Soul sleep false?

[DRS81]

You said this a few posts ago I'd be careful with how easily you change your mind.

"Absolutely. I have changed by belief on this, and that's important to me. I needed to confirm it in my own heart, the same way I know rapture happens after the sixth seal. I needed God to confirm this for me through scripture, and he finally has."

Hades is the grave and everyone who dies goes there after the first death which is why they're linked. The LoF is the destination of the wicked only after the GWT judgement where death and Hades are done away with. Death isn't an entity and can be picked up and tossed so this is symbolic of the end of the power of death over humanity. No more death and subsequently no more need for the grave.

1. But the definition of hell is punishment, torment and misery. If they are without consciousness then the definition of hell is wrong. Are hell and Hades two different places?
2. Do you believe there is eternal consciousness in the lake of fire?

 

[agua.]

1. But the definition of hell is punishment, torment and misery. If they are without consciousness then the definition of hell is wrong. Are hell and Hades two different places?
2. Do you believe there is eternal consciousness in the lake of fire?

1. Show me the scriptures about hell you're referring to.

2. No

 

[DRS81]

1. Show me the scriptures about hell you're referring to.

2. No

1. They are everywhere. Hell is described also as Sheol or the realm of the dead. Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
2. If they are without consciousness in the Lake of fire then why mention punishment in Matt 25:46. How can someone be punished if they are without consciousness.

 

[Gary]

1. But the definition of hell is punishment, torment and misery. If they are without consciousness then the definition of hell is wrong. Are hell and Hades two different places?
2. Do you believe there is eternal consciousness in the lake of fire?

1. I don't believe those who end up in hell get a period of rest between death and judgment. I believe they're conscious of what's happening to them.

2. No.
.

 

[agua.]

1. They are everywhere. Hell is described also as Sheol or the realm of the dead. Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
2. If they are without consciousness in the Lake of fire then why mention punishment in Matt 25:46. How can someone be punished if they are without consciousness.

1. Post individual scriptures you're talking about. One at a time please :D

2. Punishment precedes destruction. Some say the punishment will be before the LoF and some say while in the LoF but either way the wicked will be conscious for the duration of the punishment resulting from judgement.

Rev 20:12-13 KJV And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The final punishment will be not receiving Eternal Life.

Rev 20:15 KJV And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[DRS81]

2. Punishment precedes destruction. Some say the punishment will be before the LoF and some say while in the LoF but either way the wicked will be conscious for the duration of the punishment resulting from judgement.

But don't you see why it's important to get the timing of (punishment) right,
when we are speaking about soul sleep between death and resurrection?
This thread is about soul sleep. So you do believe soul sleep is false?

 

[DRS81]

1. I don't believe those who end up in hell get a period of rest between death and judgment. I believe they're conscious of what's happening to them.

So with this statement you also believe soul sleep is false? I thought you were (for) soul sleep. :erm

 

[agua.]

But don't you see why it's important to get the timing of (punishment) right,
when we are speaking about soul sleep between death and resurrection?
This thread is about soul sleep. So you do believe soul sleep is false?

The punishment must come after judgement which is at the GWT which occurs after Jesus returns. Soul sleep is the doctrine that implies the destruction/annihilation of the wicked after the GWT judgement. Some people believe in consciousness between death and the resurrection. I believe everyone is unconscious/sleeping between death and the resurrection and then the righteous will enter the Kingdom and live forever while the wicked will be punished according to their works and then be destroyed in the LoF.

All judgement and punishment comes after the GWT.

You didn't post any scriptures about hell that you want explaining.

 

[Gary]

1. I don't believe those who end up in hell get a period of rest between death and judgment. I believe they're conscious of what's happening to them.

So with this statement you also believe soul sleep is false? I thought you were (for) soul sleep. :erm

No. I believe soul sleep is reserved for those entering the kingdom.
.

 

[DRS81]

The punishment must come after judgement which is at the GWT which occurs after Jesus returns....while the wicked will be punished according to their works and then be destroyed in the LoF.

Let's focus on these word for a second. (Punishment/Judgement/Destruction/Destroyed)
If a nonbeliever is punished for a short while after the GWT and then destroyed later in the Lake of fire, then how is that punishment?
Is the punishment being in the lake of fire for a short time, or for example............is it sitting in a corner in shame with a dunce cap on.

Soul sleep is the doctrine that implies the destruction/annihilation of the wicked after the GWT judgement.

Very interesting. I've been told different........(Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul "sleeps" until the time of the future resurrection. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious. The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine. But the Jehovah's Witnesses teach annihilation. This means that after death a person ceases to exist. At the future resurrection they maintain that the soul is made again. Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual. The Seventh-day Adventists teach that the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.) http://carm.org/soul-sleep

No. I believe soul sleep is reserved for those entering the kingdom.

