SOUL SLEEP - TRUE/FALSE

[Gregg]

Moses and Elijah appeared beside Christ at the Transfiguration. Were their souls present?. Likely so, as also their physical bodies were present. Moses and Elijah were talking audibly and their bodies were visible to the disciples (Mat 17:3, Mark 9:4).

 

[DRS81]

When a man is born again, his body of flesh is severed from him

What do you mean by this.

Although Stephen said, "receive my spirit", that statement does not include his soul.

Well, I dunno. I mean God's breath created your soul so...hmm.....

 

[DRS81]

Moses and Elijah appeared beside Christ at the Transfiguration. Were their souls present?. Likely so, as also their physical bodies were present. Moses and Elijah were talking audibly and their bodies were visible to the disciples (Mat 17:3, Mark 9:4).

But I don't understand something.
Did Moses and Elijah receive temporary bodies.
Because scripture says our bodies are resurrected at the first resurrection.
(head scratcher).

 

[Gregg]

What do you mean by this.

When a man is born again, his body of flesh is severed from his heart - Rom 2:28-29, Col 2:11, Rom 6:6, Eph 4:22.

I have yet to encounter a Scripture that addresses any separation between our spirit and soul, for either Old or New Testament saints, or regarding the lost.

But I don't understand something.
Did Moses and Elijah receive temporary bodies.
Because scripture says our bodies are resurrected at the first resurrection.
(head scratcher).

I am not sure about temporary bodies, but the issue is perplexing. I am inclined to think that Moses and Elijah had glorified bodies at the Transfiguration of Christ.

Whatever state we may be in now and then, I am confident that my entire being belongs to Christ - spirit, soul, and body; and that my existence is upheld by Him. And one marvelously wonderful and amazing day I will behold the LORD face to face and I shall become fully acquainted with Him, even as He now knows me.

 

[DRS81]

When a man is born again, his body of flesh is severed from his heart - Rom 2:28-29, Col 2:11, Rom 6:6, Eph 4:22.

Can you sum up what this means in your own words. My body of flesh is severed from my heart? Wha?

 

[By Grace]

What about the wicked?
<SNIP>
Conclusion
It is important that any honest student of the Bible take into consideration the entire scope of Scriptures, and not just base a doctrine on one or two Scriptures. Overall, the Bible teaches that there is consciousness in the afterlife and that every soul goes to either Heaven or Hell.
<SNIP>

That is a very interesting statement as the first sentence of your conclusion especially in the light of your insistence that the NLT is correct when it says "without bodies" in 2 Corinthians 5:3:
2 Cor 5:3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. (NLT)

Yet in these versions below, the word used is "naked"

ESV | ‎2 Co 5:3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked.
‎1901 ASV | ‎2 Co 5:3 if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. .
‎‎NASB95 | ‎2 Co 5:3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. .
‎‎NIV | ‎2 Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. .
‎‎NIV84 | ‎2 Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.

Those 5, plus the KJV, which also uses the word "naked" are a far more accurate translation than the NLT, which is really an unwarranted insertion, and has nothing to do with the original Greek word, γυμνασία. You see, you go to a gymnasium to work out your body, which according to the Greek custom of the day you work out and your body is naked. It does not disappear

The word in Greek is a derivative of γυμνασία from which the English word "gymnasium" comes.

So I ask you to tell us all how would consider a person to be "an honest student of the Bible"? Can you answer the following questions in a "yes/no" format first? Then you may expand your thoughts.

1) Do you believe that context is important, meaning the verses that go before a quoted verse and afterward?
2) Do you believe that the original words of Greek and Hebrew plus their grammars are important?
3) Do you believe that the writings of well-known Evangelical scholars such as Wayne Grudem are useful in our study?
4) Do you believe that the development of every Bible doctrine should be done in a systematic manner?
This is sorta off track, but it is also relevant:
5) If I were to cobble together different Scriptures in such a way to (hypothetically) justify suicide, would you then believe that suicide is permissible for a Christian?

I am interested in your reply.

