Sin Free?

[Cornelius]

Oh it worked LOL he is now a real mysteryman to me......gone off my screen. Its only the second time in all my years on forums, that I placed somebody on ignore.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi all

Where you have fallen short of knowledge and understanding Watchman, and others, is when you think that "we can be redeemed from the bondage of son. It is not that we can be, it is that we have been !

You need to put this in the past tense, not the present tense !

We "have" been redeemed, we have been justified, we have been set free from the bondage of sin, we have been sanctified, we have been set free from the bondage of death. < All past tense !

The crazy thing is you say we have been redeemed past tense, but you do not even believe we can be present tense. Just to prove it I will ask you this. Do you believe that you can in this life live a perfectly obedient life before God through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.


If your answer is no (which I know it is because of your previous post) You do not believe that we can be redeemed much less have been past tense.

Hi W

This is where you are totally in error ! Being redeemed is an accomplishment not done of by my own power. God accomplished this already. So it is past tense. I have been redeemed already. I no longer need to be redeemed. I was dead in my sins, just like you and everyone else was. And neither you nor I myself accomplished being redeemed from sin. We didn't then, and we can't now ! We need to believe that our redemption is not of ourselves !

We can not lead a perfect obedient life before God - NO !

We can however strive towards the mastery. < I Corinth. 9:25 so that I can receive an incorruptible crown.

Then Paul reminds the Church in I Corinth. 10:1 - 12 and in verse 12 it states - "Wherefore , let him that thinketh he standeth , take heed lest he fall"

 

[Cornelius]

WE are indeed suppose to walk in the Spirit. But our flesh is not dead yet !

It will not be dead until you reckon it to be dead. Your mouth is killing your faith brother. You are SAYING the opposite of what the Word says. You are double minded. Choose one and stick to it !

Choose one of these:

1) I am not dead in my flesh

or

2) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me:

We only get to choose and confess one of these. And then it will be to you according to your faith !

Maybe you're not understanding the difference between being dead to the flesh spiritually, and being a dead body in the grave. You can claim to be dead to sin, but we still see you sinning. You can confess whatever you like, but it doesn't mean it's been manifest in the world we live in at present.

We're seated with Christ in the heavenlies, too....but, guess what? Our body is still here.
Spiritually, we are dead to sin, but our body and mind are still here in this corruptible body of sin.

Tell me, how do you know you are saved?

 

[Mysteryman]

No one can claim that he/she is perfect in the flesh.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Even Paul would disagree with the idea that we can become perfect in the flesh.
[/quote]There is a difference between being made perfect while we are still in our flesh, and being made perfect by our flesh. Can we by our own power through our own flesh become perfect? No that is impossible. Can we become perfected while still in this flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us? Absolutely, more over god has given us this promise, all we have to do in walk in it.[/quote]

Hi

So you are singing a different tune now ? What happened to the old you, that said we could "defeat" sin ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that we can not "defeat" sin ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that the "we can" phrase you used, is now outdated ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that everything is in the past tense and not the present tense ?

And if no to any of these questions, then why not ?[/quote]We can walk in our victory, or we can do as you do and refuse to accept the fact that we are able to.[/quote]

Hi W

I can do all things through Christ which stengtheth me. But that does not mean that I will do all things. I can, and I know that it is possible. But I also know I will fall short. I take this all in stride in my walk. It is actually a part of our growth. If we believe we "have" attained a perfect walk, we only deceive ourselves.

 

[Godfrey]

We are not sin-free, but we are accounted righteous because of our faith.
This is what being justified by faith means. This is how Christ's righteousness is imputed unto us.
When God looks at us, He sees the blood and the death angel passes over us. Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us.

Amen!

I like your analogy.

I pinched it from Steve Goss.

 

[glorydaz]

Actually Paul does say we can stop sinning just not by our own power.
Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh can fulfill the righteousness of the law (stop sinning)

Moreover Paul said.
Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

It can be done if we walk in the Spirit of Christ and not fulfill the lust of our flesh

Fulfilling the righteousness of the law does not mean we "stop sinning".
It means Jesus fulfilled the law and through Him we take on His righteousness.

Those who are born again submit themselves to the righteousness of God. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that "believeth". We're not to set about establishing our own righteousness, but we submit to the Spirit's leading and fruit will be manifest in our lives. This doesn't mean we still won't disobey...else we would never need to be chastened by God. Without the chastening of God, we would never be refined and would have no need to press on to the mark of the "HIGH" calling of God. We come short of the glory of God...Jesus alone met that standard.

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

[glorydaz]

Because of your incredible bad attitude and manner, your lack scriptural knowledge too, I am placing you on ignore. You contribute nothing edifying and your posts bring no hope to a living soul.

