Sinless Perfection; The Unsustainable Command?

[Hopeful 2]

That is what I thought you believed.

Jesus Christ was fully God and fully human at all times.

Scripture, please.

See what I mean about the derail ?

 

[electedbyHim]

Scripture, please.

See what I mean about the derail ?

What was there to derail?

I asked you a question at least 3 times.

The question was specific of this thread, becuse many who hold to the herertical teaching of sinless perfection do not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.

I will note that if Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh, then He was just a man and capable of sinning like all humans.

There is no reason to debate this.

Your teachings in no way glorify God, they glorify man.

 

[GodsGrace]

The question is a derail.

Let the moderators decide when a derail occurs.
In the Theology Forum and the Apologetics Forum all questions put to members should be answered.

 

[GodsGrace]

It doesn't matter.
If I could prove it, would you follow the One I follow ?

It's just a statement of fact, and glorifies God and His Son who died to free me from sin.

Way better.
Their sins show they didn't ever repent of sin.
I have, to the glory of God.
Their sins show they were not reborn of God's seed.
I have been, to the glory of God.

That depends on what that new Christian is seeking.
If he wants the promise of eternal life while continuing to offend God and man, he ay indeed be discouraged.
If he really loves God, he will rejoice in the fact that others, before him have lived without offense.

His earliest teachings were right on the mark, but later he rescinded his doctrine of love.

Sure, as we are all going to grow in grace and knowledge, or wither on the vine.

Since you capitalized the One, I assume you're speaking of Jesus.
Jesus was God on earth and He could not sin since He did not have the sin nature.

Every human being born does.
And this is the reason we still sin....
even though the sin nature is put under submission to the Holy Spirit within us - IF we allow Him to do His work.

 

[Hopeful 2]

What was there to derail?

I asked you a question at least 3 times.

The question was specific of this thread, becuse many who hold to the herertical teaching of sinless perfection do not believe that Jesus Christ was God in the flesh.

I can't call obeying a command from Jesus Christ heretical.
It is written..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
You are calling being obedient to God a heresy.
That thought didn't come from God.

I will note that if Jesus Christ was not God in the flesh, then He was just a man and capable of sinning like all humans.

He was no different than us.
If He had been different, His example of how to live would be worthless.

There is no reason to debate this.

There is one reason.
The effort to accommodate sinning.

Your teachings in no way glorify God, they glorify man.

It certainly isn't glorifying anyone else.
The OP has nothing to do with Jesus being God.

It is written..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)

 

[Hopeful 2]

Let the moderators decide when a derail occurs.
In the Theology Forum and the Apologetics Forum all questions put to members should be answered.

OK, from now on I'll just call it "off topic".

 

[GodsGrace]

OK, from now on I'll just call it "off topic".

Same difference.

 

[GodsGrace]

I can't call obeying a command from Jesus Christ heretical.
It is written..."Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Matt 5:48)
You are calling being obedient to God a heresy.
That thought didn't come from God.

He was no different than us.
If He had been different, His example of how to live would be worthless.

There is one reason.
The effort to accommodate sinning.

It certainly isn't glorifying anyone else.
The OP has nothing to do with Jesus being God.

It is written..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)
"For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." (2 Cor 5:21)

It IS pertinent to the OP.

If one believes Jesus is God, he knows only Jesus can be tempted but not fall into sin.
40 days in the desert.

If one believes Jesus was human, he could think Jesus could be emulated.

We do not have a divine nature.
We are not God.
Only God has never sinned.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Since you capitalized the One, I assume you're speaking of Jesus.
... and He could not sin since He did not have the sin nature.

Were that true, He wouldn't be much of an example for us to follow.
This scripture would be crazy..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)

Every human being born does.

Every human being who has been reborn of God's seed doesn't have one.

And this is the reason we still sin....

The reason men still sin is because they won't repent of sin.

even though the sin nature is put under submission to the Holy Spirit within us - IF we allow Him to do His work.

Do you really think you have the power to limit the Holy Ghost ?
Your idea about submission, if true, would annul 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
That old nature has passed away in the reborn.