 

[DRS81]

That is a very interesting statement as the first sentence of your conclusion especially in the light of your insistence that the NLT is correct when it says "without bodies" in 2 Corinthians 5:3:
2 Cor 5:3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. (NLT)

Yet in these versions below, the word used is "naked"

ESV | ‎2 Co 5:3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked.
‎1901 ASV | ‎2 Co 5:3 if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. .
‎‎NASB95 | ‎2 Co 5:3 inasmuch as we, having put it on, will not be found naked. .
‎‎NIV | ‎2 Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. .
‎‎NIV84 | ‎2 Co 5:3 because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.

It looks like commentary can't even decide. This is sad. What should we make of this. 2 Cor 5:3.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary - Believes in a temporary heaven
Pulpit Commentary - Believes scripture is referring to the first resurrection
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Believes scripture is referring to the first resurrection

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary - http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-3.htm
5:1-8 The believer not only is well assured by faith that there is another and a happy life after this is ended, but he has good hope, through grace, of heaven as a dwelling-place, a resting-place, a hiding-place. In our Father's house there are many mansions, whose Builder and Maker is God. The happiness of the future state is what God has prepared for those that love him: everlasting habitations, not like the earthly tabernacles, the poor cottages of clay, in which our souls now dwell; that are mouldering and decaying, whose foundations are in the dust. The body of flesh is a heavy burden, the calamities of life are a heavy load. But believers groan, being burdened with a body of sin, and because of the many corruptions remaining and raging within them. Death will strip us of the clothing of flesh, and all the comforts of life, as well as end all our troubles here below. But believing souls shall be clothed with garments of praise, with robes of righteousness and glory. The present graces and comforts of the Spirit are earnests of everlasting grace and comfort. And though God is with us here, by his Spirit, and in his ordinances, yet we are not with him as we hope to be. Faith is for this world, and sight is for the other world. It is our duty, and it will be our interest, to walk by faith, till we live by sight. This shows clearly the happiness to be enjoyed by the souls of believers when absent from the body, and where Jesus makes known his glorious presence. We are related to the body and to the Lord; each claims a part in us. But how much more powerfully the Lord pleads for having the soul of the believer closely united with himself! Thou art one of the souls I have loved and chosen; one of those given to me. What is death, as an object of fear, compared with being absent from the Lord!

Pulpit Commentary - http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-3.htm
Verse 3. - If so be that. The verse may be rendered, "If, that is, being clothed, we shall not be found naked." The word "naked" must then mean "bodiless," and the reference will be to those whom, at his coming, Christ shall find clothed in these mortal bodies, and not separated from them, i.e. quick and not dead (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 1 Corinthians 15:51). This seems to be the simplest and most natural of the multitude of strange interpretations with which the pages of commentators are filled. It is true that the aorist endusamenoi, means literally, "having clothed ourselves," and that, in taking this meaning, we should have expected the perfect participle endedumenoi, having been clothed. If this be thought an insuperable difficulty, we must suppose the verse to mean "If, that is, in reality we shall be found [at Christ's coming] after having put on some intermediate body, and therefore not as mere disembodied spirits." But there is no allusion in Scripture to any intermediate body, nor is any gleam of light shed on the mode of life among the dead between death and resurrection, though the Church rejects the dream of Psychopannychia, or an interval of unconscious sleep. The uncertainty of the meaning is increased by two various readings, ei per instead of ei ge, which latter expresses greater doubt about the matter; and ekdusamenoi (D, F, G), which would mean "if in reality, after unclothing ourselves [i.e. after 'shuffling off this mortal coil'], we shall not be found naked." This seems to be the conjecture of some puzzled copyists, who did not see that a contrast, and not a coincidence, between the two expressions is intended. If this reading were correct, it would mean, as Chrysostom says, "Even if we would lay aside the body. we shall not there be presented without a body, but with the same body which has then become incorruptible." It is quite untenable to make "clothed" mean "clothed with righteousness," as Olshausen does. In the Talmud, 'Shabbath' (f. 152, 2), the righteous are compared to men who keep from stain the robes given them by a king (i.e. their bodies), which robes the king deposits in his treasury and sends the wearers away (bodiless) in peace; but foolish servants stain these robes, and the king sends the robes to the wash, and the wearers in prison.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - http://biblehub.com/2_corinthians/5-3.htm
If so be that being clothed,.... This supposition is made with respect to the saints who shall be alive at Christ's second coming, who will not be stripped of their bodies, and so will "not be found naked", or disembodied, and shall have a glory at once put upon them, both soul and body; or these words are an inference from the saints' present clothing, to their future clothing, thus; "seeing we are clothed", have not only put on the new man, and are clothed and adorned with the graces of the Spirit, but are arrayed with the best robe, the wedding garment, the robe of Christ's righteousness,

