Should we obey church leadership, or the Holy Spirit?

[Delete_me]

Acts 5:29 We must obey God rather than men!

That was in direct response--defiance--to church leadership. The only caveat is, before you play the Acts 5:29 card you need to be SURE that is the Holy Spirit leading you. The apostles had the benefit of Jesus standing right there in front of them, commanding them in person.

 

[hawkman]

But his illumination of God's truth to me doesn't take the shape of some amorphous, impossible to precisely and biblically describe "voice" speaking directly to my spirit

Does the Voice speak to my mind or to my spirit , I can't say but I "hear" what is said .

Was it an angel or the Holy Spirit that spoke to me one night as I was deep asleep I can not say , but here is what happened .

A few years ago I was talking with a cousin and he told me about his son being in the army fighting in the middle east .
His son told what job he had , riding in a Humvee manning a 50cal machine gun . It was suggested by his dad that the son needed a lower profile job . So a few months later I was sound asleep one night and I was awakened by these words, " Pray for J***" . It took me a little bit to come to and understand what was going on and I remembered , oh yeah J*** is fighting over in the middle east , so I said a prayer for him and went back to sleep .
Not even thinking again about the prayer one day about two months later I hear about J*** , the Humvee he and his squad was riding in took a direct hit from and roadside IED . Some of his fellow soldiers were killed and J*** had suffered massive head trauma . J*** did survive and has raised a family , praise God !

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Great question. One, I think, that many Christians either never think to ask, or are afraid to ask. They want as much latitude as possible, it appears to me, to shoehorn into Christian living, into life in the Spirit, a great deal of what is carnal. It doesn't help that secular society is mad with hyper-subjectivity and the insane resistance to objective - and constraining - reality. I think this hyper-individualism and subjectification of Truth has crept into the Church, manifesting in things like "Progressive Christianity" and the way so many churches tribalize within themselves into age groups, marital status groups, interest groups, political groups, and so on.

Anyway, how does one distinguish the illumination of the Spirit from a counterfeit of the same? I turn to the Bible for answers, of course, considering the matter along the following lines:

What does the Bible tell me the flesh looks like and is ultimately aimed at?

What does the Bible tell me the life and work of the Spirit looks like and is ultimately aimed at?

When these things are clearly-defined in one's thinking, is it possible to distinguish clearly fleshly Self-talk from the illuminating work of the Spirit?

The flesh (by which I mean the "carnal mind" - Romans 8:5-8) is well-described in the NT. It's temporally-focused, slave to the appetites and impulses of the body, radically seeking its own satisfaction and gratification (Philippians 3:18-19). Such selfishness always produces conflict with others, especially with those who are likewise selfish (1 Corinthians 3:1-3; James 3:14-16; Titus 3:3). Such self-centeredness must inevitably be sensual, desiring stimulation of the physical senses and emotions, leading often to various addictions (porn, drugs, food, etc. - 2 Peter 2; Jude 1:4-16).

The life of the Spirit stands in very sharp contrast to the life carnal living produces (even when it is cloaked in religious piety and external law-keeping). Rather than being Self-focused, the Spirit is always glorifying Christ, pressing the child of God to look away from themselves and grow more and more occupied with Jesus (John 16:14; Philippians 1:21; Philippians 3:7-8; 2 Corinthians 3:18, 1 Corinthians 2:2, etc.). The fruit of the Spirit is never more of us, but more of himself, who is the Spirit of Christ (Romans 8:9; Galatians 5:22-23) producing ever-increasing holiness, self-sacrifice, and truth in the life of the believer, always fanning the flames of desire for Christ and resisting our carnality.

So, when I think I've been "illuminated" by the Spirit, I do an analysis, putting the "new understanding" I think I've had under the "magnifying glass" of what I've pointed out from God's word. In what direction does my "lightbulb moment" move me? Toward self-congratulation and pride, or toward humility and an increased appreciation for God and His awesome wisdom and Truth? Does my new understanding bring God more into focus, or myself? As a result of the Spirit's illumination, am I left pondering my own psychology and intellect, my own insightfulness, my own life-story, or am I delighted by the knowledge that, having learned more of God, I move closer to Him and am better able to be used by Him?

