Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[MarkT]

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


This is about falling away, or departing from Christ, because a person is being persecuted for being a Christian.


This is not about people sitting in a bar, who mentally believe their is a God.




JLB

It's because he has no root JLB He falls away because he has no root.

 

[ezra]

no root -- no fruit -- never was saved, you can receive the word with joy.. thinking you was saved.. i have seen it

 

[ezra]

Pssst...you've advocated OSAS several times in this thread, whether you realize it or not.



In Christianity, one of the three theological virtues is that of hope. If you have judged yourself saved (supplanting Christ's rightful place as judge of all men), you are presuming and therefore do not need the virtue of hope.

"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope; for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" (Rom 8:24)

If you think you are saved, hope would be a foolish thing. Instead, you would just need the virtue of patience to wait for it.

i have a lively hope and a know so salvation..i am also secure in my salvation which does not put in the group osas btw i hope you woke up saved . if nottttttttttt

 

[JLB]

If such a thing was possible, I would not be saved. But I am in the Father's hand, so I'm not worried about that.

The scriptures say it’s not only possible but it does happen.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JLB

 

[JLB]

It's because he has no root JLB He falls away because he has no root.

He falls away, or departs from Christ because he is being persecuted as a believer in Christ.



But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


The cause of the falling away from Christ is being persecuted “because he is a believer”; A Christian.




JLB

 

[JLB]

truth as you see it?

Yes as I plainly see what Jesus is teaching us from the Bible.


Can you see the reason they are being persecuted is they are believers in Christ?

• For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21


Of the great tribulation Jesus says -


But he who endures to the end shall be saved.
Matthew 24:13



You do understand the people who are being persecuted during the tribulation is Christians?


Right?


Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. Matthew 24:9





JLB

i have a lively hope and a know so salvation..i am also secure in my salvation which does not put in the group osas btw i hope you woke up saved . if nottttttttttt

Will you continue to believe and continue to be saved when they start killing your friends and family and torturing you?


Has your faith been tested that way?



JLB

 

[Walpole]

i have a lively hope and a know so salvation..i am also secure in my salvation which does not put in the group osas btw i hope you woke up saved . if nottttttttttt

Pssst...if you know you are securely saved, you don't need hope. Rather, all you would need is patience to wait it out.

"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" (Romans 8:24, KJV)

BTW, you don't go to bed and wake up saved. Where is this belief / doctrine found?

 

[Truthfrees]

osas is you are saved no matter what you do - sin all you want you are still saved - no one here is promoting osas

scripture supports saved vs never was saved but appears to be saved = iow wheat vs tares = aka root vs no root - if there is no root it isn't a christian - so the person needs to get saved before it's too late

having roots means you are in Christ - having no root or a root that chokes out is not a christian - CHRIST is the ROOT - Colossians 2:7 - Romans 15:12- Romans 11:16-18 - Isaiah 53:2 - Revelation 5:5 - Revelation 22:16 - Proverbs 12:3 - Proverbs 12:12 - HE does not choke out - so whatever the person with no root or a root that chokes out has it is NOT CHRIST

tares obviously look and act like wheat enough for God to say don't pull the tares out right now in case you pull some wheat out with it - so man gets confused about who is saved or not and for that reason is not allowed to pull out what he thinks is tares - only God will know for sure who is really a christian and who is not - Matthew 13:24-42

 

[FreeGrace]

We’re not saved yet …
for salvation is a process “with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12).

Warnings about losing eternal life
••• Mark 9:43 “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall
never be quenched”
••• Luke 9:23-25 “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it (eternal life), but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost (eternally)?”
••• John 12:25 “He who loves his life will lose it (eternal life), and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.” Also Matt 16:25-26, Mark 8:35-37

Warnings about gaining eternal death
••• Romans 6:16-23 “… you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether (slaves) of sin leading to (eternal) death, or (slaves) of obedience leading to righteousness … For when you were slaves of sin … the end of those things is (eternal) death. … For the wages of sin is (eternal) death …”
••• Romans 8:13-14 “For if you live according to the flesh you will die (spiritually); but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live (eternal life). For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.”
••• Galatians 6:7-8 “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.”
••• 1 Timothy 6:9-10 “But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into may foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil … Let them (rich Christians) do good, that they may be rich in good works … that they may lay hold on eternal life.”
••• Hebrews 10:36-39 “ ‘Now the just shall live by faith; but IF anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him.’ But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.”
••• James 1:12-16 “Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of (eternal) life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him … But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth (eternal) death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.”
••• Revelation 2:11 “He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.”
Who is an overcomer? >> “To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.” (Revelation 3:21)
••• Revelation 21:7-8 “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Jesus is talking about anyone who is a habitual (unrepentant) sinner!