we shall not be found naked; but shall be clothed upon with the heavenly glory, as soon as we are dismissed from hence. Some read these words as a wish, "O that we were clothed, that we might not be found naked!" and so is expressive of one of the sighs, and groans, and earnest desires of the saints in their present situation after the glories of another world.

 

[By Grace]

It looks like commentary can't even decide. This is sad. What should we make of this. 2 Cor 5:3.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary - Believes in a temporary heaven
Pulpit Commentary - Believes scripture is referring to the first resurrection
Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - Believes scripture is referring to the first resurrection

we shall not be found naked; but shall be clothed upon with the heavenly glory, as soon as we are dismissed from hence. Some read these words as a wish, "O that we were clothed, that we might not be found naked!" and so is expressive of one of the sighs, and groans, and earnest desires of the saints in their present situation after the glories of another world.

Are you aware that there is a difference between a TRANSLATION and a COMMENTARY?

You see, all of the commentaries above are devotional commentaries, and NOT exegetical commentaries, therefore you are attempting to prove something that is completely unrelated to either the questions I asked you or the proper translation of that verse.

Here are two example of an exegetical commentary You see it usws the original Greek words

The third verse states the great gain which lies in the fulfilment of this hope: “Since, of course, being clothed [with this new body], we shall not be found naked [i. e., without any body].” I cannot think, especially looking on to ver. 4, that these two verses (2 and 3) mean anything else than that Paul longs for Christ to come before death. If Christ comes first, the Apostle will receive the new body by the transformation, instead of the putting off, of the old; he will, so to speak, put it on above the old; he will be spared the shuddering fear of dying; he will not know what it is to have the old tent taken down, and to be left houseless and naked.​

Denney, J. (1903). The Second Epistle to the Corinthians. In W. Robertson Nicoll (Ed.), The Expositor’s Bible: Luke to Galatians (Vol. 5, p. 760). Hartford, CT: S.S. Scranton Co.

Special points.—Paul believed in a glorious future life (v. 1). In comparison with our present life, the future is so glorious that one should earnestly desire it (v. 2).
What did Paul mean by being “found naked” (v. 3)? A certain answer is not possible. Plato believed that when a man died, the soul, “naked of the body,” lived on. Paul did not accept this; he believed the body was an essential part of man. Disembodied existence had no more appeal to him than it does to us.

Did he believe in a resurrection immediately after death? Verse 4 seems to imply this. Yet, 1 Corinthians 15:22–23 clearly places the resurrection at the time of Christ’s final coming. That plain statement must guide us in our interpretation of this verse. Paul really hoped that Christ would come while he still lived. It was the further clothing that he longed for.
What about Christians who die before Christ comes? What kind of life do they now have? Paul said nothing about that here; it is doubtful that he ever speculated about it. Any answer must be speculative; the New Testament does not tell us. It does teach that Christians who die go at once to be with the Lord. Their life with him is more blessed than life on earth (Rev. 14:13).​

Fisher, F., L. (1972). 2 Corinthians. In H. F. Paschall & H. H. Hobbs (Eds.), The teacher’s Bible commentary (pp. 735–736). Nashville: Broadman and Holman Publishers.



This is a foot note from the translators of the English Standard Version of the Bible:

5:2–4 Paul groans for the resurrection (i.e., being further clothed; cf. v. 1) in order to not be found naked or unclothed, which likely refers to the intermediate state in which believers’ spirits are with God but they do not yet enjoy their resurrected bodies.​

Crossway Bibles. (2008). The ESV Study Bible (p. 2229). Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles.

You may not know it, but there is a book called a Critical Apparatus that takes EVERY known variation of EVERY single verse in the NT. Some verses do not have a scribal gloss of one sort of another, others do.In this case before us, the Critical Apparatus (now looking at over 6000 source documents we have for the entire NT) shows that the word translated "naked" γυμνός, is the exact word that the APOSTLE Paul used when he wrote the letter.

