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Should/Do radical Christians exist?

And you (in agreement with WBC) assume that Bill & Hillary Clinton are hopelessly lost and therefore deserve to be condemned.


Their fruits are bitter. I wouldn't say 'hopelessly' lost because they still have some hope until their death.

All Jesus said was "Woe to you" ... and you take it to mean Jesus was condemning.

I just hinted those verse hoping that you will read further in context.

(Luke 10:13-15) " Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades.

After a series of woes!
(Luke 11:51) "from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

Bringing down to hades and required of this generation (70 AD) are Christ condemning them.

If that's your interpretation of the gospel, then not just the US, but all other nations and people of the earth will have to be "condemned" for wrong doings.


"Condemn" is an extreme word and the wrong word to use against wrong-doings.

I am not aware of either John or Paul "condemning" anyone for anything. You should study the definitions of "condemn" and "woe to you".


http://concordances.org/greek/2613.htm


<SUP id=en-NIV-24427 class=versenum></SUP>

(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
 
so felix has the power to save and condemn men and women based on what?

Quite curious to know where did I say that?

Anyway, I can say that no one needs to condemn them because they are already condemned.

(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

judge not lest ye be judged.jesus could condemn because hes GOD. we arent.

(John 3:17) "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The problem is the next verse which I stated earlier - They are already condemned.
 
Quite curious to know where did I say that?

Anyway, I can say that no one needs to condemn them because they are already condemned.

(John 3:18) "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.



(John 3:17) "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

The problem is the next verse which I stated earlier - They are already condemned.
you misunderstand what he said, its called solo scriptura.

its damned only if you dont repent.

so instead you stand as judge with the wbc when they gleefully do this

Thank God for IEDs killing American soldiers in strange lands every day. WBC rejoices every time the Lord God in His vengeance kills or maims an American soldier with an Improvised Explosive Device (IED). "The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked" (Ps. 58:10). This nation bombed and raided the Westboro Baptist Church, and now the Holy God that Inhabits Eternity is repaying those heinous acts with His retaliatory wrath; "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Rom. 12:19). To most effectively cause America to know her abominations (Ez. 16:2), WBC will picket the funerals of these Godless, fag army American soldiers when their pieces return home. WBC will also picket their landing spot, in Dover, Delaware early and often

from this place

http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=103703

and that contradicts what god said about the death of the sinner!
ezekiel 18
<SUP>23</SUP>Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

and in two peter 3
<SUP>9</SUP>The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

im sad when sinners die. i dont take joy in that. man i need a savior whom i am to think that they deserve death. i do as well

now then for if one is going to quote romans one and speak of that sin. then at least quote the whole darn thing.
<SUP>1</SUP>Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

<SUP id=en-KJV-27933 class=versenum>2</SUP>(Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
<SUP id=en-KJV-27934 class=versenum>3</SUP>Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
<SUP id=en-KJV-27935 class=versenum>4</SUP>And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
<SUP id=en-KJV-27936 class=versenum>5</SUP>By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
<SUP id=en-KJV-27937 class=versenum>6</SUP>Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
<SUP id=en-KJV-27938 class=versenum>7</SUP>To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27939 class=versenum>8</SUP>First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27940 class=versenum>9</SUP>For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;
<SUP id=en-KJV-27941 class=versenum>10</SUP>Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27942 class=versenum>11</SUP>For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;
<SUP id=en-KJV-27943 class=versenum>12</SUP>That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27944 class=versenum>13</SUP>Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27945 class=versenum>14</SUP>I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27946 class=versenum>15</SUP>So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27947 class=versenum>16</SUP>For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27948 class=versenum>17</SUP>For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27949 class=versenum>18</SUP>For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
<SUP id=en-KJV-27950 class=versenum>19</SUP>Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27951 class=versenum>20</SUP>For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
<SUP id=en-KJV-27952 class=versenum>21</SUP>Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27953 class=versenum>22</SUP>Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
<SUP id=en-KJV-27954 class=versenum>23</SUP>And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27955 class=versenum>24</SUP>Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
<SUP id=en-KJV-27956 class=versenum>25</SUP>Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27957 class=versenum>26</SUP>For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
<SUP id=en-KJV-27958 class=versenum>27</SUP>And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
<SUP id=en-KJV-27959 class=versenum>28</SUP>And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
<SUP id=en-KJV-27960 class=versenum>29</SUP>Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
<SUP id=en-KJV-27961 class=versenum>30</SUP>Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
<SUP id=en-KJV-27962 class=versenum>31</SUP>Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: <SUP id=en-KJV-27963 class=versenum>32</SUP>Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

so it cant just be gays who deserve death. its covers all sin.
 
jasoncran, as I already stated, I don't completely align myself with WBC as I don't know completely about them. However, they did a wonderful job of taking media attention and preached God's anger on all sinful people who does abominable things which no other church did.