Does what I want to say is from the Spirit, his illumination, correspond precisely with God's Truth revealed in Scripture? In immediate context, is what I think is Spirit- illumination of God's Truth correct? Does what I want to call the Spirit's teaching synthesize well with the rest of God's word, also? Does this illumination conform to God's laws of logic and principles of reason?

Finally, is what I think that the Spirit's taught me impacting my practical living and my own thinking, values and beliefs such that Christ is more evident in me (Romans 8:29; 2 Corinthians 4:7-11)? Most importantly, in consequence of the Spirit's illumination, do I desire God more (Matthew 22;36-38)? Is my love for Him increased, deepened and intensified, such that I will do anything to protect my communion with Him, first and foremost, to die to myself (Matthew 16:24-25; John 12:24-25; Colossians 3:1-3)?

When it's just carnal Self counterfeiting the Spirit's illumination, Christ, love for him, fellowship with God and the crucified life are not radically front-and-center. Instead, sensuality (not sexuality, necessarily) and emotionality, self-improvement, self-analysis, and self-interest supplant the Spirit's Christ-centeredness. Self-serving philosophies of the World often mix into my what I want to say the Spirit's taught me, too, watering down God's Truth, even contradicting it sometimes, making lots of room for pious carnality.

See above. I won't ever point to some inner, subjective "knowing" in justification of my claim that my "lightbulb" moment is from/of God. If I can't reconcile well my illumination by the Spirit with God's Truth given to me in His word, then I will not say my Spirit-illumination is of the Spirit. If the Spirit's illumination doesn't make me more like Christ, inflame my desire (love) for God, and prompt me to ever-more radical heart-separation from the World, the Flesh and the devil, then I'm lying (primarily to myself) if I say it has been the Spirit who has illuminated me.

Well, as you can see above, there's bit more to it than this.

I'm not clear on what you mean here...

Impossible, I would say.

Right. Which it's so incredibly important for Christians to be able to objectively analyze the actual character and source of their thoughts.
Yes, absolutely.

Yup.

That this bit is entirely subjectivized, determined to be so almost entirely on a "I just know" basis that has allowed a great deal of blasphemous stuff to go on among Christians. In consequence of this radical subjectivity about life in the Spirit, religious shysters, who are always keen to make merchandise of believers, offer weekend conferences where, for hundreds of dollars a pop, one can learn to hear the incredibly still and small "voice" of the Spirit, thrash about on the floor in a fit of hysteria, soak, or toke, or be drunk in the Spirit, or practice growing their faith by attempting to run through a wall. Awful, degrading and deeply carnal (as well as demonic) stuff.

No, I'm opposed to those who would offer a very unbiblical and highly-subjective counterfeit of life in the Spirit doing so. I've seen terrible devastation spiritually among those who have been chewed up and spat out by the hyper-charismatic culture, all the result of a migration away from the objective standard of God's word.

This, of course, is a discussion of only one of the Spirit's ministries, i.e., His teaching ministry. Imagine if God was giving you an "Ah ha!" moment and you were to say, "Wait a minute. I need time to find 'objective' evidence that what you are showing me is true before I'll accept it." That, of course, isn't how the "Ah ha!" moments transpire. What actually happens is the Spirit shows you the depth of meaning in a passage that perhaps you have misunderstood or had not considered, and instead of questioning His trustworthiness, you accept what He communicated with joy and appreciation. If other of your beliefs contradict what the Spirit revealed to you in the "Ah ha!" moment, immediately they come into question.

But "leading" is another ministry of the Holy Spirit. When He leads you in a different direction than the one you are going, is it right to say to Him, "I need to find objective evidence in Scripture before I do that"? What objective evidence was needed for Paul and his companions to follow through on what the Lord told them to do?

