Bible Study So, Is Science Wrong On This?

Who Me said:
An irrelevant question. You want find any expert in Hebrew who will say that genesis wasn't written to impart any meaning other than a literal 6 days of creation.

While you may decide to give him a meaning of age you still have the problem of the ten commandments which say, in Six days God created the universe and rested on the more reasonable than othersseventh. If you means age we are to work for six ages,csix thousand or six million years before resting for the same yom.

What you believe is up to you, only some beliefs are more reasonable than others.

Please note, the references to God resting are all in the past tense, meaning after that token day he stopped resting.
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Who Me,

Have you checked out all the Hebrew scholars to confirm that they all agree with 6 literal days of creation?

Most of the young earth creationists I speak with use this kind of argument: 'The meaning of the Hebrew word for day (yom) is 24-hours unless the context indicates something else.It should be noted there is nothing in the context of Genesis 1 (ESV) that refers to other than a 24-hour period. So, we must conclude the says were 24-hour solar days'.

It is accurate to say that mostly the Hebrew yom means 24-hours. But that is not absolute for the meaning of 'day' in Gen 1 & Gen 2. This is because ...
  1. A majority vote doesn't determine the meaning of a word. The context in which it is used determines it.
  2. In the creation account of Genesis 1-2, day (yom) is used for more than a 24-hour period. When God spoke of the whole 6 days of creation in Genesis 2:4 (ESV), he said: 'These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens' So, here the 6 days of creation are referred to as 'the day'.
  3. If we go further afield than Genesis, to Psalm 90:4 (ESV), we read, 'For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night'. So here we have days as long periods of time, which is what we see with the familiar verse of 2 Peter 3:8 (ESV). See also 'Word study: Yom'.
  4. Gen 1:1-2 (ESV) states, 'In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters'. Nothing in these 2 verses indicates solar days. This information relates to creating the universe but there is no day-night statement here. Or is this simply an introduction to what follows from v. 3?
So, when God, in context uses 'day to refer to other than a 24-hour period (Gen 2:4 ESV), I am wary in making the 6 days refer to 24-hours each day. It seems to be logically true, but there are many exceptions.

Oz
 
Who Me said:
While you may decide to give him a meaning of age you still have the problem of the ten commandments which say, in Six days God created the universe and rested on the more reasonable than othersseventh. If you means age we are to work for six ages,csix thousand or six million years before resting for the same yom.

What you believe is up to you, only some beliefs are more reasonable than others.
Click to expand...

Who Me,

In my copy of Exposition of Genesis, outstanding Hebrew scholar, H. C. Leupold, agrees that these are 6 literal days of creation (1942:58).

Another conservative Hebrew scholar, Gleason Archer Jr., states that 'the message and purpose of Genesis 1 is revelation of the one true God who created all things out of nothing and ever keeps the universe under His sovereign control'. When Gen 1:27 (ESV) is compared with Gen 2:15-22 (ESV), 'it has become very apparent that Genesis 1 was never intended to teach that the sixth creative day, when Adam and Eve were both created, lasted a mere twenty-four hours' (1982:60).

Evangelical systematic theologian, Wayne Grudem, made this assessment:
The Traditional ‘Young Earth’ View Of Creation
The traditional position on the age of the universe is that its relatively young. Estimates vary, but it’s usually dated to be between 6,000-20,000 years old – far younger than the 13.8 billion years proposed by modern cosmology. The biblical rationale for the young age of the universe is as follows.

  • Genesis 1 indicates there were 6 days of creation. It seems these are literal or normal days in the plain reading of the text.
  • The genealogies in the Bible tie back Adam to Abraham, David, and Jesus (Genesis 4, 5, 11, Matthew 1, Luke 3, etc.). Counting years from the genealogies can provide an estimate of how many years it’s been from the creation of Adam until today.
  • Death was introduced by Adam’s sin, including into the animal kingdom (Genesis 3:17-19, Romans 8:20-23). Therefore the fossil record cannot include any death before the Fall around the time of creation. Any attempt to date the fossil record before a young creation is inaccurate.

Young earth creationists typically point back to a natural reading of Scripture, but they bolster their biblical argument with various scientific arguments. These arguments relate to geology, biology, and astronomy. Some young earth creationists point to a creation with an appearance of age, while others have pointed to how the flood affected the landscape of the earth.
Click to expand...
Conclusion: Difficulties with Both ‘Old Earth’ and ‘Young Earth’ Positions (source)
Click to expand...
Oz
 
OzSpen said:
Who Me,

Have you checked out all the Hebrew scholars to confirm that they all agree with 6 literal days of creation?

Most of the young earth creationists I speak with use this kind of argument: 'The meaning of the Hebrew word for day (yom) is 24-hours unless the context indicates something else.It should be noted there is nothing in the context of Genesis 1 (ESV) that refers to other than a 24-hour period. So, we must conclude the says were 24-hour solar days'.