Also, I was referring about people who continue in their homosexual lifestyle who cannot be a believer who are already condemned. I am not referring about people who repented and became a believer who are ofcouse not condemned.

Comparing God's judgment and warning people is not their judgment but preaching God's judgment.

  • Is 9/11 happened without the knowledge of God?
  • Is sub-prime / financial collapse of 2008 happened without the knowledge of God?

God gives a clear description of what will happen if they don't obey His commandments. There is nothing wrong in reminding people about His judgement if they follow in wrong ways.

Regarding the death of sinner, yes, I agree that God is not happy about it and He wants to save everyone.

There are also other sins deserving death but homosexuality is not just a sin but a punishment which God Himself delivered them into such a thing.

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
 
All Jesus said was "Woe to you" ... and you take it to mean Jesus was condemning.

A statement like this is systemic and apt to disregard the reality of the word. We now call black as white and white black. There is no greater condemnation than to fall under the "WOE TO."

Woe to...means it would have been better to not have been born at all.
 
Comparing God's judgment and warning people is not their judgment but preaching God's judgment.
Don't misunderstand. The argument is not about their stance on homosexuality. Many, many Christians agree with that. It is the merciless and cruel way they share the message that makes them radical.


There is nothing wrong in reminding people about His judgement if they follow in wrong ways.
Yes there is when you do not do it "with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15 NIV1984). They have no gentleness, no compassion, no respect for unbelievers when they testify to the judgment of God. None. They have no fruit. And that is how you discern wolves from sheep. You can not say the right words (about the judgment, for example) but then not walk in the qualities of the fruit of the Spirit (peace, compassion, gentleness, etc.) and expect to be pleasing to God. Jesus warns us to stay away from these kinds of false prophets. They are in fact in danger of hell fire themselves. We are warned, you won't be able to pick grapes from those thorn bushes.

Their brand of radicalism is condemned for the simple fact they believe many right things, and even speak about them, but do not 'do' the qualities of the Spirit. Until they repent they themselves will be among the Matthew 7 crowd trying to enter the kingdom on the merit of their ministry works, but Christ will condemn them for their lawlessness.
 
I have heard some Christians say: "I am a radical for Jesus". That's sorta religious extremism!

A friend of mine (now late) who was a musician had an album. One of the songs says: Radical For Jesus.


Is it right to be a radical Christian (in the context of extremism or whatever they have in mind for saying that)?


Here I stand


Sold out....the whole route, born again, bible believing, Spirit Filled, God fearing, Jesus Loving Christian

Call me a fundamentalist
Call me a radical

just don't call me late for dinner
 
Here I stand


Sold out....the whole route, born again, bible believing, Spirit Filled, God fearing, Jesus Loving Christian

Call me a fundamentalist
Call me a radical

just don't call me late for dinner

wow! CraigDavid...sorry, craigmn3
 
Don't misunderstand. The argument is not about their stance on homosexuality. Many, many Christians agree with that. It is the merciless and cruel way they share the message that makes them radical.



Yes there is when you do not do it "with gentleness and respect" (1 Peter 3:15 NIV1984). They have no gentleness, no compassion, no respect for unbelievers when they testify to the judgment of God. None. They have no fruit. And that is how you discern wolves from sheep. You can not say the right words (about the judgment, for example) but then not walk in the qualities of the fruit of the Spirit (peace, compassion, gentleness, etc.) and expect to be pleasing to God. Jesus warns us to stay away from these kinds of false prophets. They are in fact in danger of hell fire themselves. We are warned, you won't be able to pick grapes from those thorn bushes.

Their brand of radicalism is condemned for the simple fact they believe many right things, and even speak about them, but do not 'do' the qualities of the Spirit. Until they repent they themselves will be among the Matthew 7 crowd trying to enter the kingdom on the merit of their ministry works, but Christ will condemn them for their lawlessness.

As I mentioned in #44, I honestly don't know much about them (WBC), so I would not align with them.

I do agree with what you say in gentleness and compassion etc.. But you must also understand that's not always the case. We must take whip when we had to esp. when something is within the church.

The churches should have taken a whip when CCLI came into existence, making church a marketplace by forcing to pay for every song they sing to God by projecting lyrics. Isn't it ridiculous to pay for a lyric to be sung in a church? or project the lyrics? or to give printed lyrics on paper to church? Unfortunately, church was sleeping and no one took the whip for making church a market place.
 
The churches should have taken a whip when CCLI came into existence, making church a marketplace by forcing to pay for every song they sing to God by projecting lyrics. Isn't it ridiculous to pay for a lyric to be sung in a church? or project the lyrics? or to give printed lyrics on paper to church?
What's ridiculous is operating a business that offers a service that costs you more money to produce than you could afford to support by yourself and then giving it away for free.


