Should I Tithe Or Pay My Bills?

[iLOVE]

If you choose to tithe under the Law and do it with thanks to the Lord and I choose not to tithe as under the Law and give thanks to the Lord, we are not to judge each other. For our Master is one and the same Lord and He accepts us both and will cause both of us to stand. Romans 14:3-6

Dear Sister Deborah13,

The Holy Spirit only works by having faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., the finished work of Christ. If our faith in placed in anything else (Law) we sin. Anything that is not faith is sin. Paul says, when a Believer continues to do this they are now walking in the vanity of their mind (they have changed the salvation and sanctification process...this is dangerous) Ephesians 4:17. We tithe because we love Jesus. Do good and get good, or do bad and get bad was under the "Law". To grow in faith, we must grow in love—because the two always work together.

 

[Edward]

Sit under enough phony charismatic money grubbing preachers and after awhile you come out from under the lies.

Does that sound bitter and hard hearted to you, or honest?

People who hear bitter and hard hearted are probably still forking their money over to some preacher who preaches the tithe, that's all.

I'm all for giving to the poor. But I don't think God OWES me for doing so, no. Nor do I think there is a Divine Ponzi Scheme in play for me when doing so.

It sounds both brother.

God doesn't "owe" us for tithing, nor is it a ponzi scheme. Those who tithe for gain...better be careful.

 

[Wrg1405]

Dear Sister Deborah13,

The Holy Spirit only works by having faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., the finished work of Christ. If our faith in placed in anything else (Law) we sin. Anything that is not faith is sin. Paul says, when a Believer continues to do this they are now walking in the vanity of their mind (they have changed the salvation and sanctification process...this is dangerous) Ephesians 4:17. We tithe because we love Jesus. Do good and get good, or do bad and get bad was under the "Law". To grow in faith, we must grow in love—because the two always work together.

iLove I'm confiused by your comments. You say we tithe because we love Jesus but you also say we must tithe to show we love Jesus and if we don't we fall foul of Jesus, I could be wrong but just asking. For me you are saying that if I did not tithe then I'm wrong and I don't love Jesus and I will suffer some consequence, if so what? I agree that we give because we love Jesus. I do feel however that when Jesus talked about tithes it was to those that the tithe was commanded by God under the law. Anything that is not of faith is a sin, to me in the new covenant giving is off faith and not concerning the law to give.

 

[smaller]

If you choose to tithe under the Law and do it with thanks to the Lord and I choose not to tithe as under the Law and give thanks to the Lord, we are not to judge each other. For our Master is one and the same Lord and He accepts us both and will cause both of us to stand. Romans 14:3-6

IF the "tithe" is performed as an exercise to get more money it is an exercise of vanity. If the "tithe" is done to "pay God back" it is likewise vanity. If the tithe is done to pay off and avoid the supposed wrath and lack that one might experience it is likewise vanity. And any number of other twists and turns on the subject matter of external legalistic performances.

 

[smaller]

It sounds both brother.

God doesn't "owe" us for tithing, nor is it a ponzi scheme. Those who tithe for gain...better be careful.

And therein resides all issues of legalism. It comes with a price called guaranteed condemnation for non-performances. And judgment from those same who are performing to others they think are not.

 

[Wrg1405]

IF the "tithe" is performed as an exercise to get more money it is an exercise of vanity. If the "tithe" is done to "pay God back" it is likewise vanity. If the tithe is done to pay off and avoid the supposed wrath and lack that one might experience it is likewise vanity. And any number of other twists and turns on the subject matter of external legalistic performances.

I agree.

 

[Deborah13]

Dear Sister Deborah13,

The Holy Spirit only works by having faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross, i.e., the finished work of Christ. If our faith in placed in anything else (Law) we sin. Anything that is not faith is sin. Paul says, when a Believer continues to do this they are now walking in the vanity of their mind (they have changed the salvation and sanctification process...this is dangerous) Ephesians 4:17. We tithe because we love Jesus. Do good and get good, or do bad and get bad was under the "Law". To grow in faith, we must grow in love—because the two always work together.

