What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

JLB said:
Yes or No.
Click to expand...
Before addressing another one of your assumptive questions, let’s make sure your assumption is accurate:

JLB said:
For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
Click to expand...

Does Paul say that the Spirital Rock (Christ) indwelt them or did He follow them?

And to whom did He swear that they will not enter into His rest, except to the ones having disobeyed? And we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:18-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 3:18-19&version=DLNT

Were these ⬆ people described by the author of Hebrews as being either born again, regenerated, or justified?
 
chessman said:
Before addressing another one of your assumptive questions, let’s make sure your assumption is accurate:



Does Paul say that the Spirital Rock (Christ) indwelt them or did He follow them?

And to whom did He swear that they will not enter into His rest, except to the ones having disobeyed? And we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:18-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 3:18-19&version=DLNT

Were these ⬆ people described by the author of Hebrews as being either born again, regenerated, or justified?
Click to expand...





It’s a simple question, and a biblical one.


  • Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.




If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
JLB said:
It’s a simple question, and a biblical one.
Click to expand...
Actually, it’s an assumptive question built on an assumption that these followers of Moses were born-again. They weren’t born-again as is evidenced by the fact that the Spirit of Christ wasn’t dwelling inside them, Christ was following them.
 
JLB said:
So you’ll agree, when we believe we are saved?

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


And if we no longer believe, we are no longer saved.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


  • who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.





JLB
Click to expand...

I agree those who believe will be saved.

But Luke says the ones on the rock have no root.
Luke 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

If they have no root, they believe for a while and they fall away. No root, no fruit. Those who will be saved have root and bear fruit.

Matthew 13:23
As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 7:19
ie. is not saved

A good tree bears good fruit. A bad tree bears bad fruit. The good tree is saved. The bad tree is chopped down.

There's no saved for a while; Bad trees are not saved for a while.
 
Last edited:
chessman said:
Actually, it’s an assumptive question built on an assumption that these followers of Moses were born-again. They weren’t born-again as is evidenced by the fact that the Spirit of Christ wasn’t dwelling inside them, Christ was following them.
Click to expand...


If you want to discuss these topics with me then answer my questions and stop making excuses because you have no answer or you are ashamed of your answer.


You have pulled this stunt several times now, claiming some make up excuse because you can’t answer the question with out exposing just how unbiblical your doctrine really is.


it’s a very real, biblical question that is very simple to answer.

Here’s mine.

Yes.



Now you try.

If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
chessman said:
Actually, it’s an assumptive question built on an assumption that these followers of Moses were born-again. They weren’t born-again as is evidenced by the fact that the Spirit of Christ wasn’t dwelling inside them, Christ was following them.
Click to expand...


Here is the question about born again Christians today.


If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
JLB said:
it’s a very real, biblical question that is very simple to answer.
Click to expand...
It’s a very real assumption, to assume someone without the Spirit indwelling them are born-again.

And to whom did He swear that they will not enter into His rest, except to the ones having disobeyed? And we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.​
Hebrews 3:18-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 3:18-19&version=DLNT

Were these ⬆ people described by the author of Hebrews as being either born again, regenerated, or justified?
 
MarkT said:
I agree those who believe will be saved.

But Luke says the ones on the rock have no root.
Luke 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root, they believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

If they have no root, they believe for a while and they fall away. No root, no fruit. Those who will be saved have root and bear fruit.

Matthew 13:23
As for what was sown on good soil, this is he who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit, and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Matthew 7:19
ie. is not saved

A good tree bears good fruit. A bad tree bears bad fruit. The good tree is saved. The bad tree chopped down.

There's no saved for a while; Bad trees are not saved for a while.
Click to expand...


No bad trees are mentioned.


What is mentioned is believe, and believe for a while.


If people are saved “when” they believe, then “when” these who believed for a while, believed, they were saved.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


The condition for salvation is met in verse 13, which is to believe.


It could be several years later before a person may stop believing, never the less the person did in fact believe.


Otherwise no one could really know if they are saved or not.


When the person believes they are saved, and continue to be saved until they no longer believe.





JLB
 
chessman said:
Before addressing another one of your assumptive questions, let’s make sure your assumption is accurate:



Does Paul say that the Spirital Rock (Christ) indwelt them or did He follow them?

And to whom did He swear that they will not enter into His rest, except to the ones having disobeyed? And we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:18-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 3:18-19&version=DLNT

Were these ⬆ people described by the author of Hebrews as being either born again, regenerated, or justified?
Click to expand...


I have never posted anything assumptive.


Here is the question about born again Christians today.


If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
JLB said:
Here is the question about born again Christians today.


