Sons of God - part 1

[for_his_glory]

I am doing this in two parts as it is lengthy so take your time reading all of it, Thank you.

Sons of God Are Not Angels

Genesis 6:1-8; Job 1:6; Job 2:1

It is so imperative to read the Bible word for word as for what God has already spoke. God is the same yesterday, today and forever and nothing new has ever been added to His word other than what man tries to add to it by traditional doctrines that can teach a false word of God. One of the most debated topics is angels and giants in the Bible and who they are and where they came from. It is my hope and prayer that through the word of God we can shine some truth on this subject. I do not ask that any agree with me for what I have written, but to take the scriptures I have given and read them more carefully as you read word by word and allow the Holy Spirit open your Spiritual eyes and ears for all truth and understanding. All scripture is taken from the KJV of the Bible.

Sons of God is used many times in scripture to refer to men (not angels) such as Genesis 5:1, 2 and Luke 3:38 calling Adam the son of God. Adam was the first son followed by Seth and then his son Enos and the family began to call on God, Genesis 4:26. These are the first sons of God mentioned in Genesis 6. Sons of God have always been followers, believers and worshippers of God. Man was created in the image of God in His likeness for the purpose of having dominion over the earth and to multiply the earth as male and female created he them, Genesis 1:26-28. Nowhere does it say that angels were involved with multiplying or having any dominion over the earth as Matthew 22:30 and Mark 12:25 makes it clear that angels do not marry nor are given in marriage so in fact they also can not procreate.

Sons of God in Job 1:6 and Job 2:1 can not be angels in these verses especially when Satan who is an angel just as the other fallen angels that were cast out of Gods heaven and both Satan and his hoard of angels are in everlasting chains (not literal chains) under darkness unto the judgment of the great day, Jude 1:6 Under darkness means hid from the face of God as never able to approach Him as they were cast down to earth and have no more access to Gods heavenly realm. Read Hebrews 1:5-8; Psalms 104:4, God never called any of His angel’s sons. Jesus is Gods only begotten son and the angels were ministering spirits. We who believe and are followers of God are brothers and sisters with Christ and sons and daughters of God. Satan believes in God, but is not a follower or worshipper of Him. The phrase sons of God is used four times in the OT and seven times in the New Testament. Every time sons of God is used it describes followers, believers and worshipers of God. (Genesis 6:2, 4; Job 1:6; Job 38:7; Hosea 1:10; John 1:12; Romans 8:14, 8:19 Gal 4:6; I John 3:12)

Those sons of God in Job 1:6; 2:1 that presented themselves before the Lord are followers of God just as Moses followed and worshipped God and was called of God to present himself before Him on mount Sinai, Exodus 34:2. Read Job 1:6 again. It says Satan came also among them when they went to present themselves before the Lord. This means Satan was there like he is with all of Gods children to try and buffet them. If you go back to vs. 5 you read that it was Job who sent his sons (sons of God) to go and be in the presence of the Lord that God would sanctify them. Satan, being a spirit that Job's sons could not see came amongst them as a buffer trying to interfere with God sanctifying them. When God asked Satan where he came from he said from going to and fro in the earth and from walking up and down in it, remember what Jude 1:6 says and the facts are that neither Satan nor his angels have any access to Gods realm. There is no mention of Satan or any of his angels that fell with him were in Gods heavenly realm at that moment.

 

[for_his_glory]

If you break down Genesis 6:1-8 You can see that those sons of God were not angels as angels are spirit and can not procreate nor are given in marriage, Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25. 1Corinthians 15:39, 40 states that men are men, animals are animals, fish are fish and angels are angels. There is no scripture which would even remotely lead us to believe angels had sex with women. It was men who began to multiply on earth, Godly and ungodly men (not angels) and daughters were born unto them. The sons of God, Godly line of Seth, took them wives of the daughters of the ungodly line of Cain and choose wives from them. These daughters were more likely ungodly women being from the line of Cain and not of Seth. This is why God said my spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh. This is as Noah who had Gods spirit and walked in the will of God and not his own will of the flesh as he taught others for one hundred and twenty years to bring men back to God, but they mocked him instead and their flesh perished in the flood and will be resurrected into Gods judgment in the end of days. We see the flesh here taking over the Spirit of God causing wickedness to be found in them unto their own imaginations of the thoughts of their heart which was evil in the eyes of God. Soon there were no Godly men left except Noah as it repented God that he even created man, Genesis 6:6, 7, but Noah found grace in God and he and his family were spared as God destroyed all humans from the face of earth with a flood.