Of course, I do not expect you to know all that stuff, but do you not think that it is better to delve nto the original languages of the Greek NT than to pick and choose some English commentaries which do not use Greek?

Do you plan on answering those 5 questions I asked you earlier?

 

[OzSpen]

I believe soul sleep is truth, because we are not walking around as breath in the third heaven. Let's discuss.

The eyes, ears, brain, arms and legs are all connected to our bodies, and our bodies will be resurrected at the first resurrection. Don't you need eyes, ears, a brain, arms and legs to be in relationship with Jesus in heaven? There is only one resurrection for your body and soul, and that's the first resurrection. The first resurrection is biblical, spirit ghosts are not. The third heaven where Jesus resides right now is not reserved for human spirits. It is only reserved for the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit to heal, convict and obtain sovereignty over the world. Nothing more. 2 Cor 5:3, Eccl 12:7, Rev 20:4-6 does not say that after you die you automatically spring to life. No, it's saying they come to life specifically after the first resurrection and the great white throne. This is your time line. The Bible gives us a time line of when this occurs, but everybody seems to want to ignore this.

2 Cor 5:3 (Edit, 2 Cor 5:3, NLT. Obadiah) For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies.

Eccl 12:7 is referring to your spirit. Your spirit is the breath of God, it is breath. It is not ghostly figures walking around like Hollywood movies portray it. God is not saying that when you die you are walking around the third heaven as breath, that's ludicrous. Breath is a substance FROM GOD that gave your soul and body life! Without your body, breath does not exist. Eccl 12:7 is simply God taking back what is his, and that is HIS breath given to us as a gift. If people say you go straight to heaven after you die then wouldn't you need a brain to talk to Jesus? Wouldn't you need arms and legs to run and hug Jesus?? Wouldn't you need eyes and ears to SEE and HEAR Jesus! You need a brain, eyes, ears, arms and legs to do these things. And our brain, eyes, ears, arms and legs are connected to our body which will be resurrected at the first resurrection.

Eccl 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Rev 20:4-6 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

DRS,

Why don't you provide us all with your concise definition of 'soul sleep' so that we all know the topic we are discussing? You claim 'soul sleep is truth' but if you don't define soul sleep carefully, I don't know how to respond to your teaching.

Thanks a million,
Oz

 

[DRS81]

DRS,

Why don't you provide us all with your concise definition of 'soul sleep' so that we all know the topic we are discussing? You claim 'soul sleep is truth' but if you don't define soul sleep carefully, I don't know how to respond to your teaching.

Thanks a million,
Oz

To me, soul sleep is after you die your spirit (your breath) goes back to God who gave it Eccl 12:7 while your soul rests inside your body without consciousness in your grave. I believe your soul rests with your body because the breath of life is no longer active in you because of Eccl 12:7. Your soul and body rests in the grave until the first resurrection. At the first resurrection you then come to life. Your spirit, soul and body are reunited with God once and for all.

 

[Gregg]

Can you sum up what this means in your own words. My body of flesh is severed from my heart? Wha?

For give my lack of communication skills; I am inarticulate at best.

IMHU when a man is born again, his body of flesh is severed from his heart [from his soul and spirit]. His body may die someday, but the death of the body has no influence on the remainder of his being as he is alive in Christ, a member of the body of Christ.

I am only suggesting that our soul remains with our spirit after physical death.

Please provide a scripture that supports the soul remaining with the body after death, or conversely that the soul does not accompany the spirit after death.

 

[DRS81]

Please provide a scripture that supports the soul remaining with the body after death, or conversely that the soul does not accompany the spirit after death.

No worries, you said it well.

I would think Gen 2:7 and Eccl 12:7 represent the soul resting with the body but the spirit going back to God.
Notice the reason we have a soul is because God breathed his spirit into us, the breath of life.
So when God takes back the breath of life our soul is no longer active.
The only reason we have a soul is because of the breath of life.
Man originated from dust, and the dust returns to the earth.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJB)
Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (KJB)

 

[OzSpen]

To me, soul sleep is after you die your spirit (your breath) goes back to God who gave it Eccl 12:7 while your soul rests inside your body without consciousness in your grave. I believe your soul rests with your body because the breath of life is no longer active in you because of Eccl 12:7. Your soul and body rests in the grave until the first resurrection. At the first resurrection you then come to life. Your spirit, soul and body are reunited with God once and for all.