It is accurate to say that mostly the Hebrew yom means 24-hours. But that is not absolute for the meaning of 'day' in Gen 1 & Gen 2. This is because ...
  1. A majority vote doesn't determine the meaning of a word. The context in which it is used determines it.
  2. In the creation account of Genesis 1-2, day (yom) is used for more than a 24-hour period. When God spoke of the whole 6 days of creation in Genesis 2:4 (ESV), he said: 'These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens' So, here the 6 days of creation are referred to as 'the day'.
  3. If we go further afield than Genesis, to Psalm 90:4 (ESV), we read, 'For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night'. So here we have days as long periods of time, which is what we see with the familiar verse of 2 Peter 3:8 (ESV). See also 'Word study: Yom'.
  4. Gen 1:1-2 (ESV) states, 'In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters'. Nothing in these 2 verses indicates solar days. This information relates to creating the universe but there is no day-night statement here. Or is this simply an introduction to what follows from v. 3?
So, when God, in context uses 'day to refer to other than a 24-hour period (Gen 2:4 ESV), I am wary in making the 6 days refer to 24-hours each day. It seems to be logically true, but there are many exceptions.

Oz
Click to expand...
I am just not getting into this conversation.
I just want to answer you and say that we should consider that the creation story is a way of telling us how the universe was made under inspiration by God to whoever wrote it.

God did not need to rest on the 7th day.
Even if it only means that He STOPPED creating.
Most probably God never stops creating....He is a creator.

If God made the earth is 6 of OUR days, as WE understand a day,,,,then we have many problems to deal with.

We could start with the fact that there are two different creation stories...
One in Genesis one and one in Genesis two.

How could anyone possibly account for that?
It's obvious that two different persons wrote it.

Why can't we accept that God inspired the bible but didn't write it?
 
wondering said:
I am just not getting into this conversation.
I just want to answer you and say that we should consider that the creation story is a way of telling us how the universe was made under inspiration by God to whoever wrote it.

God did not need to rest on the 7th day.
Even if it only means that He STOPPED creating.
Most probably God never stops creating....He is a creator.

If God made the earth is 6 of OUR days, as WE understand a day,,,,then we have many problems to deal with.

We could start with the fact that there are two different creation stories...
One in Genesis one and one in Genesis two.

How could anyone possibly account for that?
It's obvious that two different persons wrote it.

Why can't we accept that God inspired the bible but didn't write it?
Click to expand...

wondering,

Creationist ministries such as 'Answers in Genesis' in the USA (Creation Ministries International, Australia) take strong stands on 6 literal days of creation.

I'm not convinced because, as I stated above, Conclusion: Difficulties with Both ‘Old Earth’ and ‘Young Earth’ Positions (source). Whichever 'days' view one takes, there are difficulties. That link enunciates some of them.

At this point of my sojourn with Jesus, I'm content to know that Genesis 1 (NIV) is not to get us into controversy over whether they were 6 literal days or not. The main point is that the Lord God Almighty, all-powerful, created the whole universe out of nothing. The purpose of Gen 1-2 is to point to the nature of our God.

A couple of questions for you:

  • Do you consider God is still creating ex nihilo (out of nothing) today? If so, what is He still creating?
  • As you see it, what are the 2 different creation accounts, Gen 1 vs Gen 2?
  • You say: 'It's obvious that two different persons wrote it (Gen 1 vs Gen 2). What leads you to that conclusion?
  • You state: 'Why can't we accept that God inspired the bible but didn't write it?' My difficulty with that question is that since God inspired the Bible, he had to use somebody to write it. Jesus considered the Pentateuch was written by Moses.
I have no primary disagreement that Moses was the primary author of the Pentateuch, under the inspiration of the Spirit. However, Moses could not have written details of his own death. See: Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch.

Oz
 
OzSpen said:
wondering,

Creationist ministries such as 'Answers in Genesis' in the USA (Creation Ministries International, Australia) take strong stands on 6 literal days of creation.

I'm not convinced because, as I stated above, Conclusion: Difficulties with Both ‘Old Earth’ and ‘Young Earth’ Positions (source). Whichever 'days' view one takes, there are difficulties. That link enunciates some of them.

At this point of my sojourn with Jesus, I'm content to know that Genesis 1 (NIV) is not to get us into controversy over whether they were 6 literal days or not. The main point is that the Lord God Almighty, all-powerful, created the whole universe out of nothing. The purpose of Gen 1-2 is to point to the nature of our God.

A couple of questions for you:

  • Do you consider God is still creating ex nihilo (out of nothing) today? If so, what is He still creating?
  • As you see it, what are the 2 different creation accounts, Gen 1 vs Gen 2?
  • You say: 'It's obvious that two different persons wrote it (Gen 1 vs Gen 2). What leads you to that conclusion?
  • You state: 'Why can't we accept that God inspired the bible but didn't write it?' My difficulty with that question is that since God inspired the Bible, he had to use somebody to write it. Jesus considered the Pentateuch was written by Moses.
I have no primary disagreement that Moses was the primary author of the Pentateuch, under the inspiration of the Spirit. However, Moses could not have written details of his own death. See: Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch.