Hi Gary. So you believe that the (dead believers in Christ) are resting, but the (dead nonbelievers) are suffering in Hades. Interesting, please provide scripture.

 

[agua.]

Let's focus on these word for a second. (Punishment/Judgement/Destruction/Destroyed)
If a nonbeliever is punished for a short while after the GWT and then destroyed later in the Lake of fire, then how is that punishment?
Is the punishment being in the lake of fire for a short time, or for example............is it sitting in a corner in shame with a dunce cap on.

:D read what you just wrote. Quite trollish behaviour eh :D

Very interesting. I've been told different........(Soul sleep is the teaching that when a person dies, his soul "sleeps" until the time of the future resurrection. In this condition, the person is not aware or conscious. The Jehovah's Witnesses and the Seventh-day Adventists hold to this doctrine. But the Jehovah's Witnesses teach annihilation. This means that after death a person ceases to exist. At the future resurrection they maintain that the soul is made again. Basically, it is a re-creation of the individual. The Seventh-day Adventists teach that the soul is simply inert and resides in the memory of God.) http://carm.org/soul-sleep

There's slightly different understanding of soul sleep.

SDA also believe in annihilation.

 

[DRS81]

Ok, so the conclusion I have come up with is that believers rest in their graves and nonbelievers suffer in hell, between death and the first resurrection. Very good.

 

[agua.]

Ok, so the conclusion I have come up with is that believers rest in their graves and nonbelievers suffer in hell, between death and the first resurrection. Very good.

Yep run with that. Unless of course your intention is to stir up trouble between the Brethren :D

 

[DRS81]

Guys, I think that the Lord keeps certain Bible topics a mystery for a reason.

Some things we're just not meant to figure out, like for example..God's foreknowledge vs free will.

And that's ok. I accept that God is a mystery, and the sooner we accept that about the (soul sleep topic) the sooner we can relax and just let it go.

 

[jeff77]

Whether soul sleep is true or not the result is the same right?

 

[DRS81]

Whether soul sleep is true or not the result is the same right?

It is.

 

[Butch5]

agua. Gary Butch5 TOG I do have one more question though before I finally turn change my belief.

If there are no souls in hell right now, then what is this place called Hades.
Wouldn't Hades be the first death, and isn't Hades and the Lake of fire two different places for souls.
Also, why do they say (death and Hades)..Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Hi DRS81,

Sorry, I was traveling yesterday. It's easier if we avoid the word Hell because in the KJV three different places are all translated hell and this causes much confusion. I prefer to use the actual names of the place. One place translated Hell is Hades and is simply the grave. Everyone who dies goes to Hades, the grave, whether they are a believer or unbeliever they go to Hades. The second place is Gehenna, which John calls the Lake of Fire in Revelation. Gehenna an actual place. It is outside of Jerusalem, it is the Valley of the Son Hinnom, or Ben Hinnom. This is the place of torment. The third place is Tartarus which is reserved for .angels.

Everyone who dies will be in Hades, the grave. When Jesus returns He will raise the believers from the dead, this is the first resurrection. During the kingdom there will be those who are not resurrected believers these will be judged at the end of the 1000 years along with those who had previously died that were not believers. This is what Scripture is referring to when Rev says death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them. At that time anyone who was not raised at the first resurrection (the believers) will be judged and those not found written in the book of lifew will be cast into the first bodily, which Scripture calls the second death.

 

[Butch5]

1. But the definition of hell is punishment, torment and misery. If they are without consciousness then the definition of hell is wrong. Are hell and Hades two different places?
2. Do you believe there is eternal consciousness in the lake of fire?

Hi DSR81,

The Lake of Fire is Gehenna. Jeremiah prophesied that Gehenna will one day be restored and made holy to the Lord so it can't be a place of eternal torment.

38 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.
39 "The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath.
40 "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever." (Jer 31:38-40 NKJ)

 

[Butch5]

1. They are everywhere. Hell is described also as Sheol or the realm of the dead. Psalm 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
2. If they are without consciousness in the Lake of fire then why mention punishment in Matt 25:46. How can someone be punished if they are without consciousness.

Hi DRS81,

I suppose people. will be conscious as they're thrown into the Lake of Fire. It seems to me that it would be just like a person who burns up now, they are conscious until they die. However, the fire from God is somewhat different.

 

[Butch5]

Ok, so the conclusion I have come up with is that believers rest in their graves and nonbelievers suffer in hell, between death and the first resurrection. Very good.

I see an issue here, this has people being judged before Jesus returns to judge.