5 When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ. (Ac 18:5)​

6 Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. (Ac 16:6)​

7 After they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit did not permit them. (Ac 16:7)​

In every case, no matter the ministry, trusting the Holy Spirit and following through on what He communicates is the key to living a sucessful Christian life. This is the definition of walking in the Spirit, and it is the only way to avoid fulfilling the desires of the flesh.

 

[Tenchi]

This, of course, is a discussion of only one of the Spirit's ministries, i.e., His teaching ministry. Imagine if God was giving you an "Ah ha!" moment and you were to say, "Wait a minute. I need time to find 'objective' evidence that what you are showing me is true before I'll accept it." That, of course, isn't how the "Ah ha!" moments transpire. What actually happens is the Spirit shows you the depth of meaning in a passage that perhaps you have misunderstood or had not considered, and instead of questioning His trustworthiness, you accept what He communicated with joy and appreciation.

Not in my case. Always, because I am - as all humans are - very susceptible to self-deception, I do just as I described and consider what I think is of God in the light of what He has said in His word is of Him. The better a handle I have on what this is, exactly, the better in the moment I am able to discern between self-deception (or demonic deception) and God's actual communication to me. My evaluation now , after fifty years of walking with God is, therefore, more immediate than in the past.

But "leading" is another ministry of the Holy Spirit. When He leads you in a different direction than the one you are going, is it right to say to Him, "I need to find objective evidence in Scripture before I do that"?

Absolutely. Again, humans are notoriously self-deceived and so discerning God's leading must never be left up to mere subjective feeling. I can't count the number of times I've observed Christians who were certain God was leading them in some direction or other who discovered He'd done no such thing, sin and catastrophe often the result.

What objective evidence was needed for Paul and his companions to follow through on what the Lord told them to do?

5 When Silas and Timothy had come from Macedonia, Paul was compelled by the Spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus is the Christ. (Ac 18:5)
6 Now when they had gone through Phrygia and the region of Galatia, they were forbidden by the Holy Spirit to preach the word in Asia. (Ac 16:6)
7 After they had come to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit did not permit them. (Ac 16:7)

Objective evidence? "Compelled by the Spirit...". "Forbidden by the Spirit...". "The Spirit did not permit them..." Not they felt the Spirit was leading them here or there, not some inner impulse led them in this direction or that, not a strong sensation guided them. The Spirit led them, unmistakably and concretely - and objectively so.

It is entirely an assumption that the Spirit led the apostles in a highly-subjective, sensation/impression-based manner. When I look at the rest of Scripture and its many descriptions of God's leading and communications to people, no such description is ever given.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

Not in my case. Always, because I am - as all humans are - very susceptible to self-deception, I do just as I described and consider what I think is of God in the light of what He has said in His word is of Him. The better a handle I have on what this is, exactly, the better in the moment I am able to discern between self-deception (or demonic deception) and God's actual communication to me. My evaluation now , after fifty years of walking with God is, therefore, more immediate than in the past.

Absolutely. Again, humans are notoriously self-deceived and so discerning God's leading must never be left up to mere subjective feeling. I can't count the number of times I've observed Christians who were certain God was leading them in some direction or other who discovered He'd done no such thing, sin and catastrophe often the result.

You do know you are saying that God (who is Spirit) cannot be trusted, right?

Objective evidence? "Compelled by the Spirit...". "Forbidden by the Spirit...". "The Spirit did not permit them..." Not they felt the Spirit was leading them here or there, not some inner impulse led them in this direction or that, not a strong sensation guided them. The Spirit led them, unmistakably and concretely - and objectively so.

It is entirely an assumption that the Spirit led the apostles in a highly-subjective, sensation/impression-based manner. When I look at the rest of Scripture and its many descriptions of God's leading and communications to people, no such description is ever given.