 

[Hopeful 2]

It IS pertinent to the OP.
If one believes Jesus is God, he knows only Jesus can be tempted but not fall into sin.
40 days in the desert.

Do you sin EVERY time you are tempted ?

If one believes Jesus was human, he could think Jesus could be emulated.

He can be emulated !
It is written..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
If we cannot walk as He walked, we cannot walk in the light of 1 John 1:7.

We do not have a divine nature.
We are not God.
Only God has never sinned.

Peter didn't agree.
He wrote..."Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)

 

[GodsGrace]

Were that true, He wouldn't be much of an example for us to follow.
This scripture would be crazy..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)

Every human being who has been reborn of God's seed doesn't have one.

The reason men still sin is because they won't repent of sin.

Do you really think you have the power to limit the Holy Ghost ?
Your idea about submission, if true, would annul 2 Cor 5:17..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
That old nature has passed away in the reborn.

We are a new creation H.
We no longer are what we were before.
Romans 6:16. We no longer present ourselves to satan but to God.

We PRESENT ourselves to God.
We are not God.

And, unless you're reformed, you should know that we have free will to obey the Holy Spirit or not obey.

He guides us.
He doesn't force us against our free will.

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you sin EVERY time you are tempted ?

He can be emulated !
It is written..."He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:6)
If we cannot walk as He walked, we cannot walk in the light of 1 John 1:7.

Peter didn't agree.
He wrote..."Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)

You could partake in a TV show.
You are not the TV show.

Peter knew we are not divine/God.

 

[Hopeful 2]

We are a new creation H.
We no longer are what we were before.
Romans 6:16. We no longer present ourselves to satan but to God.

Then why do you keep saying we have a sin nature...even after rebirth from God seed ?

We PRESENT ourselves to God.
We are not God.

Agreed.

And, unless you're reformed, you should know that we have free will to obey the Holy Spirit or not obey.

Why do you think so many on this thread use their free will not to obey ?

He guides us.
He doesn't force us against our free will.

Do you really think that nobody has the will to please Him ?

 

[GodsGrace]

Then why do you keep saying we have a sin nature...even after rebirth form God seed ?

Agreed.

Why do you think so many on this thread use their free will not to obey ?

Do you really think that nobody has the will to please Him ?

H, you know very well I'm not stating what you're inferring.

We obey.
We want to please God.
We are reborn spiritually.
We will to not sin.

But explain why JESUS, the One who never sinned, made a way of escape for us IF we didn't need one?
John 20:23

 

[Hopeful 2]

You could partake in a TV show.
You are not the TV show.

?

Peter knew we are not divine/God.

Having Peter's 2 Peter 1:4 divine nature, is far from being God.
I am glad he followed it up with 1 Peter 1:10..."Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:"
How comforting that is !

 

[Hopeful 2]

H, you know very well I'm not stating what you're inferring.

We obey.
We want to please God.
We are reborn spiritually.
We will to not sin.

But explain why JESUS, the One who never sinned, made a way of escape for us IF we didn't need one?
John 20:23

We did need the escape He provides !
Why not avail yourself of it !
He is the door, and "through" Him we can destroy the old man and be reborn of His Father's seed.
Then we will have all the attributes Jesus had.

 

[GodsGrace]

We did need the escape He provides !
Why not avail yourself of it !
He is the door, and "through" Him we can destroy the old man and be reborn of His Father's seed.
Then we will have all the attributes Jesus had.

Why did Jesus say our sins could be forgiven?
Why did the Apostles teach this?
Why did the Apostolic Fathers teach confession?

Were they all dumb but you have it figured out?

Why do we need Jesus' escape of confession if we never sin?

 

[GodsGrace]

We did need the escape He provides !
Why not avail yourself of it !
He is the door, and "through" Him we can destroy the old man and be reborn of His Father's seed.
Then we will have all the attributes Jesus had.

You make God to be a liar.
1 John 1 which we've been through with you for years now.

Tomorrow...