Should women have authority over men in the Church?

[Fembot]

Thanks for your input, Sparrow. You reminded me that the essential drive for man and woman should be to procreate. Distinct roles are what helps families thrive. Like the gears of a machine (one wheel pushing the other forward) man and woman cannot forget their position. But I am not inclined to force others to believe what I say. Everyday I put my thoughts in writing is a step forward for me in my walk with Our Father.

If only we could be peacemakers whilst standing up for our beliefs.

 

[radorth]

A man with true spiritual authority realizes that his authority is for the purpose of facilitating and not simply controlling. He excercises his authority meekly and with restraint, and he is not threatened by a woman who occasionally stands up to prophesy. In fact he recognizes her authority to do so when it is of the Spirit.

To tell the truth, I have not fully resolved Paul's honoring prophetesses in one place, and apparently calling for their silence in another. He seems to be talking in the second instance to an unruly church. In any case the principle of authority cannot be broken by anyone.

 

[Michael Shimiyu]

Dear Friends,

I have just joined the forum with the intention of getting some answers on difficult theological questions(or at least getting to know the understanding of others in the body of Christ), and the topic at hand covers some of the passages that I find difficult to resolve.

I really appreciate the valuable inputs presented on this forum. Following through the thread of discussions though I don't see any conclusive remarks on this subject matter. While I am persuaded that no one has the exclusive right for interpretation of scriptures, I also believe that there is only 'one' right interpretation as intended by the Original Author, for each portion of scripture, text or book of the bible! Applications may vary though.......

I do subscribe to Peter, when he cautioned that,

2 Peter 1:20-21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

and again he says about Paul's letters,

2 Peter 3:15-16
...............; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; [16] As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Now, on the subject matter above, Is it possible for someone to boil it down to a conclusive statement?

 

[Sparkey]

What bird will put its foot into a snare when it is laid clearly in its sight?

Okay, I'll try.

If the man is outside of God's authority and following after false beliefs and commands the woman to not worship God or not pray, the woman should not obey him. Is this an example of her having authority over him? Not really. She is merely following the highest authority.

If the man is ordering their children into a situation where harm could befall them and she shouts, "Belay that command! Come back out of the street! Don't you see that steam-roller, foolish children?!?" Is she taking authority over her man? Again, not really. She is countermanding the order he gave, yes. -But she is not 'playing-master' over him. No one in the body of Christ is to do this. Not shepherds (Pastors) who are to be overseers of their flock. Not Apostles (who are sent by God -through His love) and not Prophets (who speak from the seat of authority as the mouth of God Himself), and not Teachers (who are to consider carefully because unto them is double judgment) and not Evangelists (who have the blessing placed upon their feet as they deliver the Good News of our Salvation). Let there not be many masters, declares James (I think it was James, right?).

Okay, the bible speaks of things that are "done in the dark that are shameful even to mention" so understand that from here on out there is a "PG13" going toward "R" rating on the topic.
I should hold my tongue and not speak... Hey! wait a second... I will hold my peace and do not need to go into detail. God specifically told Israel the reason why they should not allow to take the daughters of other nations as wives. It is because they would teach them the ways of the false gods.

Look around the world for any example of a woman "playing master over a man" and the answer becomes clear. God desires the marriage relationship to be holy. He has established rules that are conducive to that relationship so that we can get to know Him. Consider all the analogies that occur through out the bible. Herdsmen and sheep, Fishers and fish, Husbandmen (farmers) and the land, the land and the seed, the seed and the path, mighty mountains and man and God, proud animals of the flesh such as the Horse, silent animals like the turtle whose song can be heard, precious stones and their attributes applied to man and God, precious metals such as silver compared to knowledge and Gold compared to the Wisdom of God which endures forever, consider the land flowing with milk and honey and all the analogies & etc.

Within each are "mysteries" seen and explained. Yet of all the mysteries and all the analogies there is one that is elevated beyond the rest. The relationship seen between Jesus and his church is seen in the cleaving together of man and woman in marriage. And Adam said, 'This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called Woman because she was taken out of man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave to his wife and they shall be one flesh.' The analogy of marriage reflects the beauty of the very purpose of God.