It is clear they reacted to God telling them by His Spirit what to do and what not to do. It is also clear that you object entirely to the concept that God interracts with us on a spiritual level. But He does. God is Spirit. And those who worship Him must worship in spirit.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons (1 Ti 4:1)​

Paul believed the Lord (the Lord is the Spirit) when He told him that people in the latter days will give heed to deceiving spirits. It is obvious that some people will believe the "deceiving spirits". We are given tests for determining which spirits are from God. But it is wholely foreign to Scripture to say that communications from God's Holy Spirit, the most trustworthy person in the universe, are highly subjective, sensation/impression based, and must be vetted against Scripture before being trusted.

 

[NewLifeInChrist]

It is entirely an assumption that the Spirit led the apostles in a highly-subjective, sensation/impression-based manner. When I look at the rest of Scripture and its many descriptions of God's leading and communications to people, no such description is ever given.

When I look at Scriptures that describe God leading people, I see unquivocal evidence of God through His Spirit telling people what He wants them to do and I see an expectation that they will do what He says. Integral to the concept of obedience is the concept that the follower can hear and understand the commands of his leader. The leader gives orders and the follower receives the orders and obeyes them. Is this the process that you describe as "highly subjective" and "sensation / impression based", or are you speaking of something else?

 

[Tenchi]

You do know you are saying that God (who is Spirit) cannot be trusted, right?

No, what I'm saying is that a person's subjective belief, based upon subjective impression, feeling, etc., that God is leading them is not to be trusted. This "leading" and the actual leading of the Holy Spirit can be very different things, which is why the objective, authoritative, biblical basis for discerning the Spirit's leading is so crucial.

It is clear they reacted to God telling them by His Spirit what to do and what not to do.

But it is an assumption, unsupported by God's word, that "God's telling them by His Spirit what to do" was by means of some inner impulse, feeling or impression, or a voice heard in their minds. In no instance in all of the Bible can I find any such thing described though many of God's communications to people are. Why is this? If it is the norm for God, for the Holy Spirit, to communicate with people by this inner, subjective, direct-to-mind impulse or feeling or "voice," why are all but this one means of communication described in Scripture?

It is also clear that you object entirely to the concept that God interracts with us on a spiritual level.

Not at all. I just constrain what I think that interaction will be to what God's word gives me good reason to think it will be.

God is Spirit. And those who worship Him must worship in spirit.

Yes, I'm well aware of this. But it seems to me you're making assumptions about what "worshiping God in spirit" means rather than letting God's word tell you what it means.

But it is wholely foreign to Scripture to say that communications from God's Holy Spirit, the most trustworthy person in the universe, are highly subjective, sensation/impression based, and must be vetted against Scripture before being trusted.

But this isn't so. All that I've explained to you concerning this matter is derived from Scripture, as my posts clearly demonstrate, so it is false to say my views are "wholly foreign to Scripture." What they are is wholly foreign to modern Christianity afflicted with secular current of thought and plagued by hyper-charismatic influences. My view, however, is entirely in line with God's word.

 

[Tenchi]

When I look at Scriptures that describe God leading people, I see unquivocal evidence of God through His Spirit telling people what He wants them to do and I see an expectation that they will do what He says.

Again, it is always assumed that when the Holy Spirit is said to have communicated with someone in Scripture it was by way of an inner impression, or "voice" in their mind, or impulse to act in some way. But this assumption has no concrete ground anywhere in God's word. Instead, God communicated via angels, dreams, visions, prophets, burning bushes, wet and dry fleeces, a hand writing on a wall; He even came to earth in-the-flesh and talked with humans face-to-face. But I know of no place in God's word where it says "The Spirit spoke in his mind, directing him with impressions and impulses." Could God direct us in this direct-to-mind way? Of course. But if He did, this sort of direction would be discerned by inspection/evaluation of it under the light of His Truth given in Scripture.