Warnings about being shut out of heaven
Mark 9:47 with Matthew 25:34-46 prove the kingdom of God is analogous to heaven.
••• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Gal. 5:19-21 and Eph. 5:3-6 are other “sin lists” about keeping people out of heaven.

Warnings about being shut out of the New Jerusalem
••• Revelation 22:14-15 “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates of the city. But outside are the dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.”

Warnings in 3 of the many conditional “IF” verses
••• 1 Corinthians 15:1-2 “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel … by which you are saved, IF you hold fast that word which I preached to you - unless you believed in vain.”
••• 2 Corinthians 13:5 “Examine yourself to see IF you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.”
••• Hebrews 3:14 “For we have become partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end.” Also see Heb.10:39 above.

Those who belong to Jesus were drawn to Him by Father God (John 6:44).
But, if they fail to remain in Jesus and produce fruit, they will be destroyed!
••• John 15:1-10 “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener. He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit, … Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. … Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. … Remain in My love. When you obey My commandments, you remain in My love, just as I obey My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.”

4 times in John 14, Jesus says,
“Those who love Me will obey My commandments.”

Instead, the single most clear verse guaranteeing eternal security is found in John 10:28.

I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Previous to this verse, Jesus said, also in plain words, that whoever believes HAS (that is a present tense verb, meaning currently possessing) eternal life, in John 5:24 and 6:47.

So, put all together, we know that WHEN someone believes in Christ for salvation, they are given eternal life at that moment.

And, as a result of being given this gift of eternal life, Jesus very cleary promises that they (recipients of eternal life) shall never perish.

Couldn't be any more clear.

 

[GodsGrace]

then doubtful they was ever saved it make take some things to happen.. i dont know you dont know.. only God knows there heart 1 Corinthians 5: …4 When you are gathered in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, {so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord} . 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough?… :amen

I do hope you realize that if you want to believe the person that becomes lost was never saved to begin with....
It mean YOU cannot be certain of your salvation either.
Why?
Because YOU may fall away at some point in your life, you can't know that now.
And IF you do, it means you were never saved to begin with.
So you CANNOT be certain if you are saved at this very moment.

I, OTOH, believe that if a person calls on the name of the Lord, he IS saved. I can know I am saved because I know I am trusting in Jesus for my salvation.

Mathew 18:21-35
The Unmerciful Servant

Please note that the Master forgave the servant what was owed to the Master:
Matthew 18:27

We can say that the servant was saved at this point because the Master forgave him. Certainly in this parable, the Master represents God because it teaches to forgive as God forgives.

The Master (God) becomes angry with the servant and REVOKES His kindness.
Matthew 18:34


This also brings to mind
Romans 11:21-22
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't believe I ever "sent" the following:

A person who only believes for a while is not saved.

To be saved, a man must believe in the Lord and he must continue to believe in the Lord.

Paul said, "if you hold it fast - unless you believed in vain' meaning unless your believing was for nothing. 1 Cor. 15:1-2

Is it possible that believing can be for nothing? Yes. It's for nothing if the man falls away, as the parable says he is destined to do. His believing was in vain. It didn't do him any good.

A person can't be saved for a while because he only believes for a while, and he can't lose his salvation because he was never saved in the first place.

God's salvation is an everlasting salvation. He doesn't save for a while.
Isaiah 45:17
But Israel is saved by the Lord with everlasting salvation; you shall not be put to shame or confounded to all eternity.

What are we holding fast to?
What are we falling away from?

Who are we to know who's saved and who isn't?
If we died while in the saved state,,,the temporary state,,,where would we end up?