Vs. 4 speaks of giants being in the land, but never mentions that they took them wives of the daughters of men, buy says that when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth) came unto the daughters of men (Cain’s ungodly line) they bare children to them. These same children (from the line of Cain) became mighty men (giants) which were of old (before the flood) and men of renown in the sense that they were the ungodly princes, the conquerors, the heroes of those days and also after the flood being born from the line of Ham through his son Canaan, Genesis 9:20-27. They were called giants in the sense that they were very tall men in stature such as Og in Joshua 12:4 Goliath was a Philistine of great stature (giant) being a descendant of the Anakim, 2 Samuel 21:15-22 Numbers 13:3-33 the spies were sent out and came back with a report which included them seeing the sons of Anak which were Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai which come from giants as the spies looked like grasshoppers compared to the size of these men. Anakim are a race of giants descended from Anak. They dwelt in the south of the land of Canaan, near Hebron, Josh. 15:13. According to Genesis 14:5-6 the Rephaims who were giants in whom Og, the King of Bashan, was one of the last survivors of the Rephaim inhabited the region afterwards known as Edom and Moab in the days of Abraham.

Think about this, if angels were sons of God then this would make Jesus Christ an angel as he was called the son of God, but we see that Jesus was Gods only begotten son, John 3:16. We are all sons of God and daughters of God through that of the Spirit of adoption where by we cry Abba Father, Romans 8:15. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:7. Morning stars in scripture are usually angels except where it depicts that of the brightness of Christ as in Rev 22:16 Jesus is called the bright morning star as in reference to his brightness as in an actual morning star. If you notice in Job 38:7 morning stars (angels) are spoken separate from the sons of God (men). If they were not separate and both mean angels then why did God use both phrases. In Job chapter 38 God was asking Job certain questions as He demanded answers from Job. Everything that God was asking him was before Jobs time when the angels (morning stars) sang praises to the Lord in heaven just as men worship the Lord on earth with shouts of joy from the beginning when men called on God, Genesis 4:6.

Evil can not reside in Gods heavenly realm whether temporary or permanent so there is no way that any fallen angels including Satan, as he to is a fallen angel, can stand in the very presence of God in His heavenly realm. Only in the resurrection will evil be judged before God and cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:10-15. God does see the evil in the hearts of men here on earth and takes no pleasure in their wickedness, but yet holds His tongue until the day of judgment, Psalms 5:4; Habakkuk 1:13.

 

[chessman]

Think about this, if angels were sons of God then this would make Jesus Christ an angel as he was called the son of God,

That’s a good point.

Vs. 4 speaks of giants being in the land, but never mentions that they took them wives of the daughters of men, buy says that when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth) came unto the daughters of men (Cain’s ungodly line) they bare children to them.

Excellent point. Plus Gen 6 tells us that it was the "Sons of Gods" that took wives. So unless you think sex between an angel and a human produces Biblical marriage (and God would call it as such), that pretty much puts to bed (pun intended) the idea that it was angels marring the humans.

2 Then the sons of God saw the daughters of humankind, that they were beautiful. And they took for themselves wives from all that they chose. 3 And Yahweh said, “My Spirit shall not abide with humankind forever in that he is also flesh.​

Plus, God was mad at humankind (not angels) via the text itself.

However, I assume you’d like some feedback (both critical and/or supportive) toward your analysis of the term “Sons of God” and what it means in Gen 6 since you posted this in the A&T section for debate.

I agree with most every take you’ve laid out in the two parts except one:

When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:7. … If you notice in Job 38:7 morning stars (angels) are spoken separate from the sons of God (men). If they were not separate and both mean angels then why did God use both phrases.

The “when” this happened is clearly the time period prior to Adam’s creation when God was first creating the Earth. (i.e. well before the first man was created). Therefore, I don’t think Yahweh meant the phrase Sons of God there to mean men but He meant it as another reference to angels.