It is this subjection to God's word that seems to me to frustrate most modern believers who want to be "led of the Spirit." And this is so, it seems to me, because it sharply constrains the sensuality, in particular, of Christians who are determined that God should be confined/accessed by their physical senses, stimulating their emotions at every turn. It also limits those who would like to stand before their Christian brethren and say, "Thus says the Lord," declaring themselves God's prophets and apostles and directing the Church under their "new revelations" from God. No thank you.

Integral to the concept of obedience is the concept that the follower can hear and understand the commands of his leader. The leader gives orders and the follower receives the orders and obeyes them.

Those "orders" from our Divine Commander have been given in His letter to us, the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

In my experience, those most keen to subjectivize God's leading (especially in the most bizarre and blasphemous ways) are those who are most ignorant of, and/or most in violation of, His word. Interesting, that.

Is this the process that you describe as "highly subjective" and "sensation / impression based", or are you speaking of something else?

It depends upon what you mean by "hear and obey the commands of the leader." I "hear" from God, He "speaks" to me in clear, understandable, and umistakable words, every time I open my Bible to read it. And the Spirit "brings to remembrance" what I have made the effort to know and understand of God's word., enabling me to live in it, more and more.

 

[JLB]

There was a thread recently created which touched on the issue of spontaneity, and whether Christians should be able to go where they want or be confined to the limits of one particular group (which presumably applies to things like only attending one church, for instance).

There is actually a very simple answer to this question IMO, and that's that every believer should be led of the Holy Spirit personally, and any church leader who would usurp the Spirit's control over where they went should be avoided like the plague. The quickest path to a dead faith is allowing oneself to be robbed of His personal leading and guidance. But I believe the problem has arisen over two simple facts:

1. The early church never envisioned a time when what church leadership told you to do and what the Holy Spirit told you to do would be two different things, but they often ARE today, which seems to put obeying one's elders AND the leading of the Holy Spirit at odds with each other.

2. This problem is compounded, however, by the fact that many Christians today don't actually have much a handle of hearing His voice and leading personally, so they wander about wherever they think they feel led. This can exacerbate the problem exponentially, because if they are adrift on a sea without any real direction from God, the slightest things can and will affect them. There is no stability in their life and no commitment, so when the enemy comes against what they are currently doing they will buckle and flee. They also won't know when a situation has changed. What begins as a good church or a good ministry can sometimes be turned in a negative direction, and then the decision will need to be made that it is time to leave. By contrast, a church that was in a bad situation could have a change in leadership or direction and then become a place God would lead people to rather than compel them to stay away from.

Everything depends upon the leading of the Holy Spirit, and this is no longer synonymous with what other Christians or even Christian leaders are sometimes saying, so receiving the knowing of the Holy Spirit personally is of the utmost importance.

Other opinions are welcome.

Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him

Here is an example of the Holy Spirit sending out an apostle to plant and establish churches in first century.


Now in the church that was at Antioch there were certain prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Simeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. 2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.
4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia, and from there they sailed to Cyprus. 5 And when they arrived in Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews. They also had John as their assistant. Acts 13:1-5

• As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.

The Holy Spirit leads through the local church leadership, who have given themselves over to Him with fasting, worship and prayer.


Self appointed leaders who don't fast or pray, or minister to the Lord in worship, ...



JLB

 

[Corinth77777]

There was a thread recently created which touched on the issue of spontaneity, and whether Christians should be able to go where they want or be confined to the limits of one particular group (which presumably applies to things like only attending one church, for instance).

There is actually a very simple answer to this question IMO, and that's that every believer should be led of the Holy Spirit personally, and any church leader who would usurp the Spirit's control over where they went should be avoided like the plague. The quickest path to a dead faith is allowing oneself to be robbed of His personal leading and guidance. But I believe the problem has arisen over two simple facts:

1. The early church never envisioned a time when what church leadership told you to do and what the Holy Spirit told you to do would be two different things, but they often ARE today, which seems to put obeying one's elders AND the leading of the Holy Spirit at odds with each other.

