Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[ezra]

If a person does not continue in the faith because they departed from the faith, then they no longer have faith in Christ for salvation.


I find no scriptures that say those who do not have faith in Christ any longer still have the Holy Spirit.




JLB

where does it say that in scripture

 

[GodsGrace]

This is not about sheep getting lost. The parable says the sheep was lost, and then he was found. It doesn't say anything about becoming lost after being found.

So after finding his sheep, does the shepherd lose him again? No.

Psalm 23:1-3
23 The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want;
2 he makes me lie down in green pastures.
He leads me beside still waters;[a]
3 he restores my soul.[b]
He leads me in paths of righteousness[c]
for his name’s sake.

I'm sorry MT...
Like, where did the lost sheep come from?

 

[ezra]

The Holy Spirit is the seal; God’s seal of authenticity on those who believe.


In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, Ephesians 1:13


The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe.


Those who believe for a while, then later, no longer believe are no longer believers.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



I fing no scriptures that say that God gives the Holy Spirit to those who don’t believe any longer.



JLB

i agree but how do they return ? the spirit draws

 

[GodsGrace]

this has been my dilemma on this issue the parable of the lost sheep does not specifically state lose of salvation
Parable of the Lost Sheep
12 “If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them wanders away, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he will rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that didn’t wander away! 14 In the same way, it is not my heavenly Father’s will that even one of these little ones should perish.

this is nlt not a fan of it just did google search pasted it . i also want to state by no means do i support a teaching saying no matter what i will never go to hell. IMO that is saying ok so i can live my old life style and not have to worry.. That is not scripture paul wrote to take the old man off put on the new man
Ephesians 4
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
this is a every day task we do this just like getting dressed we take off our dirty clothes clan up put on new clothes .

we are secure in him-- maybe this might back up the theory of not ever being saved ..
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
i just cant go with the parable saying lost salvation ..imo the sheep wanders from the flock .. in this day and age it is easy to wander off . i have had many pinpoint the exact time you become lost again . i have also read in times past that God no longer see our sins after salvation.. i disagree with that.. he tells us to repent .
o will be far to both sides Jesus did say unless we repent we shall perish .i bank very heavy on 1 john 1:9 .
the conviction of the spirit should be strong when going astray .

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
the question will never be answered down here ..i had rather leave this life knowing i was trying to live right .

Biblically speaking,,,,
What does it mean to be lost?

 

[JLB]

being lost is not the same as losing salvation

to anyone here - please explain

1. what happens to a person when they get born again? - does the Holy Spirit come to live in the person and seal them?

2. if a person who has the Holy Spirit living in them COULD leave the faith what happens? - does the Holy Spirit keep living in and sealing that person? - or does HE leave? - what happens if the Holy Spirit leaves

3. if such a person can then come back to faith what happens then? - does the Holy Spirit then come back and live in the person and seal them again?

4. how many times can a person leave and come back?

5. how many times can the Holy Spirit dwell and leave?

6. if the Holy Spirit living in a believer isn't powerful enough to bring this person to perfection then the Holy Spirit "seal" isn't a very good seal

7. the answers to these questions are why lost/fall away/depart is not talking about losing salvation

he who departs never belonged - 1 John 2:19

if a believer could be lost and then found again that means lost and found is not losing salvation - lost is losing your footing - losing your way - stumbling - falling down - ALL things that can be corrected by getting back on track - but NOT at all losing salvation

I have answered 3 of your questions.


Please answer some of mine.


1. Based on the following scripture can a brother hate his brother and still continue to have eternal life.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



2. Based on the following scripture if a person who is in Christ, then removed from Christ, will they be cast into the fire and burned?


If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6




3. Based on the following scripture, if a person does believe, then later no longer believes, are they still a believer?


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:14





JLB

 

[MarkT]

The parable also says the sheep was possessed by the man prior to being lost. How does one become lost after being possessed?

“See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always behold the face of my Father who is in heaven.[f] 12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray? 13 And if he finds it, truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the ninety-nine that never went astray. 14 So it is not the will of my[g] Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish. Mt. 18:10-14

The parable is about the man who has a hundred sheep. If he loses one, he leaves the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and he goes in search of the one who went astray, until he finds it. So it is not the will of the Father that one of his sheep should perish.

