Sin Free?

[watchman F]

No one walks through this world without getting their feet dirty. In fact we need Jesus to cleanse us from the filth of this world on a daily basis. Who never has a bad thought here?

A bad thought isn't sin it is temptation, it is that second or third thought that gets you in trouble. When your thought turns to intent that is sin.

 

[watchman F]

I'm not so sure it was lost along the way. We are perfect in Christ, but we are being perfected in the flesh. We will never be "perfect" in ourselves until we have been given our glorified bodies.

This is not true the word of God tells us that we can indeed overcome sin here in this life, through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit of course.

 

[watchman F]

I think there is a difference between falling short and committing sin and actually continually practicing sin.

when we commit a sin, we confess, repent, are forgiven and commit that particular sin no more and there are sins we do not know about and as God brings them to our attention we confess, repent and are forgiven, as God reveals our sins become less and less.
Paul warns us about wilfully sinning in Hebrews.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Amen Darcy

 

[watchman F]

can any of us say we did not sin? you are confusing your flesh, with Christ in you, there is no sin found in Christ, Christ lives in you, so....
1 John 3:6
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

LOL Nope, I'm not confusing anything...except maybe you.
Now, are you saying you have no sin?

As I said...positionally, we are perfect in Christ Jesus.

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

I believe that if we are truly experiencing the new covenant, then we will have complete victory over sin. I also believe that the promises of reigning with Christ are only for the overcomers. It is the mature sons who receive the inheritance. Servants/slaves do not receive the inheritance. To be a full grown son, we must be made free.

Jesus said that all who sin are servants/slaves to sin, and the slave does not abide in the house for ever, but the son abides ever. Its the son that makes free. Jesus was made of the seed of David, made of woman, and made under the law, he was manifested to take away sin, to redeem those who were under the law.

So redeem means to free. Jesus redeems, or he frees us from the power of sin. If we are still sinning, then we are still sin's slave, we have not yet truly been redeemed.

So what people will say is that we are not to make sin a habit, but yet everyone sins. They do not truly believe the son can make us free indeed.

This doesn't mean we have already obtained, but we can obtain, and need to continue to move forward. Scripture says we can, and I believe it.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm not so sure it was lost along the way. We are perfect in Christ, but we are being perfected in the flesh. We will never be "perfect" in ourselves until we have been given our glorified bodies.

This is not true the word of God tells us that we can indeed overcome sin here in this life, through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit of course.

It certainly is true...otherwise God could have just sent the Holy Spirit and Jesus would have never needed to go to the cross.

There is sin that is going out of bounds, and there is sin that is missing the mark.
There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

God's standards are not those of men. Coming short of the glory of God is sin.
There has only ever been one man that could meet that standard...Jesus Christ.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I always find it interesting when man claims he doesn't sin, for by making that statement, he has shown a pride in his heart. Does he fall short of the glory of God? There is no man that doesn't. ;)
God sees our heart. We can dress up the outer man, but nothing is hidden from His sight.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

 

[DarcyLu]

I always find it interesting when man claims he doesn't sin, for by making that statement, he has shown a pride in his heart. Does he fall short of the glory of God? There is no man that doesn't. ;)
God sees our heart. We can dress up the outer man, but nothing is hidden from His sight.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

i do not recall any one in this thread saying they do not sin or have not sinned or that sin has not been a problem, or has never been a problem, etc.

the discussion is NOT about - do we sin?

it is

CAN WE OVERCOME AND DEFEAT SIN?

that is the discussion.

 

[DarcyLu]

No one walks through this world without getting their feet dirty. In fact we need Jesus to cleanse us from the filth of this world on a daily basis. Who never has a bad thought here?

Hi ronnie

Correct ! Now you who have no sin cast the first stone ! <Ouch> :crazy --- Okay, who threw that stone ? :mad :rolling

again, no one in this thread has said they do not sin or have never sinned, did you read the OP?

the discussion is

CAN WE OVERCOME AND DEFEAT SIN?

 

[watchman F]

I'm not so sure it was lost along the way. We are perfect in Christ, but we are being perfected in the flesh. We will never be "perfect" in ourselves until we have been given our glorified bodies.

This is not true the word of God tells us that we can indeed overcome sin here in this life, through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit of course.

It certainly is true...otherwise God could have just sent the Holy Spirit and Jesus would have never needed to go to the cross.

There is sin that is going out of bounds, and there is sin that is missing the mark.
There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Whatever is not of faith is sin.