2. This problem is compounded, however, by the fact that many Christians today don't actually have much a handle of hearing His voice and leading personally, so they wander about wherever they think they feel led. This can exacerbate the problem exponentially, because if they are adrift on a sea without any real direction from God, the slightest things can and will affect them. There is no stability in their life and no commitment, so when the enemy comes against what they are currently doing they will buckle and flee. They also won't know when a situation has changed. What begins as a good church or a good ministry can sometimes be turned in a negative direction, and then the decision will need to be made that it is time to leave. By contrast, a church that was in a bad situation could have a change in leadership or direction and then become a place God would lead people to rather than compel them to stay away from.

Everything depends upon the leading of the Holy Spirit, and this is no longer synonymous with what other Christians or even Christian leaders are sometimes saying, so receiving the knowing of the Holy Spirit personally is of the utmost importance.

Other opinions are welcome.

Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him

You should obey the Leaders who are led by the Spirit

 

[Hidden In Him]

2 As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” 3 Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away.
4 So, being sent out by the Holy Spirit, they went down to Seleucia

Yes. It's interesting that no specific mention is made of HOW the Holy Spirit said these words to them, but this implies it was understood as common practice for the Holy Spirit to direct the early church by such means in New Testament times; in other words, He was directing them not just by wishy washy feelings about what they sensed they should probably, but the use of εἶπον here (literally to "say" or "speak") means he was doing so audibly, either literally through prophetic utterance (prophecy, tongues and interpretation) or figuratively through other prophetic gifts (dreams, visions etc). Either way they were not just operating on some sort of delegated authority and coming to some kind of soulish, man-driven consensus like a board of directors. Early church leaders were being specifically TOLD what to do by the Holy Spirit Himself, and there was no misunderstanding. They were hearing Him clearly, and obeying Him.

Would that more of church leadership did the same today.

 

[JLB]

Yes. It's interesting that no specific mention is made of HOW the Holy Spirit said these words to them, but this implies it was understood as common practice for the Holy Spirit to direct the early church by such means in New Testament times; in other words, He was directing them not just by wishy washy feelings about what they sensed they should probably, but the use of εἶπον here (literally to "say" or "speak") means he was doing so audibly, either literally through prophetic utterance (prophecy, tongues and interpretation) or figuratively through other prophetic gifts (dreams, visions etc). Either way they were not just operating on some sort of delegated authority and coming to some kind of soulish, man-driven consensus like a board of directors. Early church leaders were being specifically TOLD what to do by the Holy Spirit Himself, and there was no misunderstanding. They were hearing Him clearly, and obeying Him.

Would that more of church leadership did the same today.

Men are proud, and unwilling to pay the price to hear His Voice.

The many denominations are a testimony of this.

Fasting, prayer, and worshipping the Lord, as well as separating from the world.

He is about to bring all of this down. Those who repent will be used mightily in these last days.

Those who continue to promote false doctrine, such as Calvinism, pre-trib rapture, and all manner of powerless man driven theology, will no doubt have a day or reckoning very soon.



JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

He said that anyone who tells me something different than he has already explained to me should be avoided.

How can anyone tell you anything different??? If they are going to suggest you are wrong when you say the Holy Spirit told you, they cannot refute it.

 

[Iconoclast]

Other opinions are welcome.

Blessings in Christ Jesus,
Hidden In Him

As other views are welcomed I will say this point of view is dead wrong, and unbiblical when examined.
Those who share this view are mostly anti church/ anti scripture.
Nowhere are we told that the Spirit is leading people all over and outside of the churches He has ordained.

 

[Iconoclast]

Men are proud, and unwilling to pay the price to hear His Voice.

The many denominations are a testimony of this.

Fasting, prayer, and worshipping the Lord, as well as separating from the world.

He is about to bring all of this down. Those who repent will be used mightily in these last days.

Those who continue to promote false doctrine, such as Calvinism, pre-trib rapture, and all manner of powerless man driven theology, will no doubt have a day or reckoning very soon.