Thanks DRS81 for your definition. You use Eccl 12:7 (ESV) to support your views. This verse in context reads:

they are afraid also of what is high, and terrors are in the way; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along, and desire fails, because man is going to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets— 6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern, 7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it. 8 Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher; all is vanity (Eccl 12:5-8 ESV).​

I would like some clarification:

1. How do you know it is the 'breath' and not the unseen 'spirit' that returns to God according to Eccl 12:7 (ESV)?
2. Where in this verse or anywhere else in the Bible does it teach what you states, 'your soul rests inside your body without consciousness in your grave'?
3. You stated, 'I believe your soul rests with your body'. So that is your 'belief'. However, where is that stated in the text?
4. Where is the biblical evidence for your statement, 'Your soul and body rests in the grave until the first resurrection'?
5. What is the biblical support for your statement, 'At the first resurrection you then come to life. Your spirit, soul and body are reunited with God once and for all'?

I'm happy for you to deal with these points one point at a time to provide open discussion/debate on this forum.

Oz

 

[gr8grace3]

To me, soul sleep is after you die your spirit (your breath) goes back to God who gave it Eccl 12:7 while your soul rests inside your body without consciousness in your grave. I believe your soul rests with your body because the breath of life is no longer active in you because of Eccl 12:7. Your soul and body rests in the grave until the first resurrection. At the first resurrection you then come to life. Your spirit, soul and body are reunited with God once and for all.

Ecc 3:21 ~~21 Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

 

[gr8grace3]

No worries, you said it well.

I would think Gen 2:7 and Eccl 12:7 represent the soul resting with the body but the spirit going back to God.
Notice the reason we have a soul is because God breathed his spirit into us, the breath of life.
So when God takes back the breath of life our soul is no longer active.
The only reason we have a soul is because of the breath of life.
Man originated from dust, and the dust returns to the earth.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJB)
Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (KJB)

DRS81, We have to be careful going to Ecclesiastes to form doctrines. Ecclesiastes is a "desperate Journey" for Solomon. 9 times out of 10 this is a book that Shows Solomon in his "human viewpoint." The Proverbs show his "Divine viewpoint."

This is why we have things like this:

Ecc 3:21 ~~ Who knows whether the spirit of man goes upward and the spirit of the beast goes down into the earth?

Eccl 12:7~~ Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (KJB)

 

[DRS81]

I would like some clarification:

1. How do you know it is the 'breath' and not the unseen 'spirit' that returns to God according to Eccl 12:7 (ESV)?
2. Where in this verse or anywhere else in the Bible does it teach what you states, 'your soul rests inside your body without consciousness in your grave'?
3. You stated, 'I believe your soul rests with your body'. So that is your 'belief'. However, where is that stated in the text?
4. Where is the biblical evidence for your statement, 'Your soul and body rests in the grave until the first resurrection'?
5. What is the biblical support for your statement, 'At the first resurrection you then come to life. Your spirit, soul and body are reunited with God once and for all'?

I'm happy for you to deal with these points one point at a time to provide open discussion/debate on this forum.

Oz

1. It is the breath because Gen 2:7 says God's spirit is the breath of life. God is spirit. God's spirit is unseen, also true.
2. I'm going back to Gen 2:7.
3. Since our spirit is simply breath that goes back to God then our soul dies with our body. Our spirit and soul also have different functions. Our spirit is the breath that makes up our communion, conscience and intuition and our soul makes up our will, mind and emotions. The body is the "world-consciousness," the soul is the "self-consciousness," and the spirit is the "God-consciousness."
4. It says we come to life in Rev 20:4-6. Coming to life as in we were sleeping.
5. Rev 20:4-6 - Your soul and body come to life at the first resurrection and re-connect with your spirit breath that is already with God. Since God breathed life into man in the beginning, then he will simply do the same at the first resurrection. God breathing life back into your soul and body is your spirit re-connecting with yourself. The breath of life.