If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?
Click to expand...
Born again Christians do not live according to these practices. They live according to the indwelling Spirit of their re-birth.
Born again Christians have stripped-off the old person with his practices and have put on the new person being renewed to knowledge in-accordance-with the image of the One having created them.
​
Therefore, put-to-death your body-part things on earth— sexual-immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which is idolatry— because of which things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which things you also formerly walked when you were living in these things.​
Colossians 3:5-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Colossians 3:5-7&version=DLNT
 
chessman said:
Born again Christians do not live according to these practices. They live according to the indwelling Spirit of their re-birth.
Born again Christians have stripped-off the old person with his practices and have put on the new person being renewed to knowledge in-accordance-with the image of the One having created them.
​
Therefore, put-to-death your body-part things on earth— sexual-immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which is idolatry— because of which things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, in which things you also formerly walked when you were living in these things.​
Colossians 3:5-7 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Colossians 3:5-7&version=DLNT
Click to expand...


So what’s your answer?

Here is the question about born again Christians today.


If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
JLB said:
No bad trees are mentioned.


What is mentioned is believe, and believe for a while.


If people are saved “when” they believe, then “when” these who believed for a while, believed, they were saved.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


The condition for salvation is met in verse 13, which is to believe.


It could be several years later before a person may stop believing, never the less the person did in fact believe.


Otherwise no one could really know if they are saved or not.


When the person believes they are saved, and continue to be saved until they no longer believe.





JLB
Click to expand...

Matthew 13:4-6 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they had not much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, 6 but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+8:15&version=RSV
The idea is the soil is not good. It's rocky ground. The word falls on this soil, it can't take root. The good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit. Mt. 13:23

Matthew 3:10
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
 
chessman said:
That your question assumes born again Christians live according to the practice of these things versus the Biblical evidence otherwise (BAC live according to the Spirit indwelling us).
Click to expand...

Again, my question assumes nothing.

My question is biblical.




Here is the question about born again Christians today.


If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
MarkT said:
Matthew 13:4-6 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
4 And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they had not much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil, 6 but when the sun rose they were scorched; and since they had no root they withered away.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+8:15&version=RSV
The idea is the soil is not good. It's rocky ground. The word falls on this soil, it can't take root. The good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it; he indeed bears fruit. Mt. 13:23

Matthew 3:10
Even now the axe is laid to the root of the trees; every tree therefore that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Click to expand...


Brother, they believed.


It’s that simple.


Either they were saved “when” they believed or they weren’t.


You don’t get to make up a double standard.


It’s one or the other.


If we are saved “when” we believe, then those who believe for a while, were saved “when” they believed.


They were just saved for a while.




JLB
 
JLB said:
No bad trees are mentioned.


What is mentioned is believe, and believe for a while.


If people are saved “when” they believe, then “when” these who believed for a while, believed, they were saved.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


The condition for salvation is met in verse 13, which is to believe.


It could be several years later before a person may stop believing, never the less the person did in fact believe.


Otherwise no one could really know if they are saved or not.


When the person believes they are saved, and continue to be saved until they no longer believe.





JLB
Click to expand...

Luke says they believe for a while. Luke doesn't say they were saved for a while. Do you see the words saved for a while?

Matthew says he hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while. He doesn't say anything about being saved for a while.

Matthew 13:21
yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
 
JLB said:
Brother, they believed.


It’s that simple.


Either they were saved “when” they believed or they weren’t.


You don’t get to make up a double standard.


It’s one or the other.


If we are saved “when” we believe, then those who believe for a while, were saved “when” they believed.


They were just saved for a while.




JLB
Click to expand...

God does not save for a while. Where in the entire Bible is anyone saved for a while?

Believe for a while, Yes. Endure for a while, Yes. Saved for a while, No.

Saved for a while is an oxymoron.
 
Last edited:
MarkT said:
Luke says they believe for a while. Luke doesn't say they were saved for a while. Do you see the words saved for a while?
Click to expand...


I see the word believe.


I see you saying we are saved “when” we believe.

I see Jesus saying we are saved “when” we believe.


Now you are saying some people aren’t saved “when” they believe.


So which is it?


Are we “saved” when we believe?


Do you believe?

Are you saved?

Will you continue to be saved, if you no longer believe?



JLB
 
chessman said:
and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they were drinking from a spiritual rock following them. And the rock was Christ.​
1 Corinthians 10:4 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=1 Corinthians 10:4&version=DLNT

Was Christ indwelling these people or following them?
Click to expand...


This has zero to do with my question.


Here is my question -

Here is the question about born again Christians today.


If born again Christians practice idolatry, sexual immorality, lying, homosexuality, murder, adultery or the like, and die in their sins without repenting, will they be cast into the lake of fire?


Yes or No.



JLB
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top