Unfortunately, church was sleeping and no one took the whip for making church a market place.
Yes, then we could all be printing all our own copies of music after we've laboriously transcribed the lyrics and music notation for each song...and secured the rights to do that, and to perform those songs when necessary to do that.

I like the idea of paying a nominal annual fee to someone who does that for you...and in a much better and accurate, and legal, way. CCLI is not radical...it's legal...and convenient. If you have a problem with Christian musicians having to be paid for what they produce and copyright take it up with their record producers.
 
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What's ridiculous is operating a business that offers a service that costs you more money to produce than you could afford to support by yourself and then giving it away for free.

You mean ridiculous like, what I do at churchsw.org and give for free.

Did God ask anyone to give or do anything more than what they have and can? Should the widow borrow to put more coins in the Temple?

Let me see what you have posted:

operating a business
(John 2:16) And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"
How about issuing a IPO for all churches and list it on stock exchange?

offers a service
Can you answer why CCLI isn't started as a non profit organization but as a private company if their goal is to offer service?

costs you more money to produce
Does it costs more money to get inspiration from God or a lyric/song/tune from God?

Yes, then we could all be printing all our own copies of music after we've laboriously transcribed the lyrics and music notation for each song...and secured the rights to do that, and to perform those songs when necessary to do that.

I like the idea of paying a nominal annual fee to someone who does that for you...and in a much better and accurate, and legal, way. CCLI is not radical...it's legal...and convenient. If you have a problem with Christian musicians having to be paid for what they produce and copyright take it up with their record producers.

How about carrying your English bible during medieval times in Europe?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about carrying your Bible in middle-eastern Muslim countries?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about preaching gospel in Saudi?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about worshiping God in Daniel times?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about not worshiping the beast of rev 13?
Sorry, that's illegal.

If you want to follow only what is legal, how about homosexuality, prostitution, abortion, and all legal abominations?

Next time, don't give me any 'legal' crap.

The Scripture and Word of God cannot be overridden by any law of land. So, if I singing a song for the Lord without paying CCLI, I worship illegally. And, all the rest who pay money to sing in churches, worship legally? Wow! What a scam! The worst thing is.. church pays for it without opposing. Who is this thief that comes in between the bride and the bridegroom?
 
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You mean ridiculous like, what I do at churchsw.org and give for free.

Did God ask anyone to give or do anything more than what they have and can? Should the widow borrow to put more coins in the Temple?

Let me see what you have posted:

operating a business
(John 2:16) And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"
How about issuing a IPO for all churches and list it on stock exchange?

offers a service
Can you answer why CCLI isn't started as a non profit organization but as a private company if their goal is to offer service?

costs you more money to produce
Does it costs more money to get inspiration from God or a lyric/song/tune from God?



How about carrying your English bible during medieval times in Europe?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about carrying your Bible in middle-eastern Muslim countries?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about preaching gospel in Saudi?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about worshiping God in Daniel times?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about not worshiping the beast of rev 13?
Sorry, that's illegal.

If you want to follow only what is legal, how about homosexuality, prostitution, abortion, and all legal abominations?

Next time, don't give me any 'legal' crap.

The Scripture and Word of God cannot be overridden by any law of land. So, if I singing a song for the Lord without paying CCLI, I worship illegally. And, all the rest who pay money to sing in churches, worship legally? Wow! What a scam! The worst thing is.. church pays for it without opposing. Who is this thief that comes in between the bride and the bridegroom?
Before I address all this, your argument seems to be based on some kind of scriptural grounds that no one is allowed to make their living from the gospel. So provide the scripture that teaches that and then let's go from there to determine how radical and out of order CCLI is, okay?
 
Yes, they should exist as being radical in the sense of advocating what you believe in as walking the walk and talking the talk should be that of every person who professes Christ as their Lord and Savior as we need to let that light of Christ shine through us for the purpose of ministering to the non-believers, but we also need to do this with love, compassion, temperance, tolerance and never never force our belief in Christ down someones throat as the so called Bible extremest try to do with their message of fire and brimstone and try to scare you into believing, which usually causes one to run further away from God.
 
What's ridiculous is operating a business that offers a service that costs you more money to produce than you could afford to support by yourself and then giving it away for free.



Yes, then we could all be printing all our own copies of music after we've laboriously transcribed the lyrics and music notation for each song...and secured the rights to do that, and to perform those songs when necessary to do that.

I like the idea of paying a nominal annual fee to someone who does that for you...and in a much better and accurate, and legal, way. CCLI is not radical...it's legal...and convenient. If you have a problem with Christian musicians having to be paid for what they produce and copyright take it up with their record producers.

The church is run as a worldly business...and makes a LOT of money. So why not pay for the services?
 
