Sin Free?

[Cornelius]

WE are indeed suppose to walk in the Spirit. But our flesh is not dead yet !

It will not be dead until you reckon it to be dead. Your mouth is killing your faith brother. You are SAYING the opposite of what the Word says. You are double minded. Choose one and stick to it !

Choose one of these:

1) I am not dead in my flesh

or

2) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me:

We only get to choose and confess one of these. And then it will be to you according to your faith !

 

[Godfrey]

thanks for sharing Godfrey, do you know what happened and why she lost it?

Afraid not. I didn't like to press further; she hasn't posted anywhere I know of for 3-4 years - I think she is in some Christian community in Germany.

 

[Godfrey]

Oh dear Godfrey now I cannot stop laughing, I keep on reading those verses and .....

Glad you liked them, but I am so glad they're not in the Bible.

 

[Mysteryman]

WE are indeed suppose to walk in the Spirit. But our flesh is not dead yet !

It will not be dead until you reckon it to be dead. Your mouth is killing your faith brother. You are SAYING the opposite of what the Word says. You are double minded. Choose one and stick to it !

Choose one of these:

1) I am not dead in my flesh

or

2) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me:

We only get to choose and confess one of these. And then it will be to you according to your faith !

Hi C

So, you instead us a double minded comment to correct me ? Cute !

How is it that you can post "C" and be dead at the same time ? Please explain .

 

[Cornelius]

We are responcible for the light we have.(the knowledge we have)

When I becamse a Christian I still smoked. I really did not think it was a sin. So I took my smokes to church with me LOL and after the servive, to the horror of many, I lit up as soon as I left the door.

Was I sinning?

Not according to the Word. The knowledge was still outside my "light"/knowledge. But those Christian who judged me was sinning because they KNEW not to judge me, they were more mature and therefor had more light and were repsoncible before God for that knowledge they had.

I was smoking and perfect, because I walked in the little light I had perfectly LOL. They had a LOT of light and was not walking in all of it, so obviously they were no walking in perfection.

Of course I have moved in the same wrong manner, many time, the olde I became. I sinned, when I was not walking in the knowledge I had Jas 4:17 To him therefore that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. See? If KNOW what to do and you do it not, THEN it is sin. If you know not, then it is not counted against you.
God is mercifull.

 

[Godfrey]

My full point, which you seemed to not want to address, was that we are all sinners regardless of how much we follow Christ or how much we believe we are not.

I was working round to it. Watchman Nee remarks somewhere that we are not sinners because we sin, but we sin because we are sinners: we can’t help it, because we are all born with that fallen nature we inherit from Adam. What I am saying is that all Christians may commit sins, but that you are no longer innately a sinner. To borrow an illustration from a teaching DVD, once you were a frog. A princess kissed you and you turned into a handsome prince. You are sitting in a restaurant and a fly buzzes by. You put out your tongue, catch it and swallow it. That doesn’t make you a frog again, you are still a handsome prince – it’s just that you are a handsome prince who’s exhibiting frog-like behaviour. Your innate nature is still a prince.

If you are a Christian, you have been born again. So what is it that has been born in you, and what is its nature? Ezekiel could only speak of it in the future:

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. – Ezek.36.26-27

But the New Testament speaks of it not as something that is going to happen to you, or is in the process of happening to you, but as something that has already happened in and to you:

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! – 2 Cor.5.17

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. – 1 Peter 1.23

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. – Gal.2.20

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world … but because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – Eph.2.2,4-5

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. - John 15.4

Christ in you, the hope of glory. – Col.1.27

So you already have a new spirit, the essential you, and it is of the same nature as Christ Himself. So it is not sinful. You may sin, but the new you is not by nature a sinner.

We are sinners.

Well, that’s not what God says in His word: He says you’re a saint who sometimes sins.

A handsome prince, not a frog!

 

[Cornelius]

Hi C

So, you instead us a double minded comment to correct me ? Cute !

How is it that you can post "C" and be dead at the same time ? Please explain .

Because God says that we are dead indeed and crucified . Its not being DEAD and not moving as in "Oh he passed away, call 911" LOL its dead to your old nature. Your sin nature. Its a spiritual matter. The Bible calls it "flesh" not meaning your body, but your fleshly desires. That part of you that is against God and that part of you that wants to sin.

You have to believe that part is dead,..before it will be dead.

 

[watchman F]

Hi all

Where you have fallen short of knowledge and understanding Watchman, and others, is when you think that "we can be redeemed from the bondage of son. It is not that we can be, it is that we have been !

You need to put this in the past tense, not the present tense !

We "have" been redeemed, we have been justified, we have been set free from the bondage of sin, we have been sanctified, we have been set free from the bondage of death. < All past tense !

The crazy thing is you say we have been redeemed past tense, but you do not even believe we can be present tense. Just to prove it I will ask you this. Do you believe that you can in this life live a perfectly obedient life before God through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.


If your answer is no (which I know it is because of your previous post) You do not believe that we can be redeemed much less have been past tense.

 

[Cornelius]

But the New Testament speaks of it not as something that is going to happen to you, or is in the process of happening to you, but as something that has already happened in and to you:

Amen ! because Jesus did it all at the cross. He has done it !