Do you tithe by faith? I think you do. I don't tithe but give by faith. Both of us do as we do onto the Lord, with thanks.

 

[Wrg1405]

And therein resides all issues of legalism. It comes with a price called guaranteed condemnation for non-performances. And judgment from those same who are performing to others they think are not.

And we know there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

 

[iLOVE]

but you also say we must tithe to show we love Jesus and if we don't we fall foul of Jesus,

I never stated that. However, all faith is tested and will be tested. Greater faith will be tested more.

Christians are tested with the least in the Kingdom of God which is money.
Considering what Jesus has said here (Luke 16:9-13 NKJV), I think it would be difficult to overstate the significance of this down to earth, practical teaching, that applies to everyone. If a person cannot be trusted with money, and in any capacity, Jesus plainly says, he cannot be trusted with Salvation, i.e., "true riches." In view of the seriousness of what is being said, we would do well to heed carefully.

In these passages (Luke 16:9-13), Jesus is saying that irrespective of how loudly and how often we profess our Godliness, if it does not show up in our practical, every day living, and especially in the matters of money, and our responsibility toward others, our profession is vain. This statement is plain and clear, if we are unfaithful in these things. "Who will commit to our trust the true riches?"

 

[iLOVE]

Levels of faith: (many other examples in the bible)
Great faith - Matthew 8:5-10
Unfeigned faith - II Timothy 1:5
Wavering faith - James 1:5-7
Perfect faith - James 2:22
Rich faith - James 2:5
Full of faith - Acts 6:1-5
Little Faith - Matthew 6:25-34, Matthew 14:25-31
No faith - Mark 4:35-40

If love is not our motivation, whatever we give equals zero and amounts to nothing (1 Corinthians 13:3 NKJV). When we perform and try to meet the demands of the Law, we fall under the curse of trying to get God to “do” something (Galatians 3:10-14). The concept of giving and tithing is not based on money itself, it is about trust. When we give, it is no longer just giving money—it is authenticating our love and trust in God. Luke 16: 9-13 NKJV

 

[KevinK]

I would not want to run a deficit balance with God.

"Oh God, please let me win the lottery so I can pay you!"

Uh, no.

We are slaves in this world to money and that is because we labor in the flesh to survive.

God did not come here to take money or "test" us with it nor is God in "need" of cash, the last I heard anyway.

You misunderstand my intentions. I don't expect a thing back from tithing. Not a cent. I only wish to give to God what is already His. In fact I don't even need to understand why. If the Lord gives me an order, I intend to comply with it.

The only question is if it is still an order. I'm following the old covenant/new covenant debate with "interest".

 

[smaller]

And we know there is no condemnation for those in Christ.

That's also precisely WHY we should not put ourselves under the LAW. When we do that, such as in the "law" of tithing, we will be proved sinners regardless of how much we PAY. That is what the law does. It brings condemnation into us every single time and makes us question everything we do in order to be legal.

The problem is we are NEVER LEGAL to begin with. So this is the lesson of the law: That we are lawless in the flesh.

Nevertheless we have abundantly received Gods Mercy and Grace through Christ our Lord. We did not pay for that before or after salvation, nor can we add to or take away from His Work by paying or performing.

His Mercy, Grace and Love are everything there is and all that matters.

 

[smaller]

You misunderstand my intentions. I don't expect a thing back from tithing. Not a cent. I only wish to give to God what is already His. In fact I don't even need to understand why. If the Lord gives me an order, I intend to comply with it.

The only question is if it is still an order. I'm following the old covenant/new covenant debate with "interest".

I could write a LOT on this matter from personal experience because I spent a number of years in the charismatic/pentacostal realms after I was first saved and they were ALL very big on tithing.

I found their teachings to be nothing but lies in the end.

 

[reba]

I could write a LOT on this matter from personal experience because I spent a number of years in the charismatic/pentacostal realms after I was first saved and they were ALL very big on tithing.

I found their teachings to be nothing but lies in the end.

