Should women teach in the church?

[jaybo]

Yes, they sinned first.
Just as difficult (baby) labor was put on them, so too they will pay with a subjection to their husbands.

The command not to eat of the tree was spoken to Adam, not Eve. He disobeyed God's spoken command and brought sin into the world.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Romans 5:16, "Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification."

1 Corinthians 15:21, "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man."

You need to read your Bible more carefully. Adam was responsible for sin and death coming into the world, not Eve.

BTW, I have been married for 53 years. My wife and are in harmony; neither one is subject to the other.

 

[Cooper]

I think it a pity that you are trying to reform the church according to present day culture.
Shouldn't it be the other way around?

???
.

 

[Hopeful]

The command not to eat of the tree was spoken to Adam, not Eve. He disobeyed God's spoken command and brought sin into the world.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

Romans 5:16, "Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification."

1 Corinthians 15:21, "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man."

You need to read your Bible more carefully. Adam was responsible for sin and death coming into the world, not Eve.

BTW, I have been married for 53 years. My wife and are in harmony; neither one is subject to the other.

Eve was the first disobedient soul.
There is no harmony without subjection...in marriage.
Two cannot lead.

 

[jaybo]

I think it a pity that you are trying to reform the church according to present day culture.
Shouldn't it be the other way around?

Are you joking? Present day culture has given women a far better chance at being treated as equals, the way God created them before the fall, when Adam disobeyed God and brought sin and death to all people.

Genesis 2:18-24, "The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him.” The Lord God formed out of the ground every living animal of the field and every bird of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man named all the animals, the birds of the air, and the living creatures of the field, but for Adam no companion who corresponded to him was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This one at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and unites with his wife, and they become one family."

Where in this wonderful story do you see the dominance of man over woman???

Secondly, look at how Jesus regarded women. He loved them (and vice versa), healed them, made them His companions, and chose them to be the first people to announce His resurrection. We should follow His example instead of relying on modern cultural values that treat women as inferior.

Look at the relationship and status before the fall!

 

[Free]

Acts 2:18, "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy."

Acts 5:14, "Nevertheless, more and more men and women believed in the Lord and were added to their number."

Acts 8:12, "But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women."

Acts 17:4, "Some of the Jews were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a large number of God-fearing Greeks and quite a few prominent women."

Romans 16:12, "Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, those women who work hard in the Lord. Greet my dear friend Persis, another woman who has worked very hard in the Lord."

Philippians 4:3, "Yes, and I ask you, my true companion, help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."

Quite obviously, a lot changed after the Pentecost when the Holy Spirit was poured out on both men and women. And this was in a society when women were subservient to me, being considered little more than slaves.

Firstly, none of those address the very obvious point that Jesus never appointed a woman as one of the twelve. Secondly, none of those address whether or not women are to be in positions of exercising authority over men or teaching men in the assembled church.

 

[Free]

Jesus stands alone as the one who did not discriminate against women. Take the women caught in adultery, no discrimination there. Not so with the Jews who would have stoned her to death. By word or deed, Jesus had an equal relationship with all people regardless of gender. He interacted with the woman at the well, with a Syrophoenician woman in Mark 7:24-30 and in Matthew 15:21-28, "an unnamed Gentile woman taught Jesus that the ministry of God is not limited to particular groups and persons, but belongs to all who have faith."

The gospels often tell of Jesus speaking to women publicly and openly against the social norms of the time. From the beginning, Jewish women disciples, including Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Susanna, had accompanied Jesus during his ministry and supported him out of their private means.[Lk. 8:1-3] Several New Testament passages tell of female disciples. (Wiki)

Jesus asked the crowd, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" And stretching his hand towards his followers, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother." Matthew 12:46-50.

The Scriptures call both Miriam and Deborah a "prophetess" (Exodus 15:20, Judges 4:4). The Lord spoke to Miriam, Aaron and Moses as a threesome in the tabernacle (Numbers 12:4, Micah 6:4), and Deborah was a judge in Israel which is one of the functions of an apostle. So the precedent for women in leadership roles is firmly established in the Scriptures even within a culture where women were considered "second class." Also, Lydia in Acts 16 was a woman leader of her home church, and Aquilla and Priscilla were a husband-wife team that functioned as co-leaders at their local church (1 Cor. 16:19).

There is no discrimination in any way, shape or form in the Bible, but I am seeing it here. All those who follow Jesus are his brothers and sisters. He loves all those who follow Him. Can people on here call themselves disciples of Jesus? I am disturbed by what I read. I sincerely hope I am wrong.
.

