Should I Tithe Or Pay My Bills?

[Wrg1405]

Hebrews 7:8 NKJV
8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there He receives them, of whom it is witnessed that He lives.

In other words...I put my tithe in the box, mortal men take it out. But there He receives my tithe. Jesus Himself!

My understanding and reading indicates that he "receives them" is referring to Melchizedek. His parentage was not known or his death ever recorded, so,therefore he was still considered to be alive and so his priesthood. We know Melchizedek was the symbol of the Christ to come, who would establish a new priesthood, a Royal priesthood.

The parallel is being drawn between the Levitical priesthood that would die but the Royal Priesthood would not. The law would be fulfilled and a new covenant would established in Christ.

Melchizedek was the King of Salem and the priest of God. He brought out wine and bread to Abram and blessed him. Then Abram gave him the tithe. Gen14:18-20.

Abraham was not under the Mosaic law, he gave because he recognised he was a priest of God.
We should do the same, we are not under the law but give because we are under the Royal Prieshood which is Christ.

No disrespect meant but your quote in post 51 "Tithe means 10% gross. If you give 10% net it is considered leftovers the you refer see post 47" In post 47 you then quote Malachi and the consequences that you refer to your post in 47.

To me that is the law, Malachi was written to those under the law. To suggest that we must do the same otherwise we will suffer the same consequences does not sit right with me.

Jesus said to the rich young ruler who said that he had kept the law "Sell all you posses and give it to the poor"
Would you advocate the same?

Mal 3:8-10 are some of my favourite bible verses.
I would never want to rob God, I want to give to God.

But I do feel that to tell me that if I don't give 10% gross then I'm robbing God.

I actually give 10% net to the church but if I was to add up my monthly giving from my net to charities, gifts of money and food parcels to those who need it, buy new appliances for those who could not afford to replace but were needed I reckon it would go well beyond 10% gross. In fact after paying my taxes everythimg I give equates to 58% of my gross income.

It's not a simple equation of finances but a heart attitude.

As I said I don't wish cause offence or disrespect, I'm just expressing my viewpoint.

God bless you my friend

 

[Edward]

It seems to me that, OT tithe was a mandatory 10% giving of what was ours, and the NT instruction is that we ask how much we can keep, because it all belongs to Him...

...

 

[WIP]

On the one hand I read quite a bit about tithing 10% and yet Jesus also said, "Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, they have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:" Matthew 6:1-3 KJV

Maybe there's a difference between a tithe and an alm? I thought a tithe was part of the Mosaic Law applying to Old Testament Israel and as such was fulfilled by our Lord, Jesus Christ. What we give to our church or others today is an offering or in other words an alm. Paul seemed to speak of this in 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 NKJV;
Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given orders to the churches of Galatia, so you must do also: On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

 

[iLOVE]

Christians are tested with the least in the Kingdom of God which is money.
Considering what Jesus has said here (Luke 16:9-13 NKJV), I think it would be difficult to overstate the significance of this down to earth, practical teaching, that applies to everyone. If a person cannot be trusted with money, and in any capacity, Jesus plainly says, he cannot be trusted with Salvation, i.e., "true riches." In view of the seriousness of what is being said, we would do well to heed carefully.

In these passages (Luke 16:9-13), Jesus is saying that irrespective of how loudly and how often we profess our Godliness, if it does not show up in our practical, every day living, and especially in the matters of money, and our responsibility toward others, our profession is vain. This statement is plain and clear, if we are unfaithful in these things. "Who will commit to our trust the true riches?"

 

[for_his_glory]

Thanks Bill. Your reply reminded me of when I was the Pastor of the First Baptist Church in Turners Falls, MA. The parsonage was just down the Street from the church building. That situation was a magnet for honest folk that needed a little financial help, and free-loaders looking for a hand out. There were times that I gave out of my wallet more than I gave to the Church.

Chopper what you said here brought this thought to mind.
Tithing is not taught in the NT, but giving to help support your Pastor is taught in 1Timothy 5:17, 18. A pastor should never have to work outside his calling in order to support himself or his family if he has one. A pastors concentration needs to be on his studies and what he prepares to teach the congregation. Jesus gave us instruction in Matthew 25:35-40 on how we are to give and to give in love as love is the greastest commandment.

Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luke 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luke 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luke 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

1Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
1Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

 

[iLOVE]

Christians are tested with the least in the Kingdom of God which is money.
Considering what Jesus has said here (Luke 16:9-13 NKJV), I think it would be difficult to overstate the significance of this down to earth, practical teaching, that applies to everyone. If a person cannot be trusted with money, and in any capacity, Jesus plainly says, he cannot be trusted with Salvation, i.e., "true riches." In view of the seriousness of what is being said, we would do well to heed carefully.