As a group i pretty much agree with you,,, BUT i know a great number of good folks who were part of that 'movement'

 

[smaller]

As a group i pretty much agree with you,,, BUT i know a great number of good folks who were part of that 'movement'

I certainly don't denigrate any believer. You know that. I have a huge number of friends who are still sitting under that garbage, still tithing. And most still waiting for their 100 fold return and beating themselves up for their lack of faith in not receiving it.

I'm OK with people doing what they perceive as lawful things. But you know my sights on this well enough by now. The conclusions of being sinners doesn't change under the law nor will paying the tithe alter the work of the law to prove us sinners. And some sinners get quite wealthy by preaching this nonsense.

That, I object to. To enriching charlatans. And have no problem pointing out that it's financial abuse of the sheep.

 

[Edward]

That's also precisely WHY we should not put ourselves under the LAW. When we do that, such as in the "law" of tithing, we will be proved sinners regardless of how much we PAY. That is what the law does. It brings condemnation into us every single time and makes us question everything we do in order to be legal.

The problem is we are NEVER LEGAL to begin with. So this is the lesson of the law: That we are lawless in the flesh.

Nevertheless we have abundantly received Gods Mercy and Grace through Christ our Lord. We did not pay for that before or after salvation, nor can we add to or take away from His Work by paying or performing.

His Mercy, Grace and Love are everything there is and all that matters.

Are you saying that there is no way to tithe without putting ourselves under the law?

 

[smaller]

Are you saying that there is no way to tithe without putting ourselves under the law?

If done under the law of tithing, then it's putting oneself under the law. And certainly don't stop there. There are a mountain of more laws than just that one to consider. We don't get to pick the ones we think we're going to get a payoff on and hollar hooray, I performed legally under that law, but ignored all the others.

 

[Edward]

If done under the law of tithing, then it's putting oneself under the law. And certainly don't stop there. There are a mountain of more laws than just that one to consider. We don't get to pick the ones we think we're going to get a payoff on and hollar hooray, I performed legally under that law, but ignored all the others.

That's what I thought. But, it doesn't have to be about the law, does it? I understand that the law was fulfilled by Jesus and we're under grace now. Tithing is in no way a lawful obligation now...But, churches do need money nowadays (airtime & so forth), so couldn't a believer still choose to give extra (like the ancient ways), and for convenience use the tithing protocol?

I mean, the way you sound...we're not allowed to tithe anymore, and I'm having a bit of a time wrapping my mind around that, all things considered.

 

[Edward]

And it's not about getting a payoff either. Except perhaps the, lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, as is written.

 

[smaller]

That's what I thought. But, it doesn't have to be about the law, does it? I understand that the law was fulfilled by Jesus and we're under grace now. Tithing is in no way a lawful obligation now...But, churches do need money nowadays (airtime & so forth),

Jets, mansions, art collections, a big glass Crystal Cathedral, television face time for some egomaniac. Oh yeah. God needs us to support all that...NOT. If I see Bob Tilton ONE more time on a television screen squinting, smiling and praying for money I think I'll puke. These people make me ill, they are so crooked, in the Name of Jesus, of course.

so couldn't a believer still choose to give extra (like the ancient ways), and for convenience use the tithing protocol?

Giving generously to the poor is a present reward, and the only avenue of real legitimacy in giving, and not out of law, but of simply seeing the needs of others and helping. The reward for that is in the now for our own hearts. There will be no monetary payback guarantee.

I mean, the way you sound...we're not allowed to tithe anymore, and I'm having a bit of a time wrapping my mind around that, all things considered.

You can put yourself under the law of tithing all you please. I'm just saying that there are other things to consider when it comes to LAW. We don't get to just take the parts we like and we certainly can't buy our way into favors with God, that much is certain. You know, slip Bob a few extra hundred so he can "mediate" a prayah of agreement to get our return on the investment.

I like watching Scrooge movies in all their variations around Christmas time cause Scrooge figured out that it just FELT GOOD in his own heart to GIVE. That's pretty much the whole lesson ain't it? Present reward. It grows on ya.