But so what! Does that mean the every other time the phrase is used that it ALWAYS means angels. too? No!
I don’t view the case of Job 38:7 the two terms “morning starts” and “sons of God” as being separate so much as a repeated reference from God to Job using different words to essentially say the same thing twice for emphasis. Referring to angels (the same subject) in two different ways, neither one of which comes right out and calls them angels, BTW. But the time-frame (pre-Adam) pretty much makes it rather obviously so to me.

But your idea (that they are separate) is not really supported by the flow of Job 38. It’s a literary method God is using (repeating something) all throughout Job 38. And we do it all the time, constantly

1. “the foundation of the earth” and “its bases” (are essentially both referencing Earth’s support (or lack thereof) using different ways of saying the same thing. But the point is, God here was clearly talking about the creation of the Earth, pre-Adam when Job (or any other man) was not even around yet.
2. at its bursting, when it went out of the womb,
[Essentially the same point, stated two different ways. But again, the timeframe is clearly meant to be understood by Job (and thus us) as during the Creation Week, pre-Adam as the oceans/continents were being formed.
3. at my making the clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band

[Here it’s done twice in the same verse: Garment and swaddling band are essentially two ways to say the same thing. Clouds and thick darkness are two ways to make the same point about pre-Adam creation state of the Earth (when the atmosphere was so thick that it wouldn't even let the stars/moon shine through).]
4. and I prescribed my rule for it, and I set bars and doors, ["my rule" repeats with "bars/doors"]
5. “Have you ever in your life commanded the morning? Have you made the dawn know its place,
6. “Have you entered into the sea’s sources? Or have you walked around in the recesses of the deep?
7. Have the gates of death been revealed to you? Or have you seen the gates of deep shadow?
8. Etc.
​

But again, I agree with most of your analysis. I also feel that just because “Sons of God” means angels (most probably does) in Job 38, that does NOT mean it always means angels elsewhere (rather obviously, logically speaking).

Especially when God tells us that "Sons of God" does not always mean angels [Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.]. And tells us why He can be so bold as to call us humans “Sons of God” in Gal 4:6. And He tells us that it was humankind that was doing the reproducing and marrying wives in Gen 6, not angels.

Notice how those that import “angels” into Gen 6 (that Sons of God means angels) must bring that into the context of a passage of Scripture (Gen 6) from a passage like Job 38 that’s not even on the same subject. Plus, they do it everywhere they possibly can by over-stretching the text to promote this idea of intermixing with angels (fallen or otherwise).

 

[for_his_glory]

I found Job 38:7 to be so out of place compared to the whole overview of God speaking about creating a pre-Adam world in this chapter. Here is a possibility IMO for using the sons of God in that verse as being the spirit/souls of uncreated men who shouted for joy, Genesis 2:7, as God knew us before we were even in the womb, Jeremiah 1:5.

 

[chessman]

I think there is a substantial and significant difference between God knowing His prophets like Jerimiah before they were born and His sons knowing things prior to them being born. It’s one of the attributes of God to know things, men cannot know.

Job 38:2 “Who is this darkening counsel by words without knowledge?​

This verse, for example, would seem to indicate Job had no knowledge of the ways in which God had created the Earth, yet God did have that knowledge. Verses 18-21, 21 in particular, seem to be God sarcastically pointing out to Job that He was NOT born yet, therefore Job knows nothing about lots of things that God knows about (things like the Earth, the stars, the artic snows, etc).

Have you considered closely the earth’s vast expanse?
Declare it, if you know all of it. [Obviously Job didn’t have a clue how large the Earth was.]
“Where then is the way where the light dwells?
And where then is its place, that you may take it to its territory,
and that you might discern the paths to its home? [Science still doesn’t fully understand whether light is a particle (with quantifiable mass and energy) or is it a wave (governed by continuous electromagnetic wave functions) or is it BOTH. Nobody really knows, still to this day. Job didn’t have a clue, either. Why? Even though Job was quite old, he was not born when the Earth was created and thus does NOT know these things (spiritually or bodily).]
21 You know, for you were born then,
and the number of your days is great.
[I think verse 21 is an example of God using sarcasm to prove His point to Job.]​

That’s the overall flow and context of Job 38, in my opinion. Luckily, He has shared that knowledge with us through the book of Job. Job 38 is an absolutely astounding proof (at least to me it is) that at least that book was written (inspired) by a higher power than Job or anybody else writing in ancient pre-scientific times. The scientific, geographical and astronomical facts recorded, using poetic language of course, had to come from God, in my opinion. They are just two amazingly consistent with reality, yet these were unknown scientific facts at the time Job was written.

