Some of the serious NT warnings to the churches

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Let that be your bible homework...

No, that's on you. You're the one claiming the rebellion of the angels is like to man's rebellion, thus implying angels are capable of redemption. Prove it. You can't raise an issue and, when challenged on its accuracy, try to lay it off on someone else to prove. So get busy.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

All of us as Christians (in the born again sense) have times when we feel that God is very close or not so close, maybe even that we cannot reach Him and He does not hear. But if one has been used by the Lord to bring others to Him or the Holy Spirit has manifested Himself through one by gifts or a powerful witness of His love to others and that is to stop the sense of loss can be overwhelming and very hard to explain.
If this is what you are talking about, do we have an example of someone in the Bible that this happened to that was restored?

I know about 'the day of evil' (Ephesians 6:13 NIV) that visits every Christian, where we have to just dig in and wait it out. But I mean as a result of sin.

 

[Mitspa]

But they are not the only one's that fall away from grace. Many people choose to simply go back to the world and not seek to walk in the ways of God anymore. That is the group I think of when considering this thread.

Well, most of the warnings of new testament are made against the legalist. Now I am not sure what you consider those who go back to the world, but this warning of falling from grace is for those who are turning back to law. To use it any other way is just no honest! Which seems to be a very common trait among those who are legalistic. I say a person is MUCH better off to leave the church all together than to be a hypocrite like many are. Now the Lord Himself said one is better off cold than to be lukewarm! So again to put together a bunch of scripture as ilove has done and then make it mean whatever nonsense one wants is not biblical and is not acceptable!
Your defense of this tactic, brings little honor to you and I would suggest you should condemn such misuse of scripture.

 

[Deborah13]

But they are not the only one's that fall away from grace. Many people choose to simply go back to the world and not seek to walk in the ways of God anymore. That is the group I think of when considering this thread.

I can think of three very different subgroups in this group.

Not saved by grace through faith to start with
In rebellion
Totally rejected the blood of Christ

 

[Mitspa]

This is an Oxymoron.

Of course some kind of made up nonsense has to be put together, because there is NO WARNINGS in scripture for those who stand in Gods grace and the righteousness of faith. Those of us who boast in Gods Love, cannot ever be seperated from His Love. Those who boast in their love for God, are just like Peter who "in pride" think in terms of mans ability and can never pass the test when satan comes.
"Lord I will never deny you" and then a little girl and a chicken caused him to deny Christ. We stand by grace, they cannot accept a faith that gives no place to their pride.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm curious what you mean by "Covenant priviledges". Do you mean to be blessed in all that we do?

For sure:

"25 ...whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do." (James 1:22 NIV)


Here's something to help us understand the matter a little better:

"15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth." (John 14:15-17 NIV)

"21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.” (John 14:21 NIV)

"7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples." (John 15:7-8 NIV)

"10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete." (John 15:10-11 NIV)

"I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you." (John 15:16 NIV)

See? The manifest goodness and benefit of fellowship with God through the Holy Spirit (not salvation itself in regard to being put into Christ) is conditioned on obedience...specifically the obedience to love others. Notice John 15:8 --our fruitfulness, our obedience, SHOWS us to be disciples of Christ, not MAKES us into disciples of Christ.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Of course some kind of made up nonsense has to be put together, because there is NO WARNINGS in scripture for those who stand in Gods grace and the righteousness of faith.

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." (Romans 11: NIV)

This is why the passage is so troubling to the belief that not even disowning Christ can remove that person from his grasp. The question is, "can a believer really do that?" This passage certainly suggests it's possible.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Here's Jesus' explanation of falling away from Christ, and falling away in Christ:

13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature." (Luke 8:13-14 NIV)

Put simplistically, one results in death. The other results in loss of blessing. I think most of us can relate to the latter.

 

[iLOVE]

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." (Romans 11: NIV)

This is why the passage is so troubling to the belief that not even disowning Christ can remove that person from his grasp. The question is, "can a believer really do that?" This passage certainly suggests it's possible.

