Sin Free?

[DarcyLu]

Indeed, we are no longer under the bondage of sin...it has no more dominion over us.
But remember, God's standards are not ours. His are higher.

well, yes, His standards are higher - they are Jesus standard lol and who are we to manifest, glory, who lives in you?

why are you so eager to take on and hold on to the label of "sinner"? God has higher standards for you, as you say.

You're wrong. I don't hold on to the label of sinner. I'm perfect in Christ Jesus because he became sin for me. It's His perfection...not mine or yours. I'm seeing a lot of self-deception on this thread...a denial of justification by faith. I'm seeing people trusting in their own righteousness, thinking they can attain perfection. The perfection we have is His alone. The more you boast in your own ability to be free from sin the more your pride comes shining through. Pride in one's own righteousness is sin.

Man's righteousness is filthy rags...before the cross and after the cross.
The pharisees considered themselves perfect as well, yet God sees into the heart. :yes

glory,
please understand that i am not saying it is me who does not sin, it is Christ in me, i am dead, dead, dead, Christ is who is alive in me - He is the one who does not sin, it is He, not "i" as "i" am dead.
I am not boasting within myself as my self is dead.
even if you can not see what i am saying here - you really are confusing our flesh (which is dead) with Christ, who is alive in us. "i" have nothing to do with - it is all HIM, He gets ALL the glory, He gets all the praise.

 

[ronniechoate34]

Why don't we do the things that we used to do and why don't we think like we did before our conversion? It's because of the power of the Holy Ghost and the fact that it's at work in us. But sadly according to the Word of God we are not going to all produce the same amount of fruit nor are we all going to be as strong as the next man.


Pride destroys true fellowship and misses the point of grace altogether. It's fine to judge what's right, but we can't judge the heart's of our brothers in Christ.


Of course it's possible for us to overcome sinful desires. I have done it myself many times. I have not done so as often as I would like to have done so. I know my weaknesses and so does the Lord. I pray for my escape and often find it while other times their appears to have been none. Does the Lord chasten me when I sin? Yeah.



No one here can set me free from any sins I have committed or that I may commit in the future.



It's nice that some of you have been blessed with purity and are now without sin. But you who are pure and not in need of the cleansing are not encouraging to those of us who are poorer in spirit and who are your weaker brothers in Christ. Why not edify instead of tearing down the hopes of those who may feel the need to repent more often and are not so pious as yourselves?

 

[Cornelius]

John 1:1 wrote:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Of course this where we all have to start. It does not say that this is where we finish. If this is the verse that we must live by all through our lives, then yes..........carry on sinning. But no, we indeed have verses like "reckon yourself DEAD to sin" and " I HAVE BEEN crucified with Christ and no longer live" (Dead men do not sin) and many others that make it clear that we can and indeed MUST overcome sin.

Keep working at it then, brother.

You'd best start with selling all you have and giving to the poor.
Then you can live totally by faith...trusting and obeying the Lord with every waking thought.
Until then...it just talk.

I have nothing extra to sell, I only have the roof over my head LOL. I believe in sharing what I have with my Christian brothers and sisters. I have no insurance, no retirement policies, I give when I see a need and sometimes that takes what I have , but then God gives back again and so we carry on.I do not have a "nest-egg" saved for a "rainy day" because God is my supply. How can I have money saved when I have brothers and sisters who are in need NOW. I look after my own and those around me, like the Bible tells us to do.
I have been living by faith for a long time now. You are making a judgment on my life without knowing how I live.

 

[Cornelius]

Why don't we do the things that we used to do and why don't we think like we did before our conversion? It's because of the power of the Holy Ghost and the fact that it's at work in us. But sadly according to the Word of God we are not going to all produce the same amount of fruit nor are we all going to be as strong as the next man.


Pride destroys true fellowship and misses the point of grace altogether. It's fine to judge what's right, but we can't judge the heart's of our brothers in Christ.


Of course it's possible for us to overcome sinful desires. I have done it myself many times. I have not done so as often as I would like to have done so. I know my weaknesses and so does the Lord. I pray for my escape and often find it while other times their appears to have been none. Does the Lord chasten me when I sin? Yeah.



No one here can set me free from any sins I have committed or that I may commit in the future.



