an extreme word and the wrong word to use against wrong-doings.

I am not aware of either John or Paul "condemning" anyone for anything. You should study the definitions of "condemn" and "woe to you".


http://concordances.org/greek/2613.htm


<SUP id=en-NIV-24427 class=versenum></SUP>

 

[jasoncran]

(Luke 13:34) " O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen [gathers] her brood under [her] wings, but you were not willing!

One of the key reasons why prophets are killed in Jerusalem repeatedly is because they spoke the word of God against her and warned them about God's judgement on them.

So, if I warn US, then I hate US? good! No wonder Christ was even hated by his own people.

uh, no why ? because we may call them repent but NOT JUDGE them as damned.

remember we dont know mens hearts.

and some of them pharisees repented and we will see them in heaven.

see this verse here.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts 2&version=KJV

3000 of them repented.

so if your children sin are you going to tell them one time to repent ?

and the news doesnt tell the whole story, they will lie to make it seem worse or better so that You WILL BUY THE MAGAZINE OR PAPER.

SO IF someone does that to you and i condemn thee a sinner dont take offense. just repent.

 

[jasoncran]

so felix has the power to save and condemn men and women based on what?

judge not lest ye be judged.jesus could condemn because hes GOD. we arent.

 

[felix]

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Not sure why you said this, but I assume it's a reply to what I said 'Homosexuality is from God as a punishment'.

True, God does not tempt them to do those things (as you read in Romans 1:18-32). However, God delivers them to such abominable things because of their own desires and not wanting to come to Christ inspite of knowing who Christ is.

Romans 5:8
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

(Rom 5:9) Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

Who is 'we' referring to? the next verse: all who are justified by His blood & saved from wrath

So, please do not refer Romans 5:8 to anyone who is not justified by His blood. esp., homosexuals who continue in their abominations.

You can align yourself with the Westboro Baptist "Church", as for me, I'm out.

Nope. I don't align myself with any worldly church. I align myself with Christ.