JLB

People claiming to be hearing voices always depart from truth. As they depart, they claim voices led them.
If anyone is critical, they claim it is worldly, or fleshly persecution.

 

[Iconoclast]

This is just a part of a class I had to take years ago before I could get my Evangelistic license to be able to go teach the word of God in the local prisons. Many things are for a time and a season as I am no longer a licensed Evangelist, but yet a servant under the guidance of the Holy Spirit who gives what God wants me to speak. This is more about teaching, but yet for the full involvement in the administration in the true Church/Body of Christ.

Teaching is a vital part of the Great Commission to believers. We are commanded to teach all nations about the Christian walk and witness. The word teach used by Jesus in His charge to his disciples is actually the word "matheteuo" which means disciple, to enroll as a scholar. Our commission is to communicate and distribute information, to mold lives, to inform, and to inspire. We are called to teach and train disciples.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

As teachers we have the privilege of working with and for the Pastor to strengthen the work of the gospel and to bless families by imparting Christian values to their children. We also see ourselves as workers with the parents encouraging them in their role as the primary spiritual influence in the lives of their children and for those without a family to be a spiritual influence on the community as a leader and teacher.

In Deuteronomy 6:6-9 God, speaking through Moses, instructed the Israelite's to teach their children diligently the things of God throughout the day and to have many reminders of spiritual truths in their homes.

Deuteronomy 6:6 and these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deuteronomy 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deuteronomy 6:8 and thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deuteronomy 6:9 and thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

When the Sunday school first started in America, many Christian leaders had strong concerns about the whole program, because they were concerned that parents would tend to leave the spiritual training of their children to the Sunday School and neglect spiritual training at home. To be effective you must inspire and influence the child beyond the one hour teaching session as you lead the children into a daily walk with God and help impart vision to parents for daily family devotions and a spiritual atmosphere at home.

This not only implies to the Christian home, but to anyone who imparts the word of God unto others. A good teacher will inspire more than inform. The joy of the Lord is more caught than taught. If you had measles and teach on mumps, what will you most likely impart, other words when you are teaching stay on the subject you are to be teaching and do not drift off into another area or subject as it will cause confusion.

Some of the activities teachers should pursue outside of the classroom include:
1. Prayer - Always pray and seek the Holy Spirits guidance
2. Preparation - take the time you need to prepare your class and to know with authority through the scriptures for what you are teaching.
3. Personal visitation - visit those who have special needs
4. Practice - learn to perfect the way you teach the word, other words perfect your own style of teaching, do not teach like someone else, put your own characteristics and style into your teachings. Use experiences from your past to demonstrate the power this word has to change things in your life. Let people see the light of Christ shine through you and the good fruits of your mouth Galatians 5:22-23.

Galatians 5:22 but the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Galatians 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

5. Persistent Bible study - learn what the truth of the word says for what you are teaching. Studying everyday helps us grow in knowledge and understanding which gives us wisdom through the Holy Spirit.
6. Purity in lifestyle - Be an example to others. What they see is what they will also become. Do people see the fruits of the Spirit coming out of your mouth and your actions, or are they seeing the works of the flesh.

We are soldiers under Gods authority. Our purpose is to complement and strengthen the vision that God gives the Pastor of the church you are serving under. Our purpose as teachers is to change lives by stimulating people with a sense of vision and destiny. The message is not only, "I can go to Heaven when I die," but also that God made us for a special purpose to bless him in our life and worship, to help other Christians and to win lost souls to Jesus.

Be a worthy soldier in the army of God and never get entangled with the affairs of this life, other words do not let the things of this world control your life as you are in control of your own live living to please the Lord in all things you do.

2Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Timothy 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
2Timothy 2:5 and if a man also strive for masteries yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully.

The most important thing as a teacher is to study to show yourself approved unto God. As we teach others we need to also remember that we are held accountable before God for every word that proceeds out of our mouth. Do not teach this word of God through mans traditions, interpretation, doctrine or opinions. Teach this word as the Holy Spirit teaches it to you for knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

Those who claim to be led outside the authority of a faithful local church , are unbiblical.