Psa 22:30 A seed shall serve him; It shall be told of the Lord unto the next generation.
Psa 22:31 They shall come and shall declare his righteousness Unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done it.

 

[glorydaz]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect.


Paul never says he can stop sinning.

But that's the whole point. He makes our spirit perfect. So we can stop sinning. What Paul says is that our flesh is dead. "So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature." (Galatians 5 v 16).
You seem to be contradicting yourself.

Hi

This seems to be the same mistake everyone makes. We are to "consider" our flesh as being dead. If our flesh is dead, then we are dead, and we go to the grave.

WE are indeed suppose to walk in the Spirit. But our flesh is not dead yet !

Exactly....our flesh will go to the grave.

His thoughts are not our thoughts, and I see pride as one of the biggest dangers facing the body of Christ. We're to be meek and lowly of heart....not claiming righteousness that is not ours to claim.

Man is a triune being...the soul comprising the mind and emotions must be brought into subjection as well as the body.

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We see strife and divisions throughout the Church...

For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

Our minds need renewing continually...

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

 

[Mysteryman]

My full point, which you seemed to not want to address, was that we are all sinners regardless of how much we follow Christ or how much we believe we are not.

I was working round to it. Watchman Nee remarks somewhere that we are not sinners because we sin, but we sin because we are sinners: we can’t help it, because we are all born with that fallen nature we inherit from Adam. What I am saying is that all Christians may commit sins, but that you are no longer innately a sinner. To borrow an illustration from a teaching DVD, once you were a frog. A princess kissed you and you turned into a handsome prince. You are sitting in a restaurant and a fly buzzes by. You put out your tongue, catch it and swallow it. That doesn’t make you a frog again, you are still a handsome prince – it’s just that you are a handsome prince who’s exhibiting frog-like behaviour. Your innate nature is still a prince.

If you are a Christian, you have been born again. So what is it that has been born in you, and what is its nature? Ezekiel could only speak of it in the future:

I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. – Ezek.36.26-27

But the New Testament speaks of it not as something that is going to happen to you, or is in the process of happening to you, but as something that has already happened in and to you:

[quote:32qdwkeu]Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! – 2 Cor.5.17

For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. – 1 Peter 1.23

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. – Gal.2.20

As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world … but because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions – Eph.2.2,4-5

Remain in me, and I will remain in you. - John 15.4

Christ in you, the hope of glory. – Col.1.27

So you already have a new spirit, the essential you, and it is of the same nature as Christ Himself. So it is not sinful. You may sin, but the new you is not by nature a sinner.

We are sinners.

Well, that’s not what God says in His word: He says you’re a saint who sometimes sins.

A handsome prince, not a frog![/quote:32qdwkeu]


Hi

Well let me tell you something. If you sin, God will vision you for what you are, a frog ! God understands that we are only perfect in Christ. So God does not want to vision us as being anything but walking in righteousness. But if you eat that fly, he will vision you as a frog once again, until you ask for forgiveness. Then and only then are you the handsome prince once again.

 

[watchman F]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect. Is there a difference? Yes there is.

No one can claim that he/she is perfect in the flesh.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Even Paul would disagree with the idea that we can become perfect in the flesh.

There is a difference between being made perfect while we are still in our flesh, and being made perfect by our flesh. Can we by our own power through our own flesh become perfect? No that is impossible. Can we become perfected while still in this flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us? Absolutely, more over god has given us this promise, all we have to do in walk in it.

 

[watchman F]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect. Is there a difference? Yes there is.

No one can claim that he/she is perfect in the flesh.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Even Paul would disagree with the idea that we can become perfect in the flesh.

Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
NKJV

Romans 7:15-25
15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.
16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good.
17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

Paul never says he can stop sinning. He also thanks God that that those who are in Jesus have their sins removed, covered, in other words they are not accounted to those in Christ.

Actually Paul does say we can stop sinning just not by our own power.
Romans 8
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh can fulfill the righteousness of the law (stop sinning)

Moreover Paul said.
Galatians 5
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

It can be done if we walk in the Spirit of Christ and not fulfill the lust of our flesh

 

[glorydaz]

WE are indeed suppose to walk in the Spirit. But our flesh is not dead yet !

It will not be dead until you reckon it to be dead. Your mouth is killing your faith brother. You are SAYING the opposite of what the Word says. You are double minded. Choose one and stick to it !

Choose one of these:

1) I am not dead in my flesh

or

2) Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me:

We only get to choose and confess one of these. And then it will be to you according to your faith !

Maybe you're not understanding the difference between being dead to the flesh spiritually, and being a dead body in the grave. You can claim to be dead to sin, but we still see you sinning. You can confess whatever you like, but it doesn't mean it's been manifest in the world we live in at present.

We're seated with Christ in the heavenlies, too....but, guess what? Our body is still here.
Spiritually, we are dead to sin, but our body and mind are still here in this corruptible body of sin.

 

[Mysteryman]

Hi C

So, you instead us a double minded comment to correct me ? Cute !

How is it that you can post "C" and be dead at the same time ? Please explain .