All of this is a straw man and question begging. This is not about discrimination. It is about what God had ordained for the functioning of his Church.

 

[Free]

Are you joking? Present day culture has given women a far better chance at being treated as equals, the way God created them before the fall, when Adam disobeyed God and brought sin and death to all people.

Genesis 2:18-24, "The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a companion for him who corresponds to him.” The Lord God formed out of the ground every living animal of the field and every bird of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them, and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. So the man named all the animals, the birds of the air, and the living creatures of the field, but for Adam no companion who corresponded to him was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep, and while he was asleep, he took part of the man’s side and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This one at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and unites with his wife, and they become one family."

Where in this wonderful story do you see the dominance of man over woman???

Secondly, look at how Jesus regarded women. He loved them (and vice versa), healed them, made them His companions, and chose them to be the first people to announce His resurrection. We should follow His example instead of relying on modern cultural values that treat women as inferior.

Look at the relationship and status before the fall!

I've given it to you in several verses, which you have yet to address. Try Gen 3:16, for starters.

 

[jaybo]

Eve was the first disobedient soul.
There is no harmony without subjection...in marriage.
Two cannot lead.

God gave the command to eat to Adam, not Eve. And it was through his disobedience (not hers) that sin and death came to humans.

1 Corinthians 15:21, "For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man."

I don't know if you're married, but subjection to each other is the key to a successful marriage. Two can and should lead.

 

[Cooper]

All of this is a straw man and question begging. This is not about discrimination. It is about what God had ordained for the functioning of his Church.

So instead of discriminating against people, do as God has ordained.
.

 

[Cooper]

Firstly, none of those address the very obvious point that Jesus never appointed a woman as one of the twelve. Secondly, none of those address whether or not women are to be in positions of exercising authority over men or teaching men in the assembled church.

The twelve were only the inner circle.
.

 

[Cooper]

Eve was the first disobedient soul.
There is no harmony without subjection...in marriage.
Two cannot lead.

Two cannot lead, but two can agree, and then there is harmony.
.

 

[jaybo]

All of this is a straw man and question begging. This is not about discrimination. It is about what God had ordained for the functioning of his Church.

All of this is a straw man and question begging. This is not about discrimination. It is about what God had ordained for the functioning of his Church.

It is clearly about discrimination. There is no valid reason why women should be treated differently than men in or out of the church. God created them equal!

Before the fall... Genesis 2:23, "The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.”

After the fall... Genesis 3:12, "The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Can't you see the clear difference??? Before the fall Adam saw Eve as his equal, his partner. After the fall he blamed her for his disobedience. The spiritual separation is perfectly clear. God created them, man and woman, to be together in every sense of the word. After Adam ate the forbidden fruit and knew good from evil, he separated himself from Eve, whom he previously praised.

Are you really claiming that we should be like Adam? Or should we be in Christ?

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[Free]

So instead of discriminating against people, do as God has ordained.
.

You're begging the question. If God has ordained how his Church is to function, then it isn't discrimination if he says women aren't to exercise authority over men or teach men in church, anymore than it is discrimination that he has ordained that a husband is the spiritual head of the house and his wife is to be in submission to him.

 

[Free]

It is clearly about discrimination. There is no valid reason why women should be treated differently than men in or out of the church. God created them equal!

Before the fall... Genesis 2:23, "The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.”

After the fall... Genesis 3:12, "The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Can't you see the clear difference??? Before the fall Adam saw Eve as his equal, his partner. After the fall he blamed her for his disobedience. The spiritual separation is perfectly clear. God created them, man and woman, to be together in every sense of the word. After Adam ate the forbidden fruit and knew good from evil, he separated himself from Eve, whom he previously praised.

Are you really claiming that we should be like Adam? Or should we be in Christ?

Galatians 3:28, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

No, it is certainly not about discrimination, unless you want to believe that what God has ordained is discriminatory. Of course men and women are equal. That is not at all in question.

 

[jaybo]

Firstly, none of those address the very obvious point that Jesus never appointed a woman as one of the twelve. Secondly, none of those address whether or not women are to be in positions of exercising authority over men or teaching men in the assembled church.

Just what exactly are you afraid of? Do you think that if women exercise authority over men (as I'm sure your mother did to you and Mary did to Jesus) or teach men (as Jesus instructed Mary after His resurrection) that something terrible will happen?

Here is a story you might have missed...