 

[Iconoclast]

Whether it be a Pastor no matter the size of their flock or just any individual that has been called and anointed by the Holy Spirit to teach the word of God being a disciple of Christ Jesus also need to be approachable and prepared in and out of season to answer any questions that are asked of what they have taught. Yes, one plants the seed, another waters the seed, but they are not anything of themselves and it is God that brings in the harvest.
I've been to small and mega church's where no matter the size some Pastors are not even approachable. I always like to talk to the Pastor of a new church I walk into, or even ask them questions of what they have just taught in their sermons, but all I have ever gotten from most of them is they have no time to talk, little known to even answer any questions. That is because many Pastors are handed what they are to preach and many have very little knowledge in the word of God because they do not study for themselves. When I lived in San Antonio I visit a mega church there and after the service I wanted to speak to the Pastor, whom I will not name, but the Elders of the Church said that he does not speak to anyone in the congregation and even has body guards as he fears for his life. Basically what it comes down to is to study for yourself praying and asking the Holy Spirit to teach you all truths, 2Timothy 2:15-16.

2Tim 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Tim 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Tim 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
2Tim 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Divisions in the Church
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

There are no rogue lone ranger Christians operating outside of a local church.

 

[Iconoclast]

There is no difference between what you call a modern Christian then what the first Christians learned on the day of Pentecost when their Spiritual eyes and ears were opened to receive all truth through the indwelling and anointing of the Holy Spirit. God's word is the same yesterday, today and forever as He has never added to it or taken away from it like the carnal minded man has done throughout the centuries. Even if we did not have the written word the Holy Spirit would still teach us all that God gave to Jesus to speak.

Act 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
Those who are Spiritually born again from above and indwelled with the Holy Spirit are also disciples of Christ as the word Christian means to be Christlike in all we do and say.

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Rev 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
Rev 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Rev 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Rev 3:11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Rev 3:13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

That new Jerusalem is the true body of Christ that have made themselves ready for the coming of the Lord as our leadership is that of the Holy Spirit that works through those who have been anointed and called to the ministry of Christ given gifts from the Holy Spirit for the purpose of God who has set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues, 1Corinthians 12:27-31.

These false ideas lead people away from God and His Church. The Op. welcomed different points of view, so here we are.

 

[Christ_empowered]

There are no rogue lone ranger Christians operating outside of a local church.

What if the local churches ️ aren’t going to tolerate a believer?

 

[Iconoclast]

Truth has now turned to deception of the carnal minds ways of thinking which produces mans interpretations, traditions of law and doctrine. Satan has such a foothold on religions and has side blinded all of us into believing whatever is taught behind the pulpit is truth because after all, they are the Priest, Rabbis, Pastors, etc. etc. and they should know what they are talking about because they are our teachers. Satan is pretty clever and the master of lies and deceit.

1Peter 5:8 be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil is seeking to whom he may devour.
1Peter 5:9 Whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Peter 5:10 but the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle you.

1Peter 4:11 If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles, (wisdom) of God, if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth, that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ to whom be praise and dominion forever and ever, Amen.

Revelation 22:18 for I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

God could not have spoken any clearer about what happens to anyone who tries to change his word and teach another gospel other then Christ. We can be sure of what we are being taught by getting into the word for ourselves and allow the Holy Spirit teach us all things as only then will we know how to separate truth from error. The saddest part is that most teachers do not even realize they are preaching a different gospel as they teach through traditions and mans interpretative doctrines because they have become to lazy to dig for truth and want to give you what you want to hear and not what you need to hear. I praise God for the many times he has stepped on my toes and showed me what I needed to see even though it hurt seeing it, but it brought me into all truths, praise his glorious name, Amen.

2Timothy 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Timothy 2:16 but shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Your aversion to the church as you have often spoken of leads you down a dangerous path. You are free to go down that path, but it is not a good one.