In these passages (Luke 16:9-13), Jesus is saying that irrespective of how loudly and how often we profess our Godliness, if it does not show up in our practical, every day living, and especially in the matters of money, and our responsibility toward others, our profession is vain. This statement is plain and clear, if we are unfaithful in these things. "Who will commit to our trust the true riches?"

Faith shines bright when tested! Faith never retreats! Give me this mountain LORD - Joshua 14:12 NKJV

 

[Knotical]

Oh boy, you can begin such a war on words with that last sentence. Personally, I pray it does not start and derail this string but I will not go there at all. Tithing is not a salvation issue. Other than Abraham tithing a tenth of the spoils i don't recall the ten percent being a requirement.

And then as Chopper has pointed out here and in a few other strings, give because you feel the obligation and nothing goes into your Heavenly Treasure Box. God, the owner of everything does not need me or my money, setting a great precedent for we, who are to daily be conformed to Him.

The Father has awarded to me that I, likewise, can give to others, money, salvation, skills... everything. My wife, the Baptist Deacon's daughter has lived her entire life this way and I have lived this way, long before I was converted and just as I see the Ever Faithful Hand of God throughout my past I find Him right here every time I need Him. Over and over He saved my life at war and over and over we have had the money to pay our bills though we gave when it was needed elsewhere for the work our God has laid out.

What you are suggesting here is works based salvation and I will never try to cast Jesus into File Thirteen this way. Salvation and the maintenance thereof is entirely up to Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Now, when we come to God, He requires very little of us, confession with the mouth and repentance, that's all. AS for the record, ten percent has never covered what I have written on my check to the church and since My wife and I submit to our LORD we give, joyfully, whatever the Holy Spirit leads us to give and that ain't never been no paltry ten percent. WE open the pocket book and He takes what we need to give because when we give to Him there is no obligation... there is love and joy. And that is good stewardship. Giving because it is obligated is duty and duty is work and work is one of those four letter words when it is not performed with a joyful heart.

I pray God blesses your life with the joy He has blessed this family with.

Wow, I never said tithing was a salvation issue. I said everything that Jesus taught points to salvation. Tithing is a discipline issue, in this case regarding being a good steward.

 

[Chopper]

Ditto Chopper, it must be a veteran thing to love the God that once saved our bacon on a daily basis.

Ha Ha!! You've got that right old Buddy. Our Lord created a huge miracle on each maneuver, EYES IN THE BACK OF OUR HEADS.

 

[Wrg1405]

Tithing is not a salvation issue, being a good steward is a spiritual issue. We are saved by faith and not giving.
We were not called to give but to believe. Called to believe in Jesus. That's the first step on the level path that God promised us we (me and him) would walk on when we walk with him.

We are called to use what God has given us to help and bless others, there is no mistaking that

 

[Wrg1405]

Tithing is not a salvation issue, being a good steward is a spiritual issue. We are saved by faith and not giving.
We were not called to give but to believe. Called to believe in Jesus. That's the first step on the level path that God promised us we (me and him) would walk on when we walk with him.

We are called to use what God has given us to help and bless others, there is no mistaking that

 

[Wrg1405]

Ha Ha!! You've got that right old Buddy. Our Lord created a huge miracle on each maneuver, EYES IN THE BACK OF OUR HEADS.

That's what my mum used to say to me "I have eyes in the back of my head" I never found them as much as I looked for them.

 

[reba]

trust her we do have them...

 

[Wrg1405]

trust her we do have them...

Tell me about it. Even at 47 I'm still looking

 

[iLOVE]

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, justice, mercy, and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matthew 23:23 NKJV
(This places the seal of approval by Christ on the paying of tithes, even in the smallest matters, such as the tiny plants, but with a reminder that the "weightier matters" must not be neglected.) The weightier matters the Pharisees omitted have been taken from the words of the Prophet Micah 6:8 NKJV.

To me that is the law, Malachi was written to those under the law. To suggest that we must do the same otherwise we will suffer the same consequences does not sit right with me.

What happens if a Christian refuses to pay his tithes? God is Merciful and Gracious Benefactor; however, His Word implicitly says, "You are cursed with a curse..." (Mal. 3:9). There is nothing in the New Testament that says this curse is lifted if one continues in disobedience.

 

[reba]

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
says nothing about tithing...

 

[iLOVE]

Tithing in the New Testament

Christ taught it, as is here proclaimed (Mat. 23:23; Lk. 11:42. Compare Mat. 5:20 with Lk. 18:11-12. See Mat. 10:10; Lk. 10:7-8). Some claim that this was still under the Law; however, the Kingdom of Heaven, which included the Covenant of Grace (Mat. 11:11-14; Lk. 16:16).