God's standards are not those of men. Coming short of the glory of God is sin.
There has only ever been one man that could meet that standard...Jesus Christ.
[quote="Romans 3:23":1guskzzq]For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

I always find it interesting when man claims he doesn't sin, for by making that statement, he has shown a pride in his heart. Does he fall short of the glory of God? There is no man that doesn't. ;)
God sees our heart. We can dress up the outer man, but nothing is hidden from His sight.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

[/quote:1guskzzq]Jesus had to die because human have all sinned. That doesn;t mean that God after forgiving us of our past sin, cannot keep us from future sin. Do you limit God's ability to keep those who fear His name from sin?

 

[Mysteryman]

No one walks through this world without getting their feet dirty. In fact we need Jesus to cleanse us from the filth of this world on a daily basis. Who never has a bad thought here?

Hi ronnie

Correct ! Now you who have no sin cast the first stone ! <Ouch> :crazy --- Okay, who threw that stone ? :mad :rolling

again, no one in this thread has said they do not sin or have never sinned, did you read the OP?

the discussion is

CAN WE OVERCOME AND DEFEAT SIN?

LOL - You were suppose to see the humor in it. :yes I'm you understand ?

And 'no' you can not defeat sin. You can choose, but every man falls short of the glory of God. If any man say he has no sin, that person deceives themselves, and the truth is not in any person who claims that they can defeat sin - I John 1:8

We need to confess where we fall short - I John 1:9

 

[DarcyLu]

LOL - You were suppose to see the humor in it. :yes I'm you understand ?

And 'no' you can not defeat sin. You can choose, but every man falls short of the glory of God. If any man say he has no sin, that person deceives themselves, and the truth is not in any person who claims that they can defeat sin - I John 1:8

We need to confess where we fall short - I John 1:9

LOL, yeah now i can see that it is kind of funny, i was reading it that you were saying we are saying we don't or have never sinned. i hope you are now as confused as i am.

i do not believe WE can defeat sin, but Christ in us, can. as WE are dead and now are alive in Christ - Amen!

 

[watchman F]

Hi ronnie

Correct ! Now you who have no sin cast the first stone ! <Ouch> :crazy --- Okay, who threw that stone ? :mad :rolling

again, no one in this thread has said they do not sin or have never sinned, did you read the OP?

the discussion is

CAN WE OVERCOME AND DEFEAT SIN?

LOL - You were suppose to see the humor in it. :yes I'm you understand ?

And 'no' you can not defeat sin. You can choose, but every man falls short of the glory of God. If any man say he has no sin, that person deceives themselves, and the truth is not in any person who claims that they can defeat sin - I John 1:8

We need to confess where we fall short - I John 1:9

So you are saying God is too weak to keep us from falling? Well that is not what scripture says.


Scripture that tells us to live sinless lives
Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Rom 6:20-22
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life

2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Ephesians 4:17-32
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Do Not Grieve the Spirit
25 Therefore, putting away lying, “ Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,â€[e] for we are members of one another.
26 “Be angry, and do not sin†do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.

1st Thessalonians 5:22 Abstain from every form of evil.

1st Peter 1:16 Because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.â€

1st John 3:3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.




Scriptures that say we are able to live sinlessly
Romans 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit

1st Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil

Jude 24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless, Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy




Scriptures that tell us to be humble while pursuing perfection
Phil 3:12-15
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me.
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead,
14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you.

1st Corinthians 9:26-27
26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

1st Corinthians 10:12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.

1st Corinthians 15:31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily




All thing are possible with God
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.â€

 

[glorydaz]

I always find it interesting when man claims he doesn't sin, for by making that statement, he has shown a pride in his heart. Does he fall short of the glory of God? There is no man that doesn't. ;)
God sees our heart. We can dress up the outer man, but nothing is hidden from His sight.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

i do not recall any one in this thread saying they do not sin or have not sinned or that sin has not been a problem, or has never been a problem, etc.

the discussion is NOT about - do we sin?

it is

CAN WE OVERCOME AND DEFEAT SIN?

that is the discussion.

I don't know...perhaps you're demonstrating my point for me. :yes

I'm saying man can never defeat or overcome sin by his own efforts, because we will always come short of the glory of God. We are overcomers because Jesus overcame and defeated sin. Not because we overcome and defeat sin.