"Now on the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran out, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no wine left." Jesus replied, “Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come.” His mother told the servants, “Whatever he tells you, do it.”

Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus told the servants. “Fill the water jars with water.” So they filled them up to the very top. Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the head steward,” and they did. When the head steward tasted the water that had been turned to wine, not knowing where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), he called the bridegroom and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the cheaper wine when the guests are drunk. You have kept the good wine until now!” Jesus did this as the first of his miraculous signs, in Cana of Galilee. In this way he revealed his glory, and his disciples believed in him."

Do you know what didn't happen? Jesus didn't say to His mother, "Who are you to tell me what to do? You're just a woman; I am a man. I am in charge, not you." He questioned her, then realized her authority and did exactly what she told Him to do.

If Jesus obeyed a woman, what's your problem?

 

[jaybo]

You're begging the question. If God has ordained how his Church is to function, then it isn't discrimination if he says women aren't to exercise authority over men or teach men in church, anymore than it is discrimination that he has ordained that a husband is the spiritual head of the house and his wife is to be in submission to him.

God created them EQUAL!!

 

[jaybo]

You're begging the question. If God has ordained how his Church is to function, then it isn't discrimination if he says women aren't to exercise authority over men or teach men in church, anymore than it is discrimination that he has ordained that a husband is the spiritual head of the house and his wife is to be in submission to him.

The church is the body of Christ. There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

What are you afraid of??? Does your pride prevent you from learning something from a woman?

God created men and women as equals. It was only after the fall that this separation, this hierarchy, came into being.

Genesis 2:22-24, "Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This one at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and unites with his wife, and they become one family."

Don't you understand this??? Look at Adam's attitude toward Eve before the fall!!! There is no dominance here! He didn't say, "Now I have a glorified servant who will not talk back and will do just as I say. Even though God has created her as my equal, she has no right to tell me what to do."

It is God's will that man and woman were created equal, both being made in His image. Discrimination and dominance are contrary to God's plan for humanity!

We are not living in the male-dominated world of the first century! God is allowing society to become more and more conformed to the way He created man and woman originally. Why are you trying to put people under the law???

 

[Free]

Just what exactly are you afraid of? Do you think that if women exercise authority over men (as I'm sure your mother did to you and Mary did to Jesus) or teach men (as Jesus instructed Mary after His resurrection) that something terrible will happen?

Again, with the straw man. If the Bible says that women are not to exercise authority over men or teach men in the assembled church, then that is simply that.

Here is a story you might have missed...

"Now on the third day there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples were also invited to the wedding. When the wine ran out, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no wine left." Jesus replied, “Woman, why are you saying this to me? My time has not yet come.” His mother told the servants, “Whatever he tells you, do it.”

Now there were six stone water jars there for Jewish ceremonial washing, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. Jesus told the servants. “Fill the water jars with water.” So they filled them up to the very top. Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the head steward,” and they did. When the head steward tasted the water that had been turned to wine, not knowing where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), he called the bridegroom and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the cheaper wine when the guests are drunk. You have kept the good wine until now!” Jesus did this as the first of his miraculous signs, in Cana of Galilee. In this way he revealed his glory, and his disciples believed in him."

Do you know what didn't happen? Jesus didn't say to His mother, "Who are you to tell me what to do? You're just a woman; I am a man. I am in charge, not you." He questioned her, then realized her authority and did exactly what she told Him to do.

If Jesus obeyed a woman, what's your problem?

I have no problem, other than your continual ignoring of context, which makes such use of a passage pointless.

 

[Free]

God created them EQUAL!!

Again, straw man. This is not the issue.

 

[Free]

The church is the body of Christ. There is neither male nor female in Christ Jesus.

What are you afraid of??? Does your pride prevent you from learning something from a woman?

God created men and women as equals. It was only after the fall that this separation, this hierarchy, came into being.

Genesis 2:22-24, "Then the Lord God made a woman from the part he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. Then the man said,

“This one at last is bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
this one will be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

That is why a man leaves his father and mother and unites with his wife, and they become one family."

Don't you understand this??? Look at Adam's attitude toward Eve before the fall!!! There is no dominance here! He didn't say, "Now I have a glorified servant who will not talk back and will do just as I say. Even though God has created her as my equal, she has no right to tell me what to do."

It is God's will that man and woman were created equal, both being made in His image. Discrimination and dominance are contrary to God's plan for humanity!

We are not living in the male-dominated world of the first century! God is allowing society to become more and more conformed to the way He created man and woman originally. Why are you trying to put people under the law???

Again, more straw men.