Felix you are wrong about God hating anyone as there is no scripture to support this. God does not hate the sinner for if he did then we would all be condemned because we would make ourselves liars if we said we have no sin found in us as everyone falls short at times, but grace is always there for us when we repent and never sin the same sin anymore, but if we do continue in that same sin then there is no more forgiveness for that sin and we will pay the consequences for whatever that sin brings about in our life here on earth, Hebrews 10:26.

God does not hate the sinner, but it is the sinners actions that separate themselves from that love that God has for them and wants to give them if they would only turn from their abominations and confess Christ in all truths.

Many like to pick and choose which parts of Gods word they want, which is called fence riding, but will come against the other parts of His word that actually condemn them by their own actions, which causes their own self to be separated from God. Many that are homosexual claim to be a Christian and even go to Church thinking they are born-again, but if they truly are then they would also know that what they are doing is an abomination to God that actually separates themselves from the love He has for them.

Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
 
You mean ridiculous like, what I do at churchsw.org and give for free.

Did God ask anyone to give or do anything more than what they have and can? Should the widow borrow to put more coins in the Temple?

Let me see what you have posted:

operating a business
(John 2:16) And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"
How about issuing a IPO for all churches and list it on stock exchange?

offers a service
Can you answer why CCLI isn't started as a non profit organization but as a private company if their goal is to offer service?

costs you more money to produce
Does it costs more money to get inspiration from God or a lyric/song/tune from God?



How about carrying your English bible during medieval times in Europe?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about carrying your Bible in middle-eastern Muslim countries?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about preaching gospel in Saudi?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about worshiping God in Daniel times?
Sorry, that's illegal.

How about not worshiping the beast of rev 13?
Sorry, that's illegal.

If you want to follow only what is legal, how about homosexuality, prostitution, abortion, and all legal abominations?

Next time, don't give me any 'legal' crap.

The Scripture and Word of God cannot be overridden by any law of land. So, if I singing a song for the Lord without paying CCLI, I worship illegally. And, all the rest who pay money to sing in churches, worship legally? Wow! What a scam! The worst thing is.. church pays for it without opposing. Who is this thief that comes in between the bride and the bridegroom?


so we should pass laws forcing sinners into the kindgom?

uh i need to do a thread on what the law was for and why it was given and you would be suprised the context of the heathen nations that it was meant to seperate isreal from.

think of it as rule of living in house with ones spouse. you love them and they have rules. in a nut shell that is what the law is for!
 
Before I address all this, your argument seems to be based on some kind of scriptural grounds that no one is allowed to make their living from the gospel. So provide the scripture that teaches that and then let's go from there to determine how radical and out of order CCLI is, okay?

Do you want a verse? Luke 10:2-11 - Told directly by Christ!

I know you will respond back with
(1Cor 9:14) In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. (NIV)

Really? Of course their publisher is a 32 billion $ company who also publish Satanic Bible and how can they publish something that will be against themselves as they need to have some sheep coverings.

(1Cor 9:14) Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel. (NKJV).

The correct translation is, those who preach the gospel should by the gospel. It means, if you preach the good news to others, first you must live by it.

Do you want proof? go a couple of verses back at v11,
(1Cor 9:11) If we have sown to you spiritual things, is it great if we shall reap your carnal things?

Paul also finished the verse like...
(1Cor 9:27) But I discipline my body and bring [it] into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.
which is exactly the same as 1Cor 9:14.

Neither the bishop in NT nor the prophets and priests must get paid for doing God's service:

As in 1Tim 3:4, A bishop must rule his own family well before taking care of the church - not get paid for doing it. If he is paid, he is just a hireling as in John 10:12-13, because he does not care for the sheep - if he see the wolf coming or his job is in trouble or if he is not paid.

Secondly, there is no such thing as a 'Pastor' leading the service after a seminary study. Pastor is nothing but 'Shepherd' or Pasturing the church and this role is given to Elders of the Church. These Elders are from the same locality who take care of the sheep and are not paid for doing this service for God. The Elders had their own work and they together with the church members met weekly as a church family. While I am not against paid Pastors (as I know some good Pastors who do a wonderful job full-time), but the concept itself is unbiblical.

If we take the OT times, God is against priest who teach for pay and prophets who prophesy for money:
(Mic 3:11) Her heads judge for a bribe, Her priests teach for pay, And her prophets divine for money. Yet they lean on the LORD, and say, "Is not the LORD among us? No harm can come upon us."
How many of these money minded people can we see today who teach God's word for a pay? and Prophesy for money? God is against them.
 
The church is run as a worldly business...and makes a LOT of money. So why not pay for the services?

Unfortunately, I am not speaking about the church you are referring to.
I am speaking about the bride of Christ who does not need to pay for speaking and rejoicing with her bridegroom, the Christ.
 
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