 

[Cornelius]

yes

I'm saying man can never defeat or overcome sin by his own efforts, because we will always come short of the glory of God. We are overcomers because Jesus overcame and defeated sin. Not because we overcome and defeat sin.

If Jesus defeated sin in us , then we must be free from sin If He overcame it for us, it is obviously not meant for heaven as it would really be a bit useless there. He overcame so that we can overcome too: manifestly in THIS life.

Let it be to you according to your faith.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Watchman: "So you are saying God is too weak to keep us from falling? Well that is not what scripture says."

HI

The Word tells us that the Spirit is willing, but he flesh is weak. This does not mean, that we can't grow in the Lord. We can ! Its called the renewed mind. But lets not allow ourselves to be tricked in our minds. The Word is also clear , that every man falls short of the glory of God.

I also try and live by the reality of the scriptures. And what I mean by that, is that reality , or logos thinking, tells us that we will fall short, because the flesh is weak. It also tells us that we have an advocate with the Father, and he is Jesus Christ the righteous. - I John 2:1

And the reality (logos) of the word tells us - I John 1:10 - "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us"

All I am trying to say, is to live by the "logos" of the Word. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Bless and Peace

IN Christ - MM

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus had to die because human have all sinned. That doesn;t mean that God after forgiving us of our past sin, cannot keep us from future sin. Do you limit God's ability to keep those who fear His name from sin?

I don't doubt God's ability to keep us. I simply believe God when He tells us "All men sin and come short of the glory of God." We must put on Christ's perfection until we are raised in our incorruptible bodies.

By making the claim that we can even come close to the glory of God, we condemn ourselves with our mouth and we're proven perverse.

If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead? If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse. Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

We are justified by our faith...Christ's righteousness is imputed to us.
If we think it's our own righteousness, we are in error.

He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

So we no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh...well and good.
We still have "self" to deal with. Our body is simply the shell for our soul.
We have to empty the self totally and allow Christ to fill us fully.
Do we have our every thought under subjection?
I've yet to see that in any man. Even Paul pressed on...admitting he had not yet obtained.

 

[glorydaz]

yes

I'm saying man can never defeat or overcome sin by his own efforts, because we will always come short of the glory of God. We are overcomers because Jesus overcame and defeated sin. Not because we overcome and defeat sin.

If Jesus defeated sin in us , then we must be free from sin If He overcame it for us, it is obviously not meant for heaven as it would really be a bit useless there. He overcame so that we can overcome too: manifestly in THIS life.

Let it be to you according to your faith.

We are positionally free from sin. There is a difference.
My faith is quite the equal of yours, brother, and I'm sure your walk is no freer from sin than mine.
All men sin and come short of the glory of God.

We are overcomers when we're born again by faith...not when we no longer sin.

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

 

[watchman F]

i do not recall any one in this thread saying they do not sin or have not sinned or that sin has not been a problem, or has never been a problem, etc.

the discussion is NOT about - do we sin?

it is

CAN WE OVERCOME AND DEFEAT SIN?

that is the discussion.

Can we defeat sin in this life? YES. Can we do it by our own efforts? NO. It is God through Christ that can and will (if we allow Him to) deliver us from the bondage of sin.

I don't know...perhaps you're demonstrating my point for me. :yes

I'm saying man can never defeat or overcome sin by his own efforts, because we will always come short of the glory of God. We are overcomers because Jesus overcame and defeated sin. Not because we overcome and defeat sin.[/quote]

 

[watchman F]

Jesus had to die because human have all sinned. That doesn;t mean that God after forgiving us of our past sin, cannot keep us from future sin. Do you limit God's ability to keep those who fear His name from sin?

I don't doubt God's ability to keep us. I simply believe God when He tells us "All men sin and come short of the glory of God."

Right here you have missed quoted this verse.
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
This says we have sinned ''past tense''and have come short of the glory of God ''past tense''. this does not say we must continue in sin or that God cannot or will not perfect us in this life time.

 

[watchman F]

I have already given you the scripture that tells us God can keep us from sinning. Why do you doubt God, and His word?

 

[watchman F]

yes

I'm saying man can never defeat or overcome sin by his own efforts, because we will always come short of the glory of God. We are overcomers because Jesus overcame and defeated sin. Not because we overcome and defeat sin.

If Jesus defeated sin in us , then we must be free from sin If He overcame it for us, it is obviously not meant for heaven as it would really be a bit useless there. He overcame so that we can overcome too: manifestly in THIS life.

Let it be to you according to your faith.

Amen Cornelius.