How do these believers and nonbelievers come back to life in Rev 20:4-6? God will breathe into them just like he did when he formed man from dust. He did it once and he will do it again at the first resurrection. And God breathing life into us again is our spirit re-connecting with our body and soul. It all comes together at once. Our spirit, soul and body re-connect inside our new immortal bodies. - DRS81

(Edited, Tos 2.7 Obadiah)

DRS81, We have to be careful going to Ecclesiastes to form doctrines. Ecclesiastes is a "desperate Journey" for Solomon. 9 times out of 10 this is a book that Shows Solomon in his "human viewpoint." The Proverbs show his "Divine viewpoint."

Keep in mind though, i am using Gen 2:7 to back me up.

 

[OzSpen]

1. It is the breath because Gen 2:7 says God's spirit is the breath of life. God is spirit. God's spirit is unseen, also true.
2. I'm going back to Gen 2:7.
3. Since our spirit is simply breath that goes back to God then our soul dies with our body. Our spirit and soul also have different functions. Our spirit is the breath that makes up our communion, conscience and intuition and our soul makes up our will, mind and emotions. The body is the "world-consciousness," the soul is the "self-consciousness," and the spirit is the "God-consciousness."
4. It says we come to life in Rev 20:4-6. Coming to life as in we were sleeping.
5. Rev 20:4-6 - Your soul and body come to life at the first resurrection and re-connect with your spirit breath that is already with God. Since God breathed life into man in the beginning, then he will simply do the same at the first resurrection. God breathing life back into your soul and body is your spirit re-connecting with yourself. The breath of life.

How do these believers and nonbelievers come back to life in Rev 20:4-6? God will breathe into them just like he did when he formed man from dust. He did it once and he will do it again at the first resurrection. And God breathing life into us again is our spirit re-connecting with our body and soul. It all comes together at once. Our spirit, soul and body re-connect inside our new immortal bodies. - DRS81

(Edited, Tos 2.7 Obadiah)

Keep in mind though, i am using Gen 2:7 to back me up.

You are depending on Gen 2:7 (ESV) alright but it does not state what you want it to state. It reads, 'Then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature' (Gen 2:7 ESV).

OT commentator, H C Leupold, explained the meaning of this verse,

'Nor can we for a moment hold that air or human breath was what God breathed into man's nostrils. It was His own vital breath.... Much as we may be inclined to claim that the distinctive element in man's creation is the "breath of life" breathed into his nostrils, this is a supposition that cannot be maintained. For the expression involved, nishmath chayyim, is practically the same as that used in 7:22 with reference to all life that perished in the flood, the only exception being that the phrase is altered to "the breath of the spirit of life" (nishmath ruach chayyim). Not this breath itself but the manner of its impartation indicates man's dignity. So also the claim that man became "a living being," or literally, "a living soul," (A. V.) does not point to the distinguishing glory of man. For the same expression is used of other animate beings in 1:24. It must be remembered that the author is at this point chiefly reporting the fact that this lifeless clay became animate by the breath of the Almighty. The fact that man is a superior being is indicated by the manner in which this is done, and this was already amply indicated before by the divine "image" (1:26). The expression "living being" employs the term nephesh, "soul," because the soul is the animate thing in man. God's Spirit animates the soul, though in a higher sense then is the case with the soul of beasts. Koenig correctly defines: "According to 2:7 the soul is that portion of the spirit which is breathed into man." the neshamah is "only the life breath" (Keil); cf. 1 Kings 17:17' (Leupold 1942:116-117).​

Seems to me that you are making Gen 2:7 (ESV) mean less than what it says. You want it to mean neshamah, which is life breath. However, Gen 2:7 includes these dimensions in human beings from the beginning of creation: All human beings have neshamah, which is life breath, AND nephesh, which is soul.

I find your understanding of a human being from Gen 2:7 (ESV) to be deficient, based on the Hebrew language used.

Therefore, our spirit is not simply breath - which is contrary to your view. Of course the breath ceases at death, but the nephesh, spirit, returns to God who gave it, according to Eccl. 12:7 (ESV). This is a powerful reminder that at death the nephesh, the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Works consulted
Leupold, H C 1942. Exposition of Genesis, vol 1, chs 1-19. London: Evangelical Press (made available from The Wartburg Press).