 

[reba]

Mat 23 ;23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Mat 10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

Luke 10: 7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. 8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

Not really much there about tithe. Reads a lot more about attitude to me

 

[iLOVE]

Tithing in the New Testament

Christ taught it, as is here proclaimed (Mat. 23:23; Lk. 11:42. Compare Mat. 5:20 with Lk. 18:11-12. See Mat. 10:10; Lk. 10:7-8). Some claim that this was still under the Law; however, the Kingdom of Heaven, which included the Covenant of Grace (Mat. 11:11-14; Lk. 16:16).

Apostle Paul taught it.
1. He condemned sacrilege (Rom. 2:22), robbing Temples (Mal.3:8-10), and using holy things (Lev. 27 entire Chpt.).
2. Teachers had to be paid, which was a part of the tithing program (Gal. 6:6).
3. God Ordained the support of Ministers (1 Cor. 9:7-14; 1 Tim. 6:17-18).
4. Christians are to give as God prospers them (1 Cor. 16:2).
5. The Melchizedek Priesthood, as exampled by Christ, and which pertains to all Ministers of the Gospel, is eternal of Abraham, which includes modern Christians (Heb. 6:20; 7:1-11, 17, 21).
6. The children of Abraham, which includes modern Christians, in Faith, must walk in his steps, and he paid tithes (Rom. 4:12; Heb. 7 entire Chpt.).
7. Tithing is proof of obedience and appreciation of God's Blessings (Rom. 4:12; Heb. 7:6-10; 1 Cor. 9:7-14; 1 Tim. 6:17-18,
compare Mal. 3:8-10; Prov. 3:9-10; Gen. 14:20; Deut. 8:10-20).

 

[iLOVE]

Apostle Paul taught it.
1. He condemned sacrilege (Rom. 2:22), robbing Temples (Mal.3:8-10), and using holy things (Lev. 27 entire Chpt.).
2. Teachers had to be paid, which was a part of the tithing program (Gal. 6:6).
3. God Ordained the support of Ministers (1 Cor. 9:7-14; 1 Tim. 6:17-18).
4. Christians are to give as God prospers them (1 Cor. 16:2).
5. The Melchizedek Priesthood, as exampled by Christ, and which pertains to all Ministers of the Gospel, is eternal of Abraham, which includes modern Christians (Heb. 6:20; 7:1-11, 17, 21).
6. The children of Abraham, which includes modern Christians, in Faith, must walk in his steps, and he paid tithes (Rom. 4:12; Heb. 7 entire Chpt.).
7. Tithing is proof of obedience and appreciation of God's Blessings (Rom. 4:12; Heb. 7:6-10; 1 Cor. 9:7-14; 1 Tim. 6:17-18,
compare Mal. 3:8-10; Prov. 3:9-10; Gen. 14:20; Deut. 8:10-20).

Even greater than that. Paul places giving into the same category as the Cross itself, at least when the giving is to help proclaim the Message of the Cross. He said so as it regarded the offering given to him by the Philippian Church:

"Not because I desire a gift (presents the Apostle defending himself against the slanderous assertion that he is using the Gospel as a means to make money): but I desire fruit that may abound to your account. (God keeps a record of everything, even our gifts, whether giving or receiving.) "But I have all, and abound: I am full (proclaims the fact that the Philippian gift must have been generous), having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you (Epaphroditus had brought the gift from Philippi to Rome where Paul was there incarcerated), an odour of a sweet smell (presents the Old Testament odors of the Levitical sacrifices, all typifying Christ), a sacrifice acceptable, well-pleasing to God. (For those who gave to Paul, enabling him to take the Message of the Cross to others, their gift, and such gifts presently , are looked at by God as a part of the Sacrificial Atoning Work of Christ on the Cross. Nothing could be higher than that!) "But my God shall supply all your need (presents the Apostle assuring the Philippians, and all other Believers, as well that they have not impoverished themselves in giving so liberally to the Cause of Christ) according to His Riches in Glory (the measure of supply will be determined by the Wealth of God in Glory) by Christ Jesus (made possible by the Cross)" (Phil. 4:17-19).

 

[Corn Pop]

The Most High said bring meat into my storehouse, that is in the temple, not your local church. He never said money. Knowone ever tithed money.

And I cannot find in the bible where it says tithing is faith, or God will bless all who give money.

2 Peter 2:3

Listen to the wolves who will bring up tithe in church, they will quote The Most high telling the Jews to bring FOOD into the storehouse, the temple that was, and they twist it to say that means give the church 10% of your gross income. lol.

Gross?, lol, in before caeser even get his taxes.

2 Peter 2:3