C

I'm sorry, brother, but you did call him "double-minded" first.
This is what happens when we see sin in others but not in ourselves.
No one is exempt from bad attitudes. You retalitated with saying he has a "lack of scriptural knowledge". You've done the same with me, but you don't seem to see what you do.

As I see it, he is simply attempting to show you that it's one thing to claim we can be sin-free, and it's another to actually be sin-free. We can make any claim we want, but it doesn't mean it's a fact. As I said earlier...positionionally, we are righteous and blameless...complete (perfect) in Christ.

 

[Cornelius]

Because of your incredible bad attitude and manner, your lack scriptural knowledge too, I am placing you on ignore. You contribute nothing edifying and your posts bring no hope to a living soul.

C

I'm sorry, brother, but you did call him "double-minded" first.
This is what happens when we see sin in others but not in ourselves.
No one is exempt from bad attitudes. You retalitated with saying he has a "lack of scriptural knowledge". You've done the same with me, but you don't seem to see what you do.

As I see it, he is simply attempting to show you that it's one thing to claim we can be sin-free, and it's another to actually be sin-free. We can make any claim we want, but it doesn't mean it's a fact. As I said earlier...positionionally, we are righteous and blameless...complete (perfect) in Christ.

I post with him in another forum. I know him well.

 

[Cornelius]

I'm sorry, brother, but you did call him "double-minded" first.
.

I wish somebody called me double minded when I was. It would have helped me and saved me a lot of heartache . But these days nobody is wrong anymore.

When somebody is double minded, they are double minded and they will not receive anything. Anyway, this has nothing to do with you its between him and I.

 

[glorydaz]

It will not be dead until you reckon it to be dead. Your mouth is killing your faith brother. You are SAYING the opposite of what the Word says. You are double minded. Choose one and stick to it !

Choose one of these:

1) I am not dead in my flesh

or

2) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me:

We only get to choose and confess one of these. And then it will be to you according to your faith !

Maybe you're not understanding the difference between being dead to the flesh spiritually, and being a dead body in the grave. You can claim to be dead to sin, but we still see you sinning. You can confess whatever you like, but it doesn't mean it's been manifest in the world we live in at present.

We're seated with Christ in the heavenlies, too....but, guess what? Our body is still here.
Spiritually, we are dead to sin, but our body and mind are still here in this corruptible body of sin.

Tell me, how do you know you are saved?

That's an easy one. I have the assurance of the Holy Spirit leading and guiding me every day of my life. Those who have fellowship with God are not in any doubt of their salvation. :amen

 

[glorydaz]

I'm sorry, brother, but you did call him "double-minded" first.
.

I wish somebody called me double minded when I was. It would have helped me and saved me a lot of heartache . But these days nobody is wrong anymore.

When somebody is double minded, they are double minded and they will not receive anything. Anyway, this has nothing to do with you its between him and I.

True, but you have said similar things to me, and I would say you shouldn't be making such claims.
You are not the judge of whether someone reads the Word or whether their mind is "double" simply because they don't agree with you. I happen to agree whole-heartedly with his thinking on this issue...in fact most believers do. Just saying......

 

[Mysteryman]

Because of your incredible bad attitude and manner, your lack scriptural knowledge too, I am placing you on ignore. You contribute nothing edifying and your posts bring no hope to a living soul.

C

I'm sorry, brother, but you did call him "double-minded" first.
This is what happens when we see sin in others but not in ourselves.
No one is exempt from bad attitudes. You retalitated with saying he has a "lack of scriptural knowledge". You've done the same with me, but you don't seem to see what you do.

As I see it, he is simply attempting to show you that it's one thing to claim we can be sin-free, and it's another to actually be sin-free. We can make any claim we want, but it doesn't mean it's a fact. As I said earlier...positionionally, we are righteous and blameless...complete (perfect) in Christ.

I post with him in another forum. I know him well.

Indeed ? Does anything we say here on a certain topic reflect your attitude towards me , from something I have said on another site ? If so why ?

Why can't we handle this topic in and of itself ?

Have you now pre judged me from previous conversations ? And how does this help resolve the issue at hand ?

I agree with glorydaz, in that it is one thing to say you can be freed from sin, and it is another to say that you are free of sinning.

I believe that if one believes that they can attain a sin free life, that they deceive themselves, because of the warnings we have received within scripture . Take heed , lest you fall. Warnings such as this, should not be ignored.

And truths should not be ignored as well - All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

But I know many will ignore the warnings and the truths, because they want to abide by their own set of rules .

If this is all we have to say to one another, so be it. Go in peace.

 

[Cornelius]

I'm sorry, brother, but you did call him "double-minded" first.
.

I wish somebody called me double minded when I was. It would have helped me and saved me a lot of heartache . But these days nobody is wrong anymore.