 

[follower]

.... hmmm..... 'time' wise even though the spirit returns to Yhvh Who gave it, since 'time' is so totally different from the Creator's point of view than the world's point of view,
perhaps, unless Scripture says distinctly otherwise (which it may, I haven't discovered one way or the other yet)
the spirit may return to Yhvh
when Yhvh decides for it to. (i.e.when? - any time from immediately to any time later; what is always in line with all of Scripture?)

likewise, Yeshua said of some in the Gospels who 'died' that they are 'asleep' ; apparently in Scripture also, after Yeshua the passing of those who are His changed from being called 'dying' to being called 'falling asleep' (note that believers have already died with Him upon their immersion in His Name and/or belief in Him and/or being born from above by the Will of Abba)..... i.e. a Wonderful, Delightful Hope and Expectation with no doubt nor fear nor power(of death) over the believer anymore.

 

[for_his_glory]

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Being naked in Revelation 16:15 and the thief means that if we are not prepared for the return of Christ as not being clothed in Gods righteousness and think we have plenty of time before Christ returns we are only fooling ourselves as no one knows the hour or day of Christ return and further more we are not even promised the next second of breath. Jesus has never returned for anyone after His ascending to sit at the right hand of the Father being our mediator before God. The resurrection of the dead has not happened yet as it is only that breath of God that returns back to Him when this physical body returns to the dust of the ground from where it came from. No one is resurrected until the one and only return of Christ who calls His Bride to meet Him in the air and then forever we will be with Him in all of Gods glory.

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Here dust + breath from God = a living soul. When the flesh dies physically it returns back to the dust of the ground and our soul is preserved with God for final judgment.

Genesis 3:19 in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Ecc 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

We return to the dust of the ground when this physical body dies and our breath/soul returns to God as we wait for Gods final judgment.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Our soul can never die and is preserved until Gods final judgment at the end of time.

1Thessalonians 4:
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

No one has ever entered the third Heaven where God sits on His throne. Third Heaven is where God and the holy angels and spirits of just men dwell. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4; 1Kings 8:27; Psalms 2:4.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ruach, the Hebrew word for spirit here, means "breath" or "wind" as well as "spirit".

Revelation 22:
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Jesus only comes once and at that time will bring His reward to those of the first resurrected who are made righteous by that of Gods grace. The second resurrection are those who have rejected Gods grace and their reward is that of an eternity in the lake of fire. 1Corinthians Chapter 15; Revelation 20:6, 15.

 

[By Grace]

.... hmmm..... 'time' wise even though the spirit returns to Yhvh Who gave it, since 'time' is so totally different from the Creator's point of view than the world's point of view,
perhaps, unless Scripture says distinctly otherwise (which it may, I haven't discovered one way or the other yet)
the spirit may return to Yhvh
when Yhvh decides for it to. (i.e.when? - any time from immediately to any time later; what is always in line with all of Scripture?)

likewise, Yeshua said of some in the Gospels who 'died' that they are 'asleep' ; apparently in Scripture also, after Yeshua the passing of those who are His changed from being called 'dying' to being called 'falling asleep' (note that believers have already died with Him upon their immersion in His Name and/or belief in Him and/or being born from above by the Will of Abba)..... i.e. a Wonderful, Delightful Hope and Expectation with no doubt nor fear nor power(of death) over the believer anymore.

PART ONE
Here is an excerpt from an excellent lecture by Herman Hokesema, Dutch Reformed theologian and pastor, It is good to notice that he states that the logical outcome of such a belief is the doctrine of Universalism, and that Universalism is of two different sorts: absolute universalism and hypothetical universalism, And that is the essence of the argument of those who oppose the doctrine of soul skeep. He says it better than me, so I will permit him to speak:

What is the soul? The soul is the seat of mind and will, which are the two faculties of the soul. Without the brain, there would be no mind, and there would be no will. There would be no sensation or perception. The brain is the physical aspect of the soul, while the soul itself is the intellect and will.

