Hey guys. Churchwork brought up a really interesting scripture and thought. If we cannot be face to face (with God) without putting on our immortal bodies first, then how can our spirits withstand his light without our immortal bodies. Scripture says we receive our immortal bodies at rapture/first resurrection. Makes sense right???? (1 Timothy 6:16. "who alone has immortality,
dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen." If people are in heaven now in the spirit they possibly could see God, but this verse says they can't.)
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http://biblocality.com/forums/content.php?128-Soul-Sleep-is-True-Timeless-Unawares-the-Place-of-Rest
Soul Sleep is True: Timeless Unawares the Place of Rest by Churchwork
If you believe that when you die you immediately go to hell, you believe what the Roman Church teaches. In Roman Catholicism, the soul is judged to go to heaven or hell immediately after death, a belief also held by most Protestants. In Catholicism some temporarily stay in purgatory to be purified for heaven but they are raised up in their spirit when they die. In Eastern Orthodoxy, the soul waits in the abode of the dead until the resurrection of the dead, the saved resting in light and the damned suffering in darkness. This Eastern Orthodox picture of particular judgment is similar to the 1st-century Jewish and early Christian concept that the dead either "rest in peace" in the Bosom of Abraham or suffer in Hades.
Genesis 2:7. "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
A living soul is spirit, soul and body which cannot be separated.
Genesis 3:19. "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou returnest unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken; for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
Where do you go when you die? To the grave.
2 Samuel 7:12 "And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom."
Soul sleep.
1 Kings 2:10. "So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David."
Soul sleep.
1 Kings 11:43. "And Solomon slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David his father."
Soul sleep.
Job 14:10-12. "But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep."
Psalms 6:5. "For in death there is no remembrance of thee:in the grave who shall give thee thanks?"
Doesn't sound like the person's spirit is in heaven yet.
Psalms 146:3-4. "Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish."
No thinking till the day of resurrection.
Ecclesiastes 9:4-6,10. "For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing [....] Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished [...] Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."
When you die there is no activity at all.
Isaiah 26:19. "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Resurrection takes place together. "Yet we have this assurance: Those who belong to God will live; their bodies will rise again! Those who sleep in the earth will rise up and sing for joy! For God's light of life will fall like dew on his people in the place of the dead!" (NLT).
Daniel 12:2 "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."
Together were are raised.
Daniel 12:13 "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days." When does this occur? At the end of days. "As for you, go your way until the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days, you will rise again to receive the inheritance set aside for you." (NLT)
Matthew 9:24-27. "He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose."
She wasn't up in heaven, but asleep, waiting to be resurrected.
Matthew 27:51-55. "And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose."
How could they be in heaven before their bodies arose?
Luke 8:52, 53. "Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. 'Stop wailing,' Jesus said. 'She is not dead but asleep.' They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead."
Jesus testifies they are not in heaven, but asleep.
John 3:13 "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."
John 5:28-30. "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."
Those in the grave don't hear his voice yet because they have not been resurrected yet.
John 6:39. "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."
Still no indication that man is in heaven yet.
John 6:40. "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 12:48. "He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."
How can you be in heaven without being judged at the Judgment Seat?
John 11:11-14. "These things said he [Jesus]: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead."
That would be very strange language if he is in heaven yet Jesus goes to wake him out of his sleep.
John 14:3 "And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also."
That would be weird if Jesus comes again to receive them if they are already in heaven before He returns.
John 20:17. "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."
Why didn't Jesus say "...and where the dead in spirit have been raised"?
Acts 2:29. "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day."
Still David has not been raised.
Acts 2:34. "For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand".
Not even David, a man after God's own heart, has his soul and spirit raised to heaven yet.
Acts 7:59-62. "And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep."
Receiving his spirit is not taking it up to heaven, but Stephen relinquishing control for God to put his soul and spirit in the good side of Hades and await the day of resurrection, for he has fallen asleep now.
Acts 13:36. "For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption."
Still no verses for raised up spirits at death. That belongs in the movies.
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." Absent from the Lord, again, doesn't specify being with the Lord at the moment of death if we are resurrected together at the last day. We are with the Lord when? When Judgment Seat starts.