Things like:
1) what forms the Earth's foundations (nothing does, v 6 On what were its bases sunk? Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over emptiness; he hangs the earth over nothing.)
2) how vast the Earth is (vaster than Job could even imagine, v 18 Have you considered closely the earth’s vast expanse?)
3) how the continents formed from the seas (permanently above sea level, though moving like doors, v 8, 11 “Or who shut the sea in with doors…
4) how the atmosphere matured (cleared from a thick one, v9)
5) arctic glaciers/snow packs and their melts (though Job had never seen them, v 22-23, 30)
6) properties of light (still unknown to science, v19)
7) how stars appearing as named constellation move (some together in the same direction, some moving apart, v 31-33)
8) how deep the oceans and it's springs are, v 16
9) How rain events from 1,00s of miles if not 1,000s away produce rivers that flow into inhospitable deserts such as in Africa and sprout grasses in seasons, v 25-27
10) etc.

And the kicker: how the Earth got its solid materials (its ‘cornerstones’ if you will) from the stars bursting forth (super-nova produced all the dust/rocks of the Earth from Hydrogen/Helium fusion, i.e. “the morning stars were singing together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”, v 6b-7)

I’m actually not 100% convinced that even Job 38:7 is speaking of angels to begin with. Any more than I am clouds are literally “garments” or continents are “doors” or ocean springs are “wombs” or that rain comes from “jars” or that rain drops have a “father” and hail has a “mother/womb”. I think the verse is teaching the Earth’s geological history, just as the rest of chapter 38.

It’s extremely possible, if not more likely than not, that verse 7:

when the morning stars were singing together
and all the sons of God shouted for joy?​

is just like the rest of Job 38 and is God using poetic language to describe real physical things in nature that created the Earth and it’s atmosphere and the universe in general to Job and that the “morning stars” and “sons of God” are both speaking about stars and their super-nova being the “cornerstone” producers (first building materials) of the planet Earth. But convincing someone else of that, that already has their mind made up about the certainty of it meaning “angels”, is next to impossible.

I was really just pointing out that the verse itself doesn’t quite fit with “morning stars” and “sons of God” being two totally separate things (whatever they refer to) which was my point of disagreement with your post.

My opinion is both terms actually refer to stars and their super-nova, not angels in the same way as clouds are referred to as “garments” and the early Earth's thick atmosphere is referred to as “swaddling clothes” and that ocean waves have “pride” and the Earth has “skirts” etc. It’s poetic, yet real at the same time.

Clearly, Job 38 is a pre-human Earth creation account, however, either way. Thus, I doubt "sons of God" in that verse means humans.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm like you in the sense that I'm not 100% sure they were angels also. Morning stars could just mean stars and sons of God could be a metaphor for something else like the rays of the sun as becoming bright in the morning as there was joy in the morning of it's creation. I really do not think we can truly know what the meaning is here as nothing else around this verse defines what it could be. I enjoyed your reply and thank you for your insight. God bless

 

[JLB]

If you break down Genesis 6:1-8 You can see that those sons of God were not angels as angels are spirit and can not procreate nor are given in marriage, Matthew 22:30; Mark 12:25. 1Corinthians 15:39, 40 states that men are men, animals are animals, fish are fish and angels are angels. There is no scripture which would even remotely lead us to believe angels had sex with women. It was men who began to multiply on earth, Godly and ungodly men (not angels) and daughters were born unto them. The sons of God, Godly line of Seth, took them wives of the daughters of the ungodly line of Cain and choose wives from them. These daughters were more likely ungodly women being from the line of Cain and not of Seth. This is why God said my spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh. This is as Noah who had Gods spirit and walked in the will of God and not his own will of the flesh as he taught others for one hundred and twenty years to bring men back to God, but they mocked him instead and their flesh perished in the flood and will be resurrected into Gods judgment in the end of days. We see the flesh here taking over the Spirit of God causing wickedness to be found in them unto their own imaginations of the thoughts of their heart which was evil in the eyes of God. Soon there were no Godly men left except Noah as it repented God that he even created man, Genesis 6:6, 7, but Noah found grace in God and he and his family were spared as God destroyed all humans from the face of earth with a flood.