It's nice that some of you have been blessed with purity and are now without sin. But you who are pure and not in need of the cleansing are not encouraging to those of us who are poorer in spirit and who are your weaker brothers in Christ. Why not edify instead of tearing down the hopes of those who may feel the need to repent more often and are not so pious as yourselves?

Brother, nobody here has been blessed with purity above that which has been given to all believers. I have also not seen anybody tearing down hopes, but I have seen people standing on the Word.That should be encouraging by itself for those who want to do the same. God is not a respecter of persons, so we are all free to believe the Word .

The question asked is : CAN a Christian overcome sin? And the Bible says: Yes they can.

But what we have been taught in our churches is the opposite to the Bible truth. Now many are stuck and not able to receive the truth. We find ways to sound spiritual, while we are denying the truth. That is working against what God has for us. Normally one would think that if somebody says " Yes we can overcome sin" that those Christians who battle with sin, would come running saying "Tell me how" but in reality they do not. The message that comes across is : "Leave us be, we are happy where we are"

 

[glorydaz]

1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

This verse is addressed to the self-deceivers who believe they remain justified after they?ve transgressed the law of God. These Christians are dead men walking. It doesn?t even work that way with man?s laws. How much more will God enforce the death penalty of sin for those who?ve mocked the sacrifice of His Son by continuing to do that which He died to save us from (Heb.10:26-29; 12:25, 28-29)? I can?t stress enough; only past sins are forgiven: “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God (Rom.3:25).†“Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death (Jas.1:15).†“But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall (2 Pt.1:9-10).â€

So you're claiming Christ's death on the cross was only for some sins?
Let's just address the scriptures you put forth...

You're putting your own beliefs in place of what John is saying. John is speaking to believers...who know they still sin even after they are saved. We're to confess our sins in order to be purified...not saved. We're saved when we're born again. Now we are dealt with as sons...

Let's look at Romans first...If you read this verse in context, you will see that Paul is clear Christ's righteousness is given to all who believe. The sins that are "past" are not an individual's sins because it was through the "forbearance of God". Because all the past sins..prior to Jesus...were not dealt with, God was enduring something. What would that be? He was enduring the injustice of sins undealt with. He endured the injustice of sins undealt with until Jesus came.

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Peter is talking about being barren and unfruitful...not to forget how God had purged them from their "old sins", and to give diligence so they would not fall. This has nothing to do with only their past sins being forgiven and falling does not equate to losing one's salvation.

For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Forever means just that.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

 

[glorydaz]

No one walks through this world without getting their feet dirty. In fact we need Jesus to cleanse us from the filth of this world on a daily basis. Who never has a bad thought here?

A bad thought isn't sin it is temptation, it is that second or third thought that gets you in trouble. When your thought turns to intent that is sin.

I disagree. Us fallen men are given to bad thoughts in the first place. A bad thought, no matter how fleeting, is still sin. I doubt if the angels in heaven ever offend God with bad thoughts. We are fallen beings that are prone to sin.


Guess what. God finds us offensive no matter how great we think that we are. We could never be good enough to stand before Him without Jesus to cover our sins. Whether a person believes they have sin or not is not the matter.What matters is that we all have sin and we all need Jesus Christ to live through it.

:amen

 

[DarcyLu]

It's nice that some of you have been blessed with purity and are now without sin. But you who are pure and not in need of the cleansing are not encouraging to those of us who are poorer in spirit and who are your weaker brothers in Christ. Why not edify instead of tearing down the hopes of those who may feel the need to repent more often and are not so pious as yourselves?

as mentioned before, this is discussed in the OP, we all have struggled with sin and do i still sin? yes, can i overcome and defeat sin? YES!

the OP is not asking - do you still sin?

the OP is asking us

Can we overcome and defeat sin?
YES! we can.

it seems when people are behaving like conquerors in Christ and when people walk in the boldness of Spirit, then others deem it as pride.

 

[glorydaz]

No, we are not dead to our sins. The Word tells us in Romans 6:11 to - "reckon" yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin"

You will only be totally dead to any sinfulness of the flesh, when you are truly dead.

We are suppose to walk in the Spirit, which is the way in which we can only please God.