They will stay the passage means something else because you post truth. They will also say it means something different in the "greek" or "God did not mean what He said".

 

[Deborah13]

They will stay the passage means something else because you post truth. They will also say it means something different in the "greek" or "God did not mean what He said".

WHY were the natural branches not spared??

 

[gr8grace]

They will stay the passage means something else because you post truth. They will also say it means something different in the "greek" or "God did not mean what He said".

ilove,

Why are you so worried about not being saved? You have NOT lost your salvation if you have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ. No matter what anyone tells you!

You have just lost fellowship. 1 John 1:9 and you are back in fellowship.

 

[Deborah13]

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." (Romans 11: NIV)

This is why the passage is so troubling to the belief that not even disowning Christ can remove that person from his grasp. The question is, "can a believer really do that?" This passage certainly suggests it's possible.

This is how I see this teaching.

Why were the natural branches not spared?

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

What is "continue in His kindness" if it is not but to continue by faith to believe in Him and His grace.
Why were the Jews who were under the Law removed because they did not believe in Him and come under His grace.

 

[Mitspa]

"...you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either." (Romans 11: NIV)

This is why the passage is so troubling to the belief that not even disowning Christ can remove that person from his grasp. The question is, "can a believer really do that?" This passage certainly suggests it's possible.

Well I see the same habit of taken scripture out of its context to give it a meaning and purpose apart from that which it was given. You make no metion of why the warning in Rom 11 is given nor do you relate it to its true purpose. Instead you attempt to lay it upon me? This is dishonest! This is a false witness! Now in the post before you made no attempt to put in context the commandments that was spoken of? Clearly and without doubt they are not the 10 commandments given to moses. So again it seems you sre attempting to present scipture in a deceptive way? Now, who do you think you are to warn righteous people? Your own post prove you are in no position spiritually or morally to warn others.

I have watched many of you who seem to think to warn others, none of you are in a spiritual position of truth, none of you are called by God to warn others. You should judge yourself and teach yourself! Get the log out of your own eye and then you can correct others.
I have not seen any of you who walk in righteousness, for no man would misuse scripture as some do, and walk in The Sprit of God.

 

[iLOVE]

WHY were the natural branches not spared??

Paul is tellling us if God did't spare Israel because of unbelief, He will not spare the Church if they do as Israel.

 

[Mitspa]

WHY were the natural branches not spared??

Thats not the real question? Because that is clear to anyone who reads it in context. The question is why do they not want others to understand the context of the warning? What kind of person takes a portion of Gods Holy word and uses it in a dishonest way? Who is it then that should be warned? Who is it that is turning away from Gods kindness? I tell you this same warning that they are trying to lay upon others is written for them!

 

[gr8grace]

Paul is tellling us if God did't spare Israel because of unbelief, He will not spare the Church if they do as Israel.

why do you think your cut off?

 

[Mitspa]

Paul is tellling us if God did't spare Israel because of unbelief, He will not spare the Church.

Just as in Gal 5 those who are turning back to legalism! THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.
those who are turning from Gods grace "kindness" are those who are being warned in this scripture.

So why try to misuse the scripture? false witness.

 

[gr8grace]

I am serious here, ilove.

Why do you think that you have lost your salvation? What have people been telling you?

 

[iLOVE]

Just as in Gal 5 those who are turning back to legalism! THE LAW IS NOT OF FAITH.
those who are turning from Gods grace "kindness" are those who are being warned in this scripture.

So why try to misuse the scripture? false witness.

Bingo! If you are a friend of the world you are turning from God's grace and kindness...you become a enemy of God. James 4:4
You can not serve two masters.

 

[Mitspa]

why do you think your cut off?

Not sure how much you have read on this thread? But ilove seems to think others are cut off. Or he seems to be warning others with whatever scriptures he can think to mix together into some doctrine of "unsaving others" be careful not to disagree with him or he will unsave you. It seems that many think God has called them to unsave that which He died to save.