How does he go astray? Sin. Before he hears his master's voice, he is lost in sin.

 

[JLB]

where does it say that in scripture

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Timothy 4:1



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

yes - that phrase can mean that church attenders who did not commit to Jesus left the faith - just like people dating can break up even though they were never married - they were both dabbling without making commitment - and before they made a commitment they left/fell away/departed/broke up/etc

What does it mean,,,, to have faith?

 

[JLB]

i agree but how do they return ? the spirit draws

They don’t return in that context.


They renounced Christ while under persecution to save their natural life.




JLB

 

[ezra]

Biblically speaking,,,,
What does it mean to be lost?

we was lost before salvation. are lost with out christ the moment we stray ? i seriously doubt it did the prodigal return ? he had to hit rock bottom

 

[ezra]

They don’t return in that context.


They renounced Christ while under persecution to save their natural life.




JLB

ok hold up the above is not going astray . this falls under being apostate .. here in the states we have seen no such thing peter denied Christ did he lose his salvation ? he denied him 3 times

 

[JLB]

Biblically speaking,,,,
What does it mean to be lost?

Separated from God; unjust, a sinner in need of repentance. Unreconciled to God.


In need of salvation.




JLB

 

[ezra]

They don’t return in that context.

why does it not ?

 

[Truthfrees]

this has been my dilemma on this issue the parable of the lost sheep does not specifically state lose of salvation
Parable of the Lost Sheep
12 “If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them wanders away, what will he do? Won’t he leave the ninety-nine others on the hills and go out to search for the one that is lost? 13 And if he finds it, I tell you the truth, he will rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that didn’t wander away! 14 In the same way, it is not my heavenly Father’s will that even one of these little ones should perish.

this is nlt not a fan of it just did google search pasted it . i also want to state by no means do i support a teaching saying no matter what i will never go to hell. IMO that is saying ok so i can live my old life style and not have to worry.. That is not scripture paul wrote to take the old man off put on the new man
Ephesians 4
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
this is a every day task we do this just like getting dressed we take off our dirty clothes clan up put on new clothes .

we are secure in him-- maybe this might back up the theory of not ever being saved ..
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

i just cant go with the parable saying lost salvation ..imo the sheep wanders from the flock .. in this day and age it is easy to wander off . i have had many pinpoint the exact time you become lost again . i have also read in times past that God no longer see our sins after salvation.. i disagree with that.. he tells us to repent .
o will be far to both sides Jesus did say unless we repent we shall perish .i bank very heavy on 1 john 1:9 .
the conviction of the spirit should be strong when going astray .

All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
the question will never be answered down here ..i had rather leave this life knowing i was trying to live right .

amen - i agree with what you are saying

 

[GodsGrace]

we was lost before salvation. are lost with out christ the moment we stray ? i seriously doubt it did the prodigal return ? he had to hit rock bottom

I'm not sure what you mean by
The moment we stray.

But jesus said that the Prodigal Son was lost in the parable....
Can we believe jesus?

Must go.
Tomorrow.

 

[ezra]

Separated from God; unjust, a sinner in need of repentance. Unreconciled to God.


In need of salvation.




JLB

agreed ..butttttttttt to the one gone a stray .. i gave a rather lengthy post i have yet to see a reply might i add i gave scriptures to back it up..... i was fair to both sides

 

[GodsGrace]

amen - i agree with what you are saying

See no. 555

 

[ezra]

Prodigal Son was lost in the parable....
Can we believe jesus?

lost yes went to a far country blew his inheritance.. he came to his senses does that sound like lost salvation ?

 

[JLB]

ok hold up the above is not going astray . this falls under being apostate .. here in the states we have seen no such thing peter denied Christ did he lose his salvation ? he denied him 3 times

Did he renounce Christ and return to Judaism while under persecution?


Do you understand that Judaism is a religion that believes Christ is a false prophet?


But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Peter said he didn’t know Him.



Peter did have to return to Christ and be restored.



JLB

 

[ezra]

Do you understand that Judaism is a religion that believes Christ is a false prophet?

yes sir i surely do... the parable you refer to is a sheep goes a stray ..wonders away from the flock. the Sheppard leaves the 99 and goes and gets that one....