Vs. 4 speaks of giants being in the land, but never mentions that they took them wives of the daughters of men, buy says that when the sons of God (Godly line of Seth) came unto the daughters of men (Cain’s ungodly line) they bare children to them. These same children (from the line of Cain) became mighty men (giants) which were of old (before the flood) and men of renown in the sense that they were the ungodly princes, the conquerors, the heroes of those days and also after the flood being born from the line of Ham through his son Canaan, Genesis 9:20-27. They were called giants in the sense that they were very tall men in stature such as Og in Joshua 12:4 Goliath was a Philistine of great stature (giant) being a descendant of the Anakim, 2 Samuel 21:15-22 Numbers 13:3-33 the spies were sent out and came back with a report which included them seeing the sons of Anak which were Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai which come from giants as the spies looked like grasshoppers compared to the size of these men. Anakim are a race of giants descended from Anak. They dwelt in the south of the land of Canaan, near Hebron, Josh. 15:13. According to Genesis 14:5-6 the Rephaims who were giants in whom Og, the King of Bashan, was one of the last survivors of the Rephaim inhabited the region afterwards known as Edom and Moab in the days of Abraham.

Think about this, if angels were sons of God then this would make Jesus Christ an angel as he was called the son of God, but we see that Jesus was Gods only begotten son, John 3:16. We are all sons of God and daughters of God through that of the Spirit of adoption where by we cry Abba Father, Romans 8:15. When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:7. Morning stars in scripture are usually angels except where it depicts that of the brightness of Christ as in Rev 22:16 Jesus is called the bright morning star as in reference to his brightness as in an actual morning star. If you notice in Job 38:7 morning stars (angels) are spoken separate from the sons of God (men). If they were not separate and both mean angels then why did God use both phrases. In Job chapter 38 God was asking Job certain questions as He demanded answers from Job. Everything that God was asking him was before Jobs time when the angels (morning stars) sang praises to the Lord in heaven just as men worship the Lord on earth with shouts of joy from the beginning when men called on God, Genesis 4:6.

Evil can not reside in Gods heavenly realm whether temporary or permanent so there is no way that any fallen angels including Satan, as he to is a fallen angel, can stand in the very presence of God in His heavenly realm. Only in the resurrection will evil be judged before God and cast into the lake of fire, Rev 20:10-15. God does see the evil in the hearts of men here on earth and takes no pleasure in their wickedness, but yet holds His tongue until the day of judgment, Psalms 5:4; Habakkuk 1:13.

A son of God is a being that is created directly by God.

Angels are referred to as sons of God.

At the resurrection we will be "like" the angels, being sons of God.

34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

Jesus is the exception as He is the Only Begotten of the Father.

A man and women can not produce a son of God.

In addition, the sons of God continued after the flood, as they themselves were not affected by the flood, being angels.


JLB

 

[Obadiah]

I have merged these two threads together. Please to not start a new thread for each comment you make on the same subject. Obadiah.

 

[for_his_glory]

A son of God is a being that is created directly by God.

Angels are referred to as sons of God.

At the resurrection we will be "like" the angels, being sons of God.

34 And Jesus answered and said to them, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:34-36

Jesus is the exception as He is the Only Begotten of the Father.

A man and women can not produce a son of God.

In addition, the sons of God continued after the flood, as they themselves were not affected by the flood, being angels.


JLB

This is how I understand those verses as I will put them in parenthesis

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children (we) of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luke 20:35 But they (we) which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world (that world being the New Jerusalem), and the resurrection from the dead (angels do not resurrect), neither marry, nor are given in marriage:(we will never marry in the New Jerusalem)
Luke 20:36 Neither can they (we) die any more: for they (we) are equal unto the angels; and (we) are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have merged these two threads together. Please to not start a new thread for each comment you make on the same subject. Obadiah.

Thank you for combining them. I did it in two parts so it would not be a long read, but this works better