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

• Three things are too wonderful for me, yea, four which I do not know:
  • the way of an eagle in the air;
  • the way of a snake on a rock; [/*:m:33jn9daz]
  • the way of a ship in the middle of the sea; [/*:m:33jn9daz]
  • and the way of a man with a maiden.[/*:m:33jn9daz]
  Consider the way of an eagle in the air. Consider its flightpath and how it moves. Think about the weight of a ship and how it is easily displaced in the sea. Does the sea struggle? Consider the movement and the path of the ship as it cuts through the water. Consider the way of a snake on a rock, consider exactly how it moves and also consider its path. Can it move one part and not another? Is the term "sinuous" too sensuous? Should all things be done in order? Now then consider the forth which is too wonderful for me, the fourth which I do not know: the way of a man with a maiden. Unto God are the secrets and unto us are the things revealed.[/*:m:33jn9daz][/list:u:33jn9daz]
  
  Our eyes turn back to the world for only a brief moment (will God turn us into a pillar of Salt? -Nay, we have grace for this). In Proverbs in the verse directly after the ones quoted above about the "ways too wonderful" --- there comes this verse: Now understand that to my way of thinking the "woman" seen in the next can be any fornicator; it is not a gender thing:
  • Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eats, and wipes her mouth, and says, I have done no evil. < 'I have done no wrong' >[/*:m:33jn9daz]
  
  I am an adulterous woman & I'm an idolatress against God (my husband) when I put anything before Him. Truly if we are guilty in one point we are guilty of all. He speaks of MY ways and declares MY secrets and shame. Such is the foolishness of preaching. But that aside, when was the last time you've heard a fornicator say that they were being drawn closer to Christ by the analogy of their relationship? Can the fruit of the Spirit be produced by Christ in truth in a relationship based on self interest? If these are the days that are similar to the days of Noah and men and women are "giving and taking in marriage" for convenience sake, if we are watching the love of many grow cold, if we are vexed in our hearts by what we see? If we have turned back toward fornication, can we please un-saltify ourselves? Turn our eyes back to God.
  
  Should all things be done in order? Yes.
  Should all things be done to the building up of the saints? Yes.
  Should we pray that the will of our Father be done on earth as it is in heaven? Yes.
  Is there any clear example of where rightful authority (that which is truly aligned with the purpose of God) is overthrown? There is a certain spirit of deception mentioned and the bible does say that except those days be shortened even the very elect would be deceived (if such a thing were possible) but for their sakes those days will be shortened. So, no. But it can come close and is clearly seen even today.
  
  I have tried here to put my foot into the snare (and escape).
  To answer the post above, "Is it possible to boil it down to a conclusive statement?" Maybe.
  Husbands: Love your wife. Wives: Obey (revere? respect? -I've not looked it up) your husband.
  Husbands and Wives: Be one flesh and seek that all things are done in your land(s) as they ought.
  It's not new, but it is tested and true. Good enough?
  
  ~Sparrow
  
  Please pardon me my error(s). I do know that with many words come much offense and this is exactly what I hope to not do. Please also hear the folly of my preaching here (a divorced man speaks about love and marriage, sheeesh...) with grace and a kind ear.

 

[Fembot]

Purpose of marriage

Procreation - having children
Union - a loving partnership of living together
Rearing children - providing nurture & security
Pattern for society - family unit of mutual support
One flesh - sexual intimacy
Sacred - blessed by God
Eternal - lifelong faithful relationship

http://www.rsrevision.com/GCSE/christia ... troduction

 

[Benoni]

God is not a sexist.

It always amazes me how a verse in the NT becomes law, just like the law in the OT. When I look at the Bible I see a spiritual book, not a law book.

1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example

Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)


A “man†spiritually speaking is always spiritual, God is most cases is always refereed to as a man (there is one exception I know of). Adam was created as a man and later Eve came out of him. Manchild/bridegroom, King of Kings, Lord of Lord’s; spiritual things are always masculine.

Now a women is speaks of soulish matters, Babylon/church/bride.

I know of women who’s ministries are very spiritual, where I know of a lot of men who’s ministries are totally soulish.