Oz
Click to expand...
Oz,
I came over to shut down but saw your post...it's really later here.
But I'll answer your questions quickly...

1. Yes, I think God is still creating. probably more universes as there are millions or, I think, they say billions. Who can know? But God is a creator.

2. The two different creations accounts:
In Genesis 1 God created and prepared the earth for man.
He made the vegetation first and then man.
Genesis 1 ends with Genesis 2:3

In Genesis 2:4....God created man first, there was no shrub of the field, Gen 2:5
Genesis 2:7 God creates man from the dust and breathed life into him.
THEN in Gen 2:9 trees grow.

It would seem that in Gen 1 man and woman were created together.
In Gen 2 God created man first in verse 7, and then woman in verse 18.


3. Gen 1 is about the creation of the earth....
Gen 2 does not continue but changes the theme completely....the same person writing both would tend to continue with the first idea and complete it.

4. Moses was connected to the Pentateuch and wrote most of it. We can't be sure who wrote a lot of it. Moses could not have written details of his own death,,,as you've stated. Scholars that try to explain that away get tongue twisted and there's no reason to. No matter who wrote the Pentateuch, God is still the inspiration to the writer.

No one could have thought up such "stories" on their own.
Just think of Psalm 22.
1,000 years before Jesus was even born.
 
OzSpen said:
Have you checked out all the Hebrew scholars to confirm that they all agree with 6 literal days of creation?
Click to expand...
Of course I haven't, I rely on those experts in Hebrew who communicate with other experts about the fine meanings in Hebrew.

OzSpen said:
The meaning of the Hebrew word for day (yom) is 24-hours unless the context indicates something else.It should be noted there is nothing in the context of Genesis 1 (ESV) that refers to other than a 24-hour period.
Click to expand...
Yes day in Hebrew and in English has multiple meanings.
How do you understand ' day ' in the forth commandment?
 
Who Me said:
Of course I haven't, I rely on those experts in Hebrew who communicate with other experts about the fine meanings in Hebrew.

Yes day in Hebrew and in English has multiple meanings.
How do you understand ' day ' in the forth commandment?
Click to expand...

Who Me,

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT.

I love the Gospel song, 'What a Day that will be!' What does 'day' mean in the title of that song?

Oz
 
Who Me said:
great and the context of genesis 1 is of seven days of 24 hours.
Click to expand...
Completely and utterly true.

Genesis is very exact about making sure we know it is six 24 hour days. Six times it says:
"So the evening and the morning were the first day."
"So the evening and the morning were the second day."
"So the evening and the morning were the third day."
"So the evening and the morning were the fourth day."
"So the evening and the morning were the fifth day."
"So the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

Question for those who say these represent extended periods of time (OxSpen), how many years pass during an evening and a morning?
 
Who Me said:
great and the context of genesis 1 is of seven days of 24 hours.
Click to expand...

Who Me,

False! We know this from Gen 2:4 (ESV): 'These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens'.

In this verse, yom (day) means the whole creation week - 'the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created'.

There is a danger of cherry picking verses and excluding other verses that promote a different view.

Oz
 
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OzSpen said:
Who Me,

False! We know this from Gen 2:4 (ESV): 'These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created,
in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens'.

In this verse, yom (day) means the whole creation week - 'the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created'.

There is a danger of cherry picking verses and excluding other verses that promote a different view.

Oz
Click to expand...

Yes and you are doing that. When days are counted, expression like evening and morning are used the plane meaning is of days of the week.
You also need to include how the ten commandments referr to the creation weekthey say in six days the Lord your God made heaven and Earth and rested on the seventh day.
 
Who Me said:
Yes and you are doing that. When days are counted, expression like evening and morning are used the plane meaning is of days of the week.
Click to expand...

You are not answering the fact that in the CONTEXT of Genesis 1, Gen 2:4 (ESV) states, 'These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens'.

So 'the day' in this context does not mean a 24-hour period.

I'll not pursue any further with you. :wave
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I love dinosaurs and I'm fascinated by the fact that these monstrous lizards once walked the earth. However, although I believe that science and religion can coexist, science says that humans and dinosaurs never existed together,.. but if you look in the book of Genesis it specifically states that God created in the world in seven days. I do believe that He made the animals on the fifth day and created humans on the sixth,.. so which is it?
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It depends on the scientist we talk to. I believe dinosaurs and humans did co exist. I believe when science makes sense it helps scripture. For example there is no basis for evolution.
 
HeIsRisen2018 said:
I love dinosaurs and I'm fascinated by the fact that these monstrous lizards once walked the earth. However, although I believe that science and religion can coexist, science says that humans and dinosaurs never existed together,.. but if you look in the book of Genesis it specifically states that God created in the world in seven days. I do believe that He made the animals on the fifth day and created humans on the sixth,.. so which is it?
Click to expand...
There are numerous fossils of human footprints in the middle of dinosaur footprints. If they did not exist at the same time, how were the two footprints made at the same time? How did Job know what creature God was talking about when He mentioned Leviathan, and Behemoth? Both science and Scripture show that the two existed together.
 
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