Inside one more circle is what the Bible calls the spirit of man. The spirit of man is that which God originally created to be adapted to Him. The spirit of man is the highest part of him, the center of his being.

Now imagine one dot in the center of all those circles. That center of it all is the person. That is what I call my I, the I that always remains the same and never changes. I was born as a little baby. I grew up. I learned my trade in the old country. I came to this country. I went to school to study for the ministry. I graduated. I became a minister of the gospel. I had all kinds of troubles, and still have, because I preach the truth. I, I, I: the same I. That I never changes. My soul changed; my body changed; my mind changed; my intellect changed; my will changed. But I am always the same. And presently, beloved, I die.

I die. What does that mean? That means that I---the same I that was born almost 70 years ago, the same I that lived in the changeable nature that same I now passes through another transformation. That is death. Death is, after all, nothing but atransformation. Death is not annihilation. Death is a transformation from one state to another, just as the Lord speaks of the seed that falls into the earth and dies and then brings forth much fruit. That death of the seed, you understand, does not mean that the seed disappears. Oh, no! A seed of wheat that you plant in the earth stays there and is transformed in the earth. It does not disappear. It is so transformed that the living kernel sprouts up and grows into a fully developed wheat plant. So is death, death both for the righteous and the wicked. But I am speaking now particularly of the death of the righteous. Death is a mystery. but death nevertheless means a transformation.

What transformation? Negatively, the transformation according to which I--the same I--am "absent from the body." Do you understand? The apostle says in II Corinthians 5:1, "We know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved...." That is the negative side of the transformation we call death. This tabernacle is going to be dissolved. This tabernacle in which I live, in which I was born, in which I am speaking to you tonight, is going to be dissolved. That is, the senses are going to disappear: the eye, the ear, the nose, the smell, the taste, the touch. It is all going to disappear through death. It is going to disappear as far as I am concerned. And the nervous system, the soul side of the body, is going to dissolve. Also the brain, the physical side of the soul, is going to be dissolved. All that will be left is a transformed soul and a transformed spirit transformed in such a way that instead of seeing earthly things, I will see heavenly things. Instead of sensing with whatever senses I may have on earth, in heaven I will sense, I will taste, I will feel heavenly things. Concretely, it means that instead of seeing the world and hearing the world and all things in the world, I will see Christ and hear Christ and be with Him, "which is far better," says the apostle Paul. It is that kind of transformation.

But do you not see that this presents a problem? Do you not see that we cannot possibly conceive of a spirit, of an I, of a person--of a human person--without a body? Do you not see that without my body, I am blind, I am deaf, I am senseless? Besides. do you not understand that though we can speak of these things at present while we are still in the earthly house of this tabernacle, we can never quite understand what heaven will be the present heaven?

Universalism

All kinds of different answers--mostly philosophical--have been given concerning that problem. I will mention a few of them. There are the views of "universalism." Universalism is of two kinds: hypothetical universalism and absolute universalism.

Hypothetical universalismmeans that the soul after death will have a second chance. Having experienced death, the pains and sorrow and suffering of death, that soul will be induced to convert itself and come to Christ. That was the idea of the late English preacher Campbell Morgan. I will never forget the day I was at school and he lectured, or rather preached, on the text the end of which is, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me" (John 12:32). Campbell Morgan had the habit of preaching exactly one hour. He would be on the platform for one hour, and when the hour was finished, he simply quit. This text was the end of the passage on which he spoke, and I was waiting for him to explain the verse. Finally, about five minutes to twelve--he spoke from eleven to twelve--he said this: "Now I don't care what you believe, whether you are Lutheran or Calvinist or Arminian. That is not my concern. I'll simply tell you exactly what the text means." Then he said that the text means this, that, son somehow or other, all men that have ever lived in the world or that shall still live in the world will have a chance to come to Christ. That is hypothetical universalism. After death, the soul shall have another chance to be saved. and if that chance is neglected, that soul will then go to hell.

Strict absolute universalism means that everybody will finally be saved. According to this view, God is the Father of all men. All men, simply by virtue of the fact that they are men, are the children of God. In one way or another all men will in the end be saved. Only the most liberal in the history of the church have held to this position.​

Rather than make one long post--which few will read, I make two shorter ones