We have Christ in us, and we are suppose to walk in the Spirit. But only Jesus Christ can and did accomplish walking only in the Spirit, for he knew no sin.

But we are still in the flesh, and we still know sin. And we pray and believe that we sin not. But if we say we have no sin, or can not sin, we deceive ourselves. And what will happen, is that one believes they can not sin, and when they do sin, be it a sin willfully or unwillingly . They will claim that they can not sin, thus the sin they commited, is not sin, based upon the false premise that they can not sin. And anyone who believes that they can not sin, not only deceives themselves, but they also deceive others as well. Because even a half truth is a lie, and many will tell half truths, without even considering that this is exactly what they are doing.

Plus - In Galatians 6:1 - "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness ; considering thyself, lest thou also be temped"

Galatians 6:7 & 8 - "Be not deceived ; God is not mocked : for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap" --- "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption ; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting" < This is not talking about work to get saved. It is talking about working out your salvation with trembling and fear. The word "reap" here is dealing with rewards.

Amen...The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life are ever before us.
Do we want what we don't have, do we think our righteous deeds make us holy, or do we think anything good comes from ourselves or we're better than others? We are still in the flesh...we still react soulishly when we pat ourselves on the back for avoiding the sin that so easily besets us. Man is ever striving and seldom emptying himself.

You said it very well..."You will only be totally dead to any sinfulness of the flesh, when you are truly dead."

 

[DarcyLu]

It's nice that some of you have been blessed with purity and are now without sin. But you who are pure and not in need of the cleansing are not encouraging to those of us who are poorer in spirit and who are your weaker brothers in Christ. Why not edify instead of tearing down the hopes of those who may feel the need to repent more often and are not so pious as yourselves?

i do not recall anyone saying they have never struggled with sin and yes, unfortunately, God still convicts me of sin.

however, the OP question is not about - do you sin?

it's about

CAN WE DEFEAT SIN? yes we can!

when Christians behave and walk as they know they are conquerors in Christ and walk boldly in the Spirit, then other's deem it as "pride".

 

[glorydaz]

It's nice that some of you have been blessed with purity and are now without sin. But you who are pure and not in need of the cleansing are not encouraging to those of us who are poorer in spirit and who are your weaker brothers in Christ. Why not edify instead of tearing down the hopes of those who may feel the need to repent more often and are not so pious as yourselves?

as mentioned before, this is discussed in the OP, we all have struggled with sin and do i still sin? yes, can i overcome and defeat sin? YES!

the OP is not asking - do you still sin?

the OP is asking us

Can we overcome and defeat sin?
YES! we can.

it seems when people are behaving like conquerors in Christ and when people walk in the boldness of Spirit, then others deem it as pride.

It is pride. There was only one perfect man....There will never be another, which is why He came and died on the cross. Walking in the boldness of the Spirit does not mean we can overcome and defeat sin. It means we give all the glory to the ONE who overcame and defeated sin for us.

 

[Cornelius]

when Christians behave and walk as they know they are conquerors in Christ and walk boldly in the Spirit, then other's deem it as "pride".

Sadly , you are correct.

 

[Cornelius]

It is pride. There was only one perfect man....There will never be another, which is why He came and died on the cross. Walking in the boldness of the Spirit does not mean we can overcome and defeat sin. It means we give all the glory to the ONE who overcame and defeated sin for us.

It sounds spiritual but it is a lie what you are writing here.Its that powerless, sad little gospel you are preaching.

Php 4:13 I can do all things in him that strengtheneth me. that would include overcoming sin. What does "all things" exclude. Please read your Bible.

 

[glorydaz]

glory,
please understand that i am not saying it is me who does not sin, it is Christ in me, i am dead, dead, dead, Christ is who is alive in me - He is the one who does not sin, it is He, not "i" as "i" am dead.
I am not boasting within myself as my self is dead.
even if you can not see what i am saying here - you really are confusing our flesh (which is dead) with Christ, who is alive in us. "i" have nothing to do with - it is all HIM, He gets ALL the glory, He gets all the praise.

Again, I am not confusing our flesh with Christ in us. :nag

I see very clearly that "Christ in us" is righteous.
Does that mean that because Christ is in us we are unable to sin?
No, it means that His righteousness covers our sin.