 

[JLB]

scripture supports saved vs never was saved but appears to be saved = iow wheat vs tares = aka root vs no root - if there is no root it isn't a christian - so the person needs to get saved before it's too late

Absolutely.

Depart from me “I never knew you”, is clear.


Tares are sons of the wicked one.


He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Matthew 13:37-39

• the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom,
• but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

Nobody is disputing these plain irrefutable truths found in the scriptures.


What I’m referring to is “HIS” sheep becoming lost.


Believers who are persecuted, and while under persecution, they depart from Christ.


Sons of the kingdom, (not tares, sons of the wicked one,) who are cast into hell.


Branches that are “in Christ” then later, are removed from Christ and cast into the fire and are burned.



His sheep, sons of the Kingdom, people who are in Christ, believers who are persecuted, are not references to unbelievers.



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

no actually you dont got it .... you keep using all these scenarios .90 % of the ones i know. out of church partying etc.. never suffered persecution they got out of church then the flesh took over i live in the real world .. do you know any one personally that has been bullied threatened with death for being a christian...
James 1:13-15 King James Version (KJV)
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

once again your scenarios. a former pastor i know left his church due to a a real life Jezebel . his wife was going after other flesh ..they soon divorced he went back to his old way of life.. might i add he just passed away at age 53 .. from what i was told he had got things squared away with God... we do have a advocate or do we not ?

Do you live in the states Ezra?
You don't think Christians are persecuted?

Persecution comes in a lot of different forms....
not just death.

I see persecution all around....

 

[JLB]

One of most striking things about St. Matthew's last judgement account in the 25th chapter of his Gospel is the reaction of the sheep and the goats: Both are completely surprised by the verdict rendered by the Judge.

So true.


If you read the context which starts in Matthew 24:45, your will find the goats were at one time,
His servants who became unfaithful.


“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them...

And cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. Matthew 25:14,30-32




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Absolutely.
Depart from me “I never knew you”, is clear.
Tares are sons of the wicked one.
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Matthew 13:37-39

• the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom,
• but the tares are the sons of the wicked one.

Nobody is disputing these plain irrefutable truths found in the scriptures.

What I’m referring to is “HIS” sheep becoming lost.
Believers who are persecuted, and while under persecution, they depart from Christ.
Sons of the kingdom, (not tares, sons of the wicked one,) who are cast into hell.
Branches that are “in Christ” then later, are removed from Christ and cast into the fire and are burned.
His sheep, sons of the Kingdom, people who are in Christ, believers who are persecuted, are not references to unbelievers.

JLB

true - i agree for the 1st part - the sheep part is incorrect imo

there is no scripture about losing salvation - and there is no way to turn a scripture about being lost - lost and found - choked root - no root - into becoming a LOSE SALVATION scripture

 

[Truthfrees]

this thread has had 2 thread cleans today

please stop talking against members you disagree with

state your pov without insulting other members

do not directly or indirectly claim other members do not love the truth -

iow stop talking about other people or groups of people and stick to the discussion of scripture

any further violations will receive a thread ban

 

[FreeGrace]

I sent you a video of someone that DID lose their salvation...Bart Ehrman, a biblical scholar.

Did the video actually show this person's salvation, or gift of eternal life, leaving him? Could you share it with the thread, if it did? If it didn't actually salvation leaving the person, then the video didn't show what is being claimed.

 

[Truthfrees]

Did the video actually show this person's salvation, or gift of eternal life, leaving him? Could you share it with the thread, if it did? If it didn't actually salvation leaving the person, then the video didn't show what is being claimed.

he never claimed leaving God - he never claimed to have had a relationship with God

he is a bible scholar to disprove the bible - not to confirm the bible

here is wiki on him: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_D._Ehrman

here is his video

 

[Walpole]

Hey just wondering why several of my posts are being deleted while other posters edit are allowed to post ad hominems with impunity.

Any ideas?

 

[Truthfrees]

Hey just wondering why several of my posts are being deleted while other posters (edit) are allowed to post ad hominems with impunity.

Any ideas?

report any that were missed in the clean up - same to everyone else - if you see any posts where someone is being attacked please report them so they can ALL go in the cleanup

with 722 posts in this thread please know that we need your help to know which posts attack other people

but from this point onward anyone that attacks another member or a group will be banned from the thread