Because God says that we are dead indeed and crucified . Its not being DEAD and not moving as in "Oh he passed away, call 911" LOL its dead to your old nature. Your sin nature. Its a spiritual matter. The Bible calls it "flesh" not meaning your body, but your fleshly desires. That part of you that is against God and that part of you that wants to sin.

You have to believe that part is dead,..before it will be dead.

Hi "C"

No kidding ! And we all thought you have been raised from the dead and that is why you are capable of posting .

Don't you get it ? We know that already. That is not where the discussion has been going !

When one walks in the Spirit they are considering their flesh as being dead. But when they do not, the opposite is true.

Now I suppose you are going to tell me that walking in the Spirit is 100 % attainable ? And if you think so, then you have not been following along with the rest of us. Because you are still stuck in the same old rut. Trying to accomplish that which is unatainable. The goal is great , go for the 100 % , but don't be naive in thinking you are going to attain it, because you won't ! The Word has already declared unto us, that we will not attain that which is impossible.

Every man falls short of the glory of God. Are you an exception to the Words of God ?

 

[watchman F]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect.


Paul never says he can stop sinning.

But that's the whole point. He makes our spirit perfect. So we can stop sinning. What Paul says is that our flesh is dead. "So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature." (Galatians 5 v 16).
You seem to be contradicting yourself.

hi Mark,
i was thinking the same thing, the thread keeps coming back to the topic of flesh, when the Word tells us we are to be dead to the flesh and alive in Christ.

Amen Darcy, and Mark

 

[glorydaz]

So you already have a new spirit, the essential you, and it is of the same nature as Christ Himself. So it is not sinful. You may sin, but the new you is not by nature a sinner.

We are sinners.

Well, that’s not what God says in His word: He says you’re a saint who sometimes sins.

A handsome prince, not a frog!

I like your analogy. :D We are not sin-free, but we are accounted righteous because of our faith.
This is what being justified by faith means. This is how Christ's righteousness is imputed unto us.
When God looks at us, He sees the blood and the death angel passes over us. Not by works of righteousness that we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us.

 

[Mysteryman]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect. Is there a difference? Yes there is.

No one can claim that he/she is perfect in the flesh.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Even Paul would disagree with the idea that we can become perfect in the flesh.

There is a difference between being made perfect while we are still in our flesh, and being made perfect by our flesh. Can we by our own power through our own flesh become perfect? No that is impossible. Can we become perfected while still in this flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us? Absolutely, more over god has given us this promise, all we have to do in walk in it.

Hi

So you are singing a different tune now ? What happened to the old you, that said we could "defeat" sin ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that we can not "defeat" sin ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that the "we can" phrase you used, is now outdated ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that everything is in the past tense and not the present tense ?

And if no to any of these questions, then why not ?

 

[Cornelius]

Hi C

So, you instead us a double minded comment to correct me ? Cute !

How is it that you can post "C" and be dead at the same time ? Please explain .

Because God says that we are dead indeed and crucified . Its not being DEAD and not moving as in "Oh he passed away, call 911" LOL its dead to your old nature. Your sin nature. Its a spiritual matter. The Bible calls it "flesh" not meaning your body, but your fleshly desires. That part of you that is against God and that part of you that wants to sin.

You have to believe that part is dead,..before it will be dead.

Hi "C"

No kidding ! And we all thought you have been raised from the dead and that is why you are capable of posting .

Don't you get it ? We know that already. That is not where the discussion has been going !

When one walks in the Spirit they are considering their flesh as being dead. But when they do not, the opposite is true.

Now I suppose you are going to tell me that walking in the Spirit is 100 % attainable ? And if you think so, then you have not been following along with the rest of us. Because you are still stuck in the same old rut. Trying to accomplish that which is unatainable. The goal is great , go for the 100 % , but don't be naive in thinking you are going to attain it, because you won't ! The Word has already declared unto us, that we will not attain that which is impossible.

Every man falls short of the glory of God. Are you an exception to the Words of God ?

Because of your incredible bad attitude and manner, your lack scriptural knowledge too, I am placing you on ignore. You contribute nothing edifying and your posts bring no hope to a living soul.

C

 

[watchman F]

I do not believe that God makes sinful flesh perfect; He makes our spirit perfect. Is there a difference? Yes there is.

No one can claim that he/she is perfect in the flesh.
Galatians 3:2-3
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?
NKJV

Even Paul would disagree with the idea that we can become perfect in the flesh.

There is a difference between being made perfect while we are still in our flesh, and being made perfect by our flesh. Can we by our own power through our own flesh become perfect? No that is impossible. Can we become perfected while still in this flesh by the power of the Holy Spirit working in us? Absolutely, more over god has given us this promise, all we have to do in walk in it.

Hi

So you are singing a different tune now ? What happened to the old you, that said we could "defeat" sin ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that we can not "defeat" sin ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that the "we can" phrase you used, is now outdated ?

Are you now ready to declare unto us all, that everything is in the past tense and not the present tense ?

And if no to any of these questions, then why not ?

We can walk in our victory, or we can do as you do and refuse to accept the fact that we are able to.