It isn't necessary for you to continue to tell me I'm confused...you're wrong.
I'm not the least bit confused. Perhaps you aren't understanding what I'm saying, but the confusion isn't mine then, is it?

 

[DarcyLu]

Amen...The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life are ever before us.

Do we want what we don't have, do we think our righteous deeds make us holy, or do we think anything good comes from ourselves or we're better than others? We are still in the flesh...we still react soulishly when we pat ourselves on the back for avoiding the sin that so easily besets us. Man is ever striving and seldom emptying himself.
[/quote]
show me, anywhere in this thread, that anyone said our righteous acts make us holy - in fact, you ignored my post where i discussed this very thing - He gets all the glory and praise, He makes us holy.

if you are going to add to our words and debate without integrity, the veracity of this conversation has been lost.

 

[glorydaz]

It is pride. There was only one perfect man....There will never be another, which is why He came and died on the cross. Walking in the boldness of the Spirit does not mean we can overcome and defeat sin. It means we give all the glory to the ONE who overcame and defeated sin for us.

It sounds spiritual but it is a lie what you are writing here.Its that powerless, sad little gospel you are preaching.

Php 4:13 I can do all things in him that strengtheneth me. that would include overcoming sin. What does "all things" exclude. Please read your Bible.

My, my....you just keep digging yourself a deeper hole.
I see spiritual pride rearing it's ugly head.

You can suggest I read my Bible if it makes you feel better, but it only goes to prove perfection is a long way off for those who claim it's within reach.

 

[Mysteryman]

Everyone has said a lot of great things on this subject today.

But, from what I am gathering within the whole of the conversations, is this >>

The question has been possed, "Can we defeat sin" ?

This seems to be the stickler and what everyone seems to be trying to dance around.

Only Christ has defeated sin, and one day he will defeat the last enemy which is death.

There is one very good reason as to why we recognize sin, and that is because God has written his commandments on our hearts. We are the walking commandments (if you will). Now we need to also realize, that having the commandments in our hearts, we will have shame prior to committing any sin.

This means that we have no excuses when we do sin. We can ask for forgiveness, this we know and understand. But God will hold us accountable because of the fact, that no one can say - "I didn't know" !

 

[glorydaz]

Amen...The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life are ever before us.

Do we want what we don't have, do we think our righteous deeds make us holy, or do we think anything good comes from ourselves or we're better than others? We are still in the flesh...we still react soulishly when we pat ourselves on the back for avoiding the sin that so easily besets us. Man is ever striving and seldom emptying himself.

show me, anywhere in this thread, that anyone said our righteous acts make us holy - in fact, you ignored my post where i discussed this very thing - He gets all the glory and praise, He makes us holy.

if you are going to add to our words and debate without integrity, the veracity of this conversation has been lost.

Calm yourself down...take a deep breath.

I have answered your posts. I'm glad He's making you holy.

 

[DarcyLu]

Calm yourself down...take a deep breath.

I have answered your posts. I'm glad He's making you holy.

oh, i see that you did, sorry, it seems we will never agree on this subject.

 

[DarcyLu]

Everyone has said a lot of great things on this subject today.

But, from what I am gathering within the whole of the conversations, is this >>

The question has been possed, "Can we defeat sin" ?

This seems to be the stickler and what everyone seems to be trying to dance around.

not dancing around it, MM, answering it as best as i can with a resounding YES WE CAN! :yes

 

[glorydaz]

I have nothing extra to sell, I only have the roof over my head LOL. I believe in sharing what I have with my Christian brothers and sisters. I have no insurance, no retirement policies, I give when I see a need and sometimes that takes what I have , but then God gives back again and so we carry on.I do not have a "nest-egg" saved for a "rainy day" because God is my supply. How can I have money saved when I have brothers and sisters who are in need NOW. I look after my own and those around me, like the Bible tells us to do.
I have been living by faith for a long time now. You are making a judgment on my life without knowing how I live.

I'm merely stating what is common to man. I don't need to hear what you have or don't have. I'm sure you're doing the best you can with what the Lord has given you. Is it enough to make you perfect or without sin? I would hope you know that you're not...none of us are. The Lord sees into our heart...He reveals more every single day because there is always something else that needs to be purged.