When somebody is double minded, they are double minded and they will not receive anything. Anyway, this has nothing to do with you its between him and I.

True, but you have said similar things to me, and I would say you shouldn't be making such claims.
You are not the judge of whether someone reads the Word or whether their mind is "double" simply because they don't agree with you. I happen to agree whole-heartedly with his thinking on this issue...in fact most believers do. Just saying......

I have said what I needed to say. This thread seems to have reached its end. Those who have ears will hear .

blessings
C

 

[DarcyLu]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect. Is there a difference? Yes there is.

No one can claim that he/she is perfect in the flesh.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Even Paul would disagree with the idea that we can become perfect in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

Romans 7:15-25
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

Paul never says he can stop sinning. He also thanks God that that those who are in Jesus have their sins removed, covered, in other words they are not accounted to those in Christ.

Actually Paul does say we can stop sinning just not by our own power.
Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh can fulfill the righteousness of the law (stop sinning)

Moreover Paul said.
Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

It can be done if we walk in the Spirit of Christ and not fulfill the lust of our flesh

Amen! it's right there in the Word!

 

[Vic C.]

Because of your incredible bad attitude and manner, your lack scriptural knowledge too, I am placing you on ignore. You contribute nothing edifying and your posts bring no hope to a living soul.

C

Oh it worked LOL he is now a real mysteryman to me......gone off my screen. Its only the second time in all my years on forums, that I placed somebody on ignore.

I post with him in another forum. I know him well.

Well I'm glad you cleared that up because honestly, what was said wasn't very nice. :gah You know the rules; we frown upon publicly ridiculing another member (that applies to everyone).

The next time a member feels obligated to publicly announce they are putting another member on ignore, they may not like the consequences. Making such announcements comes across as prideful and very un-Christian-like. :gah

Oh, as for judging or not judging those withing the body, you may want to read 1 Corinthians 5. :yes

I tend to disagree sometimes with MM, but there were some things posted here by MM that were both edifying and hopeful. Remember, bearing false witness against another is a sin. Some thoughts are also a sin too. Please read the Sermon on the Mount and then realize it is impossible to live out a 100% righteous life while still in our corrupted bodies.

Striving for and achieving are not the same thing.

A couple more things; I just read the whole thread and was quite surprised this verse was not quoted:

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Notice it says "am" and not "was". If Paul still felt the need to use the "sinner" label, how much of a sinner are we who follow him?

Also C, you only partially quoted Gal 2:20. What happened to the rest? Does it not "fit" your beliefs?

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

This verse brings up a line of discussion not yet touched.

So... whose faith? Whose faith is it that brings forth justification and sanctification?

Oh yes, one more thing. LOL "It is finished." Yes it is, but what is "it"? See Col 2:13-15

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote Vic : "See Col 2:13-15"

Hi Vic

May I also add Colossians 3:1 thru verse 16

And may I point out specifically verse 10 which tells us to "put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him" < It is a process of the renewed mind, to put off the old and put on the new man.

And we all should take special note of verses 12 - 15

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[Mysteryman]

Wouldn't you know it, I have another verse to share. ;)

Colossians 3:25 - "But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done : and there is no repsect of persons" :yes

Bless - IN Christ - MM

 

[chestertonrules]

[ :

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Don't know if this was already posted, but it fits well:

Rom 7
15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

 

[watchman F]

[ :

1 Tim 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Don't know if this was already posted, but it fits well:

Rom 7
15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Yes chestertonrules, I think we all agree we in our own flesh cannot stop sinning. The thing is some refuse to see is that God has promised us that through His spirit we can.

 

[RichardBurger]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect.


Paul never says he can stop sinning.

But that's the whole point. He makes our spirit perfect. So we can stop sinning. What Paul says is that our flesh is dead. "So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature." (Galatians 5 v 16).
You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Thank you for telling me I am contradicting myself but I can't see that since nothing I said indicated a child of God becomes sinless in the flesh. But I see you are reaching for something to focus on.

Are you saying that you no longer sin?

Only someone who thinks they are perfect and no longer sin in the flesh would continue to say a child of God has to be or is made sinless in the flesh.

Today, under grace, the flesh counts for nothing. Jesus came to save the sick from spiritual death (the second death). He never said the flesh becomes perfect.

The focus of religion today is the social, moral, become perfect, gospel and is based on what man does. That is not true Christianity. True Christianity is totally based on what Jesus did on the cross, not on what man does.

Like Paul I can say I am a sinner saved by God's grace shown on the cross. That does not make my flesh sinless, it makes me, my spirit, sinless in the eyes of God. Most people cannot differenciate between spirit and flesh. They cannot see that they are two separate thing living in a body of flesh